[Report] NHL withheld Steve Moore's disability payment unless Bertuzzi lawsuit dropped

[Watermelon]

Was it wrong of Burtuzzi to punch him. Of course, but was it his fault that Moore's own teammates then continued to jump on his unconscious body. No. Burtuzzi gave him a concussion, cheap but no biggie while his idiotic teammates doggy piled him which resulted in these injuries. Moore if anything should be looking to sue those geniuses.

[Goat James]

Have you ever sky dived? or done something that required you to sign a waiver of some sort?

Yes, I agree, what happened to him (blind sided) and getting injured is not what the sport is all about.

Same for fighting - Hockey is not a fighting sport - there isn't one Hockey Coaching manual out there that coaches use to teach the kids how to fight.

Yet, fighting is part of the sport.

Sorry, the incident was unfortunate and has happened before and after - he just happened to get severely injured.

Does he deserve compensation? Of course.

Does he deserve $38 million? Nope, at least not in my opinion.

If Moore didn't "cheap shot" himself then I would be more on his side.

What goes around, comes around - he just got worse then he dished out.

Moore's job was to play Hockey - with that came cheap shots and fighting and hitting.

So your analogy to me or a taxi driver is ludicrous. It is not the same thing.

Like I said, I agree he should be compensated and it's unfortunate what happened to him.

You wouldn't be saying this if Bertuzzi was the one who was viciously attacked from behind, preventing him from ever playing the game again.

A taxi driver's job is to drive a car, and with that there's risks. You can drive off the road, get hit by another car and so on. So a driver gets hit by someone who's aiming to hurt him, and gets paralyzed. Is this part of the job? No, it's not. And neither is what happened to Moore.

And you people who are bashing him for being greedy: please get some perspective. Every human being in the world would rather have more money than less money. Including yourselves.

[Heretic]

You wouldn't be saying this if Bertuzzi was the one who was viciously attacked from behind, preventing him from ever playing the game again.

A taxi driver's job is to drive a car, and with that there's risks. You can drive off the road, get hit by another car and so on. So a driver gets hit by someone who's aiming to hurt him, and gets paralyzed. Is this part of the job? No, it's not. And neither is what happened to Moore.

And you people who are bashing him for being greedy: please get some perspective. Every human being in the world would rather have more money than less money. Including yourselves.

Now it's a "vicious" attack?

I guess you forget what happened to Donald Brashear.

Again, I'm not defending Bertuzzi but he wasn't TRYING TO END MOORE'S CAREER!

He just wanted to punch him.

Why don't people get that?

I just think the amount of money involved is ridiculous.

[Goat James]

Now it's a "vicious" attack?

I guess you forget what happened to Donald Brashear.

Again, I'm not defending Bertuzzi but he wasn't TRYING TO END MOORE'S CAREER!

He just wanted to punch him.

Why don't people get that?

I just think the amount of money involved is ridiculous.

Yeah, it was vicious. And what does the Donald Brasher thing have to do with anything?

[Monty]

Now it's a "vicious" attack?

I guess you forget what happened to Donald Brashear.

Again, I'm not defending Bertuzzi but he wasn't TRYING TO END MOORE'S CAREER!

He just wanted to punch him.

Why don't people get that?

I just think the amount of money involved is ridiculous.

Yes, it was a vicious attack. And whether or not Bertuzzi was trying to end his career or not, that's not the point. There's a reason nobody sees this play in a regular game, because it's not something that players expect to happen. Whether Bertuzzi had the intent to injure or not, it doesn't take a genius to know BEFORE striking somebody from behind that you're going to hurt them.

[Heretic]

Yeah, it was vicious. And what does the Donald Brasher thing have to do with anything?

He was a Canuck when he was viciously attacked.

[Heretic]

Yes, it was a vicious attack. And whether or not Bertuzzi was trying to end his career or not, that's not the point. There's a reason nobody sees this play in a regular game, because it's not something that players expect to happen. Whether Bertuzzi had the intent to injure or not, it doesn't take a genius to know BEFORE striking somebody from behind that you're going to hurt them.

Every time someone knocks someone into the boards, or elbows them to the head, or fights someone, there is a risk of a career ending injury or an injury where the victim may never recover 100%.

Have you ever hit your head on the ice (or know someone - I do) and you didn't have a helmet on?

Every time 2 guys fight, there's a risk that, that will happen.

