(Article)NHL goalie rankings: Is Luongo still elite?

[Papayas]

You do know that the Conn Smythe isn't just given to a player on the winning team? And we got to game 7 not because of the two 1-0 shutouts but because of Luongo's poor play in Boston. We were up 2-0 and 3-2 and choked our way to game 7. It's an embarrassment since we are 1 of 4 teams out 47 to have 2-0 series lead in the SCF to lose. That's a pretty elite club of chokers.

You can't shovel the stench of the Boston games away from Luongo and there is no way he would've won the Conn Smythe if we had won game 7 1-0 as Thomas would still have only allowed 9 goals to Luongo's 17 in your scenario. The Conn Smythe was going to Thomas win or lose that series. He kept Boston in it for all seven games whereas Luongo only did it for four in your scenario. Either way it's a moot point like you say as Thomas was the Vezina winning, Conn Smythe winning and Stanley Cup winning goaltender easily dispatching our Jenning winning and Presidents winning goaltender.

Ultimately I guess we'll have to agree to disagree but I found the notion of Luongo winning the Conn Smyhte laughable given his poor performances in Boston.

hahahahahahahaha.. We got to game 7 not because of two shut outs when we had scored a combine of 8 goals in 7 games, but because Luongo played poorly.

how on earth do you think the team would make it to game 7 with that kind of scoring without Luong's 2 shut out, one happened in game 5?

We were the only cup final team in history who actually had a series lead for two times when the opposite team had outscored us by nearly two times.

I know there are things call opinions.. but this is just wrong. This is what's wrong with the fan base in vancouver nowaday. The sense of entitlement is getting to a ridiculous level that they actually think the team should have win a cup regardless of how badly they played.

[King Heffy]

hahahahahahahaha.. We got to game 7 not because of two shut outs when we had scored a combine of 8 goals in 7 games, but because Luongo played poorly.

how on earth do you think the team would make it to game 7 with that kind of scoring without Luong's 2 shut out, one happened in game 5?

We were the only cup final team in history who actually had a series lead for two times when the opposite team had outscored us by nearly two times.

I know there are things call opinions.. but this is just wrong. This is what's wrong with the fan base in vancouver nowaday. The sense of entitlement is getting to a ridiculous level that they actually think the team should have win a cup regardless of how badly they played.

Luongo let the Bruins back into the series by providing some of the worst playoff goaltending in the history of the league. He was an absolute sieve in Boston and it's laughable to expect offense when the players know that as soon as they take any risks Luongo will be fishing another softie out of his net.

[We Are All Cynics]

how does the series come down to the netminder's duel when Boston outscored the canucks by 3 times while abusing them physically and mentally to the point where most of our core players are injured?

if the only way we can win the serie was that our goaltender has to play lightout for 4 games, then we shouldn't even have a discussion on blaming our goalie.

You talked about the only way we can win the boston series was that our goaltender has to play consistently light out. That is a pretty outrageous logic since you don't seem to think our forward and defensman should perform to win the cup. You put all the pressure and blame to our goaltender like it's a common practice that stanley cup winning teams win because of their goaltenders, not because of the team play.

You also mentioned Tim thomas and how he kept the game close..but you didn't look at how the team played in the series, nor you look at how many goals he let in before Boston reached the SCF. Without his team actually scoring when he let in bad goals, the Boston would not even make it out of the first round, who he gave up a game tying goal with 2 mins left in the third period.

What I mentioned was that series are unique. Some may be firefights, other defensive and others a outright duel between netminders. Tha's what I saw the 2011 SCF as. Luongo stymied Boston the first three games in Vancouver only allowing 2 goals but at the same time Thomas kept Boston in it to the final whistle or final goal. Luongo can't make that boast in the Boston games. Thomas played great shutting us out for a game and only coughing up a goal or two in the others whereas Luongo let the floodgates open in game 3, let surprisingly awful goal in game 3 and ended the game fro the Canucks starting at the five minute mark of game 6. Game 7 could only have been one if it was close not necessarily 1-0 but maybe 2-1 even. As for the offense and defense, they played their part the best they could. We shelled Thomas with 38-41 shots in the Boston games but Thomas was giving nothing. Not so for Lu.

Again I said you can't look at previous series influencing others. Each series is like a clean slate and how it defines itself may be different that previous incarnations the teams played before. Yes Thomas let in the GTG much like Luongo let in the GTG in their respective first round series but that's my point. Those series are a different flavour to the one that was the SCF. It came down to netminders as seen in the first two games. Both played at the same level. Both games were in reach for both clubs and bot goaltenders were stellar. Once it switched to Boston however Luongo couldn't match Thomas anymore and let in 12 goals in 2 games compared to Thomas letting in only 1.