Players don't "expect" to be hit blind side and yet it happens a lot during the course of a season.

Again, I'm not defending Bertuzzi, it was a dirty play, and we still have "dirty" plays today.

Moore was just unlucky.

It's a risk the players take every game.

So no, players do know about it, and it's that awareness that may save them, maybe not.

That's why they get paid the big bucks - they have no idea how long their careers will last.

[Goat James]

He was a Canuck when he was viciously attacked.

So? Your point is?

[Heretic]

You wouldn't be saying this if Bertuzzi was the one who was viciously attacked from behind, preventing him from ever playing the game again.

Yes I would.

So? Your point is?

Same thing.

Get it now?

[VanGnome]

Of course I will sue - but my job is not to get hit by drunk drivers and see if I survive.

Moore's job was to play a contact sport - with that comes consequences.

Should every NHL player who doesn't play as long as Selanne sue the NHL for lost wages?

Edit: Oh, I never said he wasn't entitled to anything.

Edit 2: My brother got injured playing football on an icy street 2 and a half years ago. He's been on LTD, back to work a bit, LTD again...he had pins in his leg and has had one hip joint replaced. Should he sue the City of White Rock because there was ice on the road and he and his friends were drunk and playing football in the middle of the street?

The defining factor in this is not that he was playing a contact sport, it's that he was the victim of an assault. This has been beaten to death, reanimated, killed then beaten some more.

In my opinion the *actions* of Bertuzzi were outside of the standard definition of what the accepted risks associated with playing the sport are, it's a bit of a gray zone, but still separate from the fighting issue.

In a typical situation when something like this is about to unfold, the assaulting player will typically continue to harass the defending player until either 1. Both players engage in a physical confrontation, 2. A teammate of the defending player steps in to acknowledge the confrontation, 3. The referees intervene, or 4. Simply nothing happens and both players return to the live play action.

No player reasonably expects that if requested to fight, as Bertuzzi allegedly did, and denies the request by continuing to follow the live play, that they are then going to be grabbed by the sweater, punched in the side of the head and then driven into the ice.

The fact that actual cause of the damage was likely the pile on afterward is insignificant to the claim, as had the events that preceded the pile on not happened, Moore likely would not have sustained the same injury.

In this context Moore has every right to request loss of future earnings, his valuation of himself is completely off base, but that's entirely beside the point.

Bottom line is, Bertuzzi lost his temper, assaulted Moore outside the reasonably accepted risk factors inherent to the sport, who was subsequently injured, and unable to continue his chosen profession. Moore has every right to file a civil suit against Bertuzzi within the context of an assault which is define as a criminal act, however he has no basis for including the league, any of its officers, affiliates or affiliate owners.

The formula for potential earnings lost can only be decided based on concrete examples of income being earned at the time of the offense, not what may have transpired had it never happened -- in that we are in agreement.

In my opinion the loss of earnings formula should roughly resemble Loss of earnings = Minimum NHL Salary per CBA * ((Average length of NHL career in games played - Number of NHL games already played) / 82).

What this does is account for steadily increasing minimum salaries for NHL contracts for the duration of any CBA from the date of the offense until settlement (in this case, it factors in the numbers for the two recent CBA negotiations), and a general assessment of reasonably expected time left in the player's career.

A case can be made for the defendant in the case (Bertuzzi) to pay the plaintiff's (Moore) legal fees arising from the case, as is customary in similar suits (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, my Law precedents are a bit fuzzy). The money more than ensures a reasonable maintenance of one's lifestyle pre-accident, and affords more than enough opportunity to pursue other career interests.

[R3aL]

Moore fought Cooke there next game.

And I wouldn't call $350,000 a fair settlement. Moore was an NHL player. If I got punched at work I could sue for more than that..

Yea I would call 350000 a fair settlement when it would be coming straight out of bertuzzis pocket. He would be getting NHL disability pay with that as well, and he wouldn't be spending all his money on lawyers with his ssmug weasel smiles.

The fact is Moore wasn't even in the league very long and he looked to be a similar player to the dirty Matt Cooke, someone if anyone who should have been kicked out f the league long ago, and the Marc savard elbow should have been the last straw, biggest rat move I have ever seen in my life and destroys one of my favorite players careers just like that. Did Cooke pay savard? Just curious If u think he was offered any money from Cooke? Did Cooke have to sacrifice years of hockey, family stress and scrutiny or really anything asides from a little apology I'm different now...

Bertuzzi was never a dirty player he was a Milan lucic of a force out there was talented offensively but would stand up for his teammates old school hockey code. Naslund was as close a friend to him as brad may at the time, was his captain, his line mate and his teams scoring leader. Moore almost ended his career add that in to the blow out and the furious crow demanding

It on the bench he really had little choice to do other wise.

Are the refs of that game not accountable, what about BOTH coaches, it was pretty obvious what was happening, why was Moore even in the game after being chased to fight so many times? For all we know he was lipping tem off the whole time he was running away, we don't know we weren't on the ice. Te fact of the matter is sure he threw the punch, but tere have been so many more violent instances in hockey history this was just an unfortunate one the impact f him falling to the ice and the team pile up surely made matters worse. Was anyone who piled up considered third party to the "assault"?

You mention if someone punched u at work I could sue them... Sorry many but that logics really biased, I'm sure if two co workers squared off to a consented fight they wouldn't receive cheers and then just 5 min time outs.. I'm sure depending on ur organization they would be fired instantly. Most jobs any form of violence or contact is forbidden. I'm te NHL it is sanctioned and praised, violence in hockey is not te same as violence in ur workplace or any of ours for that matter. Just like u wouldn't be able to body check a coworker to get a tool they were using , or computer they were on etc etc. that's a silly comparison.

The fact is this is becoming a joke, the circumstance are sad, but I never feel sorry for greedy individuals who try and milk the system.

He should have taken a settlement or at least demanded a respectful amount like a Cple mill from the league, and taken his disability payments. 350k from Bert 200 whatever thousand from the league and whatever reoccurring $$ he could get would still be more than most professional in the workforce mke over a decade.

Just my opinion, but u can't compare workplace violence to hockey violence.

[R3aL]

To also add , the Thornton sucker punch on brooks Orpik, was that not worse than what bertuzzi did, he pulls him 100

% unexpected from behind slams him to the fr knocks him out and punches him a couple more times.

[Warren281]

Hasn't this case already been thrown out multiple times? Every time it gets thrown out, he just tries to sue him somewhere else, which is why this attempt is in Ontario. I'll trust the multiple judges that have already disregarded this case and I expect the same to happen here.

[Aladeen]

Hasn't this case already been thrown out multiple times? Every time it gets thrown out, he just tries to sue him somewhere else, which is why this attempt is in Ontario. I'll trust the multiple judges that have already disregarded this case and I expect the same to happen here.

I believe it was thrown out in the US because the court ruled the incident took place in Canada, which is beyond their jurisdiction. I think he then filed in Ontario because BC is very stingy when awarding large settlements... In BC it would be shocking if Moore received more than 5 million dollars.

[Heretic]

The defining factor in this is not that he was playing a contact sport, it's that he was the victim of an assault. This has been beaten to death, reanimated, killed then beaten some more.

In my opinion the *actions* of Bertuzzi were outside of the standard definition of what the accepted risks associated with playing the sport are, it's a bit of a gray zone, but still separate from the fighting issue.

In a typical situation when something like this is about to unfold, the assaulting player will typically continue to harass the defending player until either 1. Both players engage in a physical confrontation, 2. A teammate of the defending player steps in to acknowledge the confrontation, 3. The referees intervene, or 4. Simply nothing happens and both players return to the live play action.

No player reasonably expects that if requested to fight, as Bertuzzi allegedly did, and denies the request by continuing to follow the live play, that they are then going to be grabbed by the sweater, punched in the side of the head and then driven into the ice.

The fact that actual cause of the damage was likely the pile on afterward is insignificant to the claim, as had the events that preceded the pile on not happened, Moore likely would not have sustained the same injury.

In this context Moore has every right to request loss of future earnings, his valuation of himself is completely off base, but that's entirely beside the point.

Bottom line is, Bertuzzi lost his temper, assaulted Moore outside the reasonably accepted risk factors inherent to the sport, who was subsequently injured, and unable to continue his chosen profession. Moore has every right to file a civil suit against Bertuzzi within the context of an assault which is define as a criminal act, however he has no basis for including the league, any of its officers, affiliates or affiliate owners.

The formula for potential earnings lost can only be decided based on concrete examples of income being earned at the time of the offense, not what may have transpired had it never happened -- in that we are in agreement.