It's why the Conn Smythe didn't go to a player but a netminder. It wasn't offense or defense that won the Cup for Boston, it was Thomas that gave them that chance every game to get the job done.

[Nino]

care to explain what do you mean when you say "when it matters?"

How about game 4 on the road when you looked like Swiss cheese the game before and the momentum in the series looks to be swinging to the other team. Your team needs a strong goaltending night to regain there confidence or it could be over? I'd call that a game that matters more then most, you wouldn't? Lou comes out with a strong game in that one and the Canucks have a cup right now.

[Papayas]

How about game 4 on the road when you looked like Swiss cheese the game before and the momentum in the series looks to be swinging to the other team. Your team needs a strong goaltending night to regain there confidence or it could be over? I'd call that a game that matters more then most, you wouldn't? Lou comes out with a strong game in that one and the Canucks have a cup right now.

so...... game 1 and 2 wasn't a game that matter more than others cos if you lose in those 2 games, your team will be in a 0-2 craphole in a SCF?

How about game 5 of the SCF when the winner will have a 3-2 lead of the series? that game didn't matter?

So what is "a game that matters the most?"... cos from what you said so far, you still tend to lead me believe it's the games where the team lose.....

In fact, losing any game in the playoff would grant your opponents momentums... so what is your point?

[We Are All Cynics]

hahahahahahahaha.. We got to game 7 not because of two shut outs when we had scored a combine of 8 goals in 7 games, but because Luongo played poorly.

how on earth do you think the team would make it to game 7 with that kind of scoring without Luongo's 2 shut outs, one happened in game 5?

We were the only cup final team in history who actually had a series lead for two times when the opposite team had outscored us by nearly two times.

I know there are things call opinions.. but this is just wrong. This is what's wrong with the fan base in vancouver nowaday. The sense of entitlement is getting to a ridiculous level that they actually think the team should have win a cup regardless of how badly they played.

I'm sorry you feel your opinion is wrong. Luongo blew a 2-0 series lead and 3-2 series lead to get to game 7. The 8 goals in 7 games defense is an excuse. It doesn't uncover the truth about the games in Boston where if Luongo had played like Thomas he wouldn't have let 8 by but kept it potentially close enough (1 goal deficit) to win. Not deflate the team with bunches of goals he did, soft and questionable ones and quick three goals that cost us game 6.

The 8 goals in 7 games just goes to show how spectacular Thomas and why he won the Cup and Conn Smythe while Luongo makes it in the stats book for two 1-0 shutouts, most goals scored against in a SCF game as well as fastest 4 goals scored in a SCF game.

And you mistake me as well. I don't feel entitled to a Cup. Not anymore. I used to believe Luongo was capable of giving us a chance every game but after several years of this and his struggles I'm not optimistic anymore. I'm keeping it simple and just going to enjoy Canucks hockey for as long as they can play in a season before bowing out. But I have no anticipation, expectation or even excitement of a Cup anymore. Our chance was 2011 and since we've been slowly declining every year trading high prospects away that could've helped and not replacing losses like Ehrhoff or Salo we're just postponing an inevitable rebuild.

[Nino]

so...... game 1 and 2 wasn't a game that matter more than others cos if you lose in those 2 games, your team will be in a 0-2 craphole in a SCF?

How about game 5 of the SCF when the winner will have a 3-2 lead of the series? that game didn't matter?

So what is "a game that matters the most?"... cos from what you said so far, you still tend to lead me believe it's the games where the team lose.....

In fact, losing any game in the playoff would grant your opponents momentums... so what is your point?

I was just giving you an example of a game that mattered more then most, and it was like it or not. If you just get shelled as a goalie you need to come out strong and gain you teams confidence back as well as stop the momentum the other team is gaining. Sure there are other important games but that was a big game for Lou.

[Benchsplinters]

You compared the three goalies and consider Quick and Lundqvist elite over Luongo. In reading their stats very closely all three are close to each other. The fact that Luongo has been in the league for about 6 more seasons suggests he has been consistent throughout his tenure in the NHL.

If one defines elite, you would think the margin between Quick/Lindqvist vs Luongo as it relates to the meaning of the word would not be so close.

Yes I still concluded that Luongo is an elite goalie. I also agree that he has demonstrated some better moments in his creer than he showed his fans in the Boston series and some games with Chicago.