In my opinion the loss of earnings formula should roughly resemble Loss of earnings = Minimum NHL Salary per CBA * ((Average length of NHL career in games played - Number of NHL games already played) / 82).

What this does is account for steadily increasing minimum salaries for NHL contracts for the duration of any CBA from the date of the offense until settlement (in this case, it factors in the numbers for the two recent CBA negotiations), and a general assessment of reasonably expected time left in the player's career.

A case can be made for the defendant in the case (Bertuzzi) to pay the plaintiff's (Moore) legal fees arising from the case, as is customary in similar suits (anyone can correct me if I'm wrong, my Law precedents are a bit fuzzy). The money more than ensures a reasonable maintenance of one's lifestyle pre-accident, and affords more than enough opportunity to pursue other career interests.

Well that was well written compared to my posts, thanks.

Okay, so, average NHL career is 5-6 years: http://www.quanthockey.com/Distributions/CareerLengthGP.php

When that incident happened, it was Moore's 3rd year.

So, give him the 6, means Bertuzzi owes him his salary for 3 years = $425,000 x 3 = $1.275 million.

That's a far ways a way from $38 million....

Note: The $425,000 was Moore's salary in 2004.

[Browntown01]

So, are you saying, regardless of what happened to Moore, he is entitled to sue because getting sucker punched is not part of the game of Hockey?

No I'm not saying that. I don't know where you came to that conclusion. I'm saying because Bertuzzi ended his career with a sucker punch he should sue him.

In other words, any cheap shot should have a law suit attached, due to the fact that pain and suffering and emotional distress are part of "compensatory damages" when it comes to the law.

When you are attacked in a manner that is outside the rules, and your career is ended, then yes by all means sue.

Since when is it illegal to play football (any sport) on the street?

Bertuzzi did something "illegal" and Moore got hurt.

My brother's coworker did something "illegal" and my brother got hurt.

Illegal was a bit of a stretch. Your brother was drunk in a public place and hurt himself. I don't understand why you we asking if he should sue the City of Whiterock. If your brother's coworker hurt your brother (which you didn't mention earlier) the circumstances would dictate if he could sue his coworker, not the city.

Are you saying that if Bertuzzi sucker punched Moore at say a night club, it would be okay if both of them were drunk?

Again this has nothing to do with anything. You are contriving scenarios that have nothing to do with what originally happened. And even if they were drunk in a night club Moore could still sue Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi jumped him from behind and ended his career. Regardless of if he was drunk or not, the intent was there to hurt him.

Edit: One more thing, you and others are focusing on "blind sided" or "sucker punch" - are you saying if Bertuzzi clocked him straight in the face with a knock out punch and everyone fell on him and Moore still got injured that it would have been okay and "part of the game"????

Where do you come up with this stuff? I'm pretty sure I have never said it was part of the game or okay to punch him from the front. Cold cocking somebody, from behind or from the front, is not "part of the game."

Your whole argument appears to be a red herring.

[Heretic]

No I'm not saying that. I don't know where you came to that conclusion. I'm saying because Bertuzzi ended his career with a sucker punch he should sue him.

When you are attacked in a manner that is outside the rules, and your career is ended, then yes by all means sue.

Illegal was a bit of a stretch. Your brother was drunk in a public place and hurt himself. I don't understand why you we asking if he should sue the City of Whiterock. If your brother's coworker hurt your brother (which you didn't mention earlier) the circumstances would dictate if he could sue his coworker, not the city.

Again this has nothing to do with anything. You are contriving scenarios that have nothing to do with what originally happened. And even if they were drunk in a night club Moore could still sue Bertuzzi. Bertuzzi jumped him from behind and ended his career. Regardless of if he was drunk or not, the intent was there to hurt him.

Where do you come up with this stuff? I'm pretty sure I have never said it was part of the game or okay to punch him from the front. Cold cocking somebody, from behind or from the front, is not "part of the game."

Your whole argument appears to be a red herring.

Now we're getting somewhere. So you are on the side that doesn't want fighting in Hockey?

In any fight, there is always a chance that someone is going to get knocked out.

Whether by luck or just one guy stronger than the other or falling.

Fighting is not part of any coaching manual I ever used - yet it is in the game.

The players know it and assume the risk.

Just like you if you took up sky diving, will assume the risk and can NOT sue the pilot if you are hurt during your dive.

Again, the issue I have is not his right to sue, but the amount.

[Browntown01]

Yea I would call 350000 a fair settlement when it would be coming straight out of bertuzzis pocket. He would be getting NHL disability pay with that as well, and he wouldn't be spending all his money on lawyers with his ssmug weasel smiles.

The fact is Moore wasn't even in the league very long and he looked to be a similar player to the dirty Matt Cooke, someone if anyone who should have been kicked out f the league long ago, and the Marc savard elbow should have been the last straw, biggest rat move I have ever seen in my life and destroys one of my favorite players careers just like that. Did Cooke pay savard? Just curious If u think he was offered any money from Cooke? Did Cooke have to sacrifice years of hockey, family stress and scrutiny or really anything asides from a little apology I'm different now...

I have a different view on the Cooke hit. At the time, what Matt Cooke did was within the rules. Remember that he was not suspended. Because it was within the rules, I don't think Savard could successfully sue Matt Cooke. On the other hand, he could probably sue his employer(The NHL) for not provided adequate protection.

Bertuzzi was never a dirty player he was a Milan lucic of a force out there was talented offensively but would stand up for his teammates old school hockey code. Naslund was as close a friend to him as brad may at the time, was his captain, his line mate and his teams scoring leader. Moore almost ended his career add that in to the blow out and the furious crow demanding

It on the bench he really had little choice to do other wise.

You always have a choice. This reminds of a the story of the guy in Whistler who killed those 56 sled dogs. It is a different scenario with the same underlying principles. The point is, just because somebody tells you to do something wrong doesn't mean you have to go out and do it.

Are the refs of that game not accountable, what about BOTH coaches, it was pretty obvious what was happening, why was Moore even in the game after being chased to fight so many times? For all we know he was lipping tem off the whole time he was running away, we don't know we weren't on the ice. Te fact of the matter is sure he threw the punch, but tere have been so many more violent instances in hockey history this was just an unfortunate one the impact f him falling to the ice and the team pile up surely made matters worse. Was anyone who piled up considered third party to the "assault"?

Crawford and Bertuzzi are accountable. You cannot blame the victim for being on the ice and getting attacked.

You mention if someone punched u at work I could sue them... Sorry many but that logics really biased, I'm sure if two co workers squared off to a consented fight they wouldn't receive cheers and then just 5 min time outs.. I'm sure depending on ur organization they would be fired instantly. Most jobs any form of violence or contact is forbidden. I'm te NHL it is sanctioned and praised, violence in hockey is not te same as violence in ur workplace or any of ours for that matter. Just like u wouldn't be able to body check a coworker to get a tool they were using , or computer they were on etc etc. that's a silly comparison.

We could start a whole new thread on the topic of the violence in general in hockey. But to your point, consenting fights in the NHL are within the rules, punching in the back of the head is not.

The fact is this is becoming a joke, the circumstance are sad, but I never feel sorry for greedy individuals who try and milk the system.

He should have taken a settlement or at least demanded a respectful amount like a Cple mill from the league, and taken his disability payments. 350k from Bert 200 whatever thousand from the league and whatever reoccurring $$ he could get would still be more than most professional in the workforce mke over a decade.

Just my opinion, but u can't compare workplace violence to hockey violence.

$350,000 is not even close to what he deserves, and $38 million may be too much. If that happened to me, I would shoot for the stars as well. Don't pretend like you wouldn't either.

[TheAce]

Now we're getting somewhere. So you are on the side that doesn't want fighting in Hockey?

In any fight, there is always a chance that someone is going to get knocked out.

Whether by luck or just one guy stronger than the other or falling.

Fighting is not part of any coaching manual I ever used - yet it is in the game.

The players know it and assume the risk.

Just like you if you took up sky diving, will assume the risk and can NOT sue the pilot if you are hurt during your dive.

Again, the issue I have is not his right to sue, but the amount.

Fighting in hockey is part of the game because it involves 2 willing participants who 99% of the time square off with each other and have a fair fight. Bertuzzi grabbed a guy from behind and sucker punched him. They are 2 completely different scenerio's.

[Heretic]

Fighting in hockey is part of the game because it involves 2 willing participants who 99% of the time square off with each other and have a fair fight. Bertuzzi grabbed a guy from behind and sucker punched him. They are 2 completely different scenerio's.

...and McSorely did a two handed stick chop to Brashear's temple, and Scott Stevens delivered head shots with his shoulder, and Keith elbowed Sedin to the head, and so on and so on...