However, that is now all water under the bridge. The question will now be how will he perform for a new coach, probably in a new system and learn from the lesson he has weathered throughout his turmoils in Vancouver. I really hope he has gone to school, altered his ego somewhat and shows how much of a professional and elite goaltender he really is.

Luuuuu now has to prove himself but I would also find it fair to let him have that opportunity before he is judged once again.

Good luck to him and the future of our Vancouver Canucks hockey team.

[Papayas]

I'm sorry you feel your opinion is wrong. Luongo blew a 2-0 series lead and 3-2 series lead to get to game 7. The 8 goals in 7 games defense is an excuse. It doesn't uncover the truth about the games in Boston where if Luongo had played like Thomas he wouldn't have let 8 by but kept it potentially close enough (1 goal deficit) to win. Not deflate the team with bunches of goals he did, soft and questionable ones and quick three goals that cost us game 6.

The 8 goals in 7 games just goes to show how spectacular Thomas and why he won the Cup and Conn Smythe while Luongo makes it in the stats book for two 1-0 shutouts, most goals scored against in a SCF game as well as fastest 4 goals scored in a SCF game.

And you mistake me as well. I don't feel entitled to a Cup. Not anymore. I used to believe Luongo was capable of giving us a chance every game but after several years of this and his struggles I'm not optimistic anymore. I'm keeping it simple and just going to enjoy Canucks hockey for as long as they can play in a season before bowing out. But I have no anticipation, expectation or even excitement of a Cup anymore. Our chance was 2011 and since we've been slowly declining every year trading high prospects away that could've helped and not replacing losses like Ehrhoff or Salo we're just postponing an inevitable rebuild.

all this talks, and you still haven't explain how would you expect the team to reach the game 7 with 8 goals in total without Luongo posting those 2 shut outs...

because of that, i am out. You have your mind set on something, and no stat/logical evidences will convince you otherwise. It's a ridiculous thing that I have to ask someone why they think the team with that kind of scoring can get to game 7 in the first place... I am not going to waste anymore time in a circular argument with you.

[Papayas]

I was just giving you an example of a game that mattered more then most, and it was like it or not. If you just get shelled as a goalie you need to come out strong and gain you teams confidence back as well as stop the momentum the other team is gaining. Sure there are other important games but that was a big game for Lou.

and i just told you that if the team had lost game 1 and 2 in the SCF, then suddenly those games will matter more than the victories we had according to your logic.

That comes back to my point where your logic shows that only games that we lose would matter, and the game we 've won would just be another game.

game 5 was a pretty important game that matters, so does game 1 and 2.. The fact is each game in the playoff are equally as important. The fact that you can't understand this makes you a bitter fans who is always angry at our star players because believe it or not, teams would lose from time to time especially in the playoff.

If you think Luongo can't perform when it matters the most, answer this... How important do you think that game 5 was?

[We Are All Cynics]

It just must burn people here that Luongo isn't a lock for Sochi like Crosby was. I'd wonder why that is except I think Luongo's play has done that. I think there are concerns about him from Team Canada. Some they've seen first hand in the Olympics but more with the drama on our team.

He lost the Stanley Cup in part due to his Jekyll and Hyde performances. He lost his starting job to Schneider and became our back-up. His performances in the regular season have been up and down at times. One game he can post a shut out but the next game he's coughed up four goals before the five minute mark of the first period like when Buffalo came to visit. No one in the league wants to take on Luongo's contract despite it being a franchise goaltender. There's just too many unknowns and concerns on Luongo and other goaltenders that warrant a look and have less baggage to help Team Canada repeat.

Personally Lu should be a back-up as he's more popular when he is and the pressure is off. He just doesn't seem to handle the starter job too well. And since it'll be on the road I don't like Lu's chances.

[Nino]

and i just told you that if the team had lost game 1 and 2 in the SCF, then suddenly those games will matter more than the victories we had according to your logic.

That comes back to my point where your logic shows that only games that we lose would matter, and the game we 've won would just be another game.

game 5 was a pretty important game that matters, so does game 1 and 2.. The fact is each game in the playoff are equally as important. The fact that you can't understand this makes you a bitter fans who is always angry at our star players because believe it or not, teams would lose from time to time especially in the playoff.

If you think Luongo can't perform when it matters the most, answer this... How important do you think that game 5 was?

I cut out my last post because the resonance is still relevant, here it is.

I was just giving you an example of a game that mattered more then most, and it was like it or not. If you just get shelled as a goalie you need to come out strong and gain you teams confidence back as well as stop the momentum the other team is gaining. Sure there are other important games but that was a big game for Lou.

Now you cut and past your last, we could go all night.

[Papayas]

I cut out my last post because the resonance is still relevant, here it is.

I was just giving you an example of a game that mattered more then most, and it was like it or not. If you just get shelled as a goalie you need to come out strong and gain you teams confidence back as well as stop the momentum the other team is gaining. Sure there are other important games but that was a big game for Lou.

Now you cut and past your last, we could go all night.

you still haven't answer how important do you think game 5 was?

keep dodging the question. You almost reach to the point where i am convince i can't have any meaningful and logical conversion with you.

[King Heffy]

you still haven't answer how important do you think game 5 was?

Every game was important. Luongo played like an ECHL call up in 3/7. That's simply unacceptable for an "elite" goalie.

[We Are All Cynics]

all this talks, and you still haven't explain how would you expect the team to reach the game 7 with 8 goals in total without Luongo posting those 2 shut outs...

because of that, i am out. You have your mind set on something, and no stat/logical evidences will convince you otherwise. It's a ridiculous thing that I have to ask someone why they think the team with that kind of scoring can get to game 7 in the first place... I am not going to waste anymore time in a circular argument with you.

Struck a nerve did I. I just think it's a ridiculous argument. Saying we got to game 7 because of two 1-0 shutouts means nothing. You could make the argument that his 8 goal meltdown was responsible for getting to game 7 as it provided a boost to Boston to have the confidence they could score at will on Lu. Thomas getting the shutout in game 4 contributed just as much to getting to game 7. It's funny but every game played that series lead to game 7. I'm just mad that with a 2-0 and 3-2 series lead we choked to game 7 and lost. And it ultimately came down to Thomas playing solid all seven games. Luongo played stellar for only three.

[Bombastik der Teutone]

missing steve mason ..may at tier 6 or tier 7

[We Are All Cynics]

you still haven't answer how important do you think game 5 was?

keep dodging the question. You almost reach to the point where i am convince i can't have any meaningful and logical conversion with you.

Game 5 was very important but not for what you might think. Unfortunately Luongo's stellar play in stealing that game sealed our fate. I really didn't want to see that outcome because of how badly Luongo struggled the past two games in Boston.

I wanted Schneider to start Game 6 but knew that wasn't going to happen because of Luongo's shutout and the fact that at the time he was the franchise goalie and didn't think management would dare not play Luongo when the Cup was on the line. However it bit us all in the ass as after five minutes when the Canucks looked absolutely determined to win and all over Thomas to get the first goal, Boston then scored the fastest four goals ever seen in a SCF game and that led to our downfall in Vancouver.

It's also why I believe management lost faith in Luongo, why he was on a shorter leash next years playoffs, why Schneider took over the starting job and so on. I think they were tired and lost confidence in Luongo who consistently seems to struggle against certain teams, have questionable performances at times, demands tire pumping and so on.

I really am looking forward to see the drama unfold this year with Luongo but I don't expect him to stay in Vancouver too much longer.

[Plum]

he answered that.

She*

[guesswhere]

Ahhhhhhh youthse!! (faux yuppy German Simon Templar accent)

[5Fivehole0]

seem to be a few short with lu and his multiple bad games 3 goals in 8 minutes in game 6 vs Boston. 4 goals in 2 periods in game 4 vs Boston, 4 goals against sj in game 3, 4 goals in game 5 vs Nashville, 4 goals in 2 periods in game 5 against hawks,

Sorry I screwed up

Game 3 7-2 Chi Loss

Game 4 5-0 Chi (Lu let in 4) Loss

Game 5 4-3 Nsh Loss

Game 3 4-3 SJS Loss

Game 3 8-1 Bos Loss

Note the team never bailed him out

Now every game Lu bailed the Canucks out. Every time the Canucks scraped by with a win... Just enough goals to get by.

Game 1 2-0 Chi Win 32 Saves

Game 3 3-2 Chi Win 30 Saves

Game 7 2-1 Chi Win 31 Saves

Game 1 1-0 Nsh Win 20 Saves

*Game 2 2-1 Nsh Loss 44 saves (He gave them every chance to win)

Game 6 2-1 Nsh Win 23 Saves

Game 1 3-2 SJS Win 27 Saves

Game 5 3-2 SJS Win 54 Saves

Game 1 1-0 Bos Win 36 Saves

Game 2 3-2 Bos Win 28 Saves

Game 5 1-0 Bos Win 31 Saves

He stole more games than he lost for the Canucks. He plays good when it matters.