Mike Gillis Should Stay

[aGENT]

I never said there weren't worse GM's than Gillis. I simply refuted the insane notion that there are none that are better than him.

Who even made that claim?

[wallstreetamigo]

Peter Chiarelli - The first, most recent trade is the Seguin trade. A young, #1C for a scoring winger that can't stay healthy.

He gave up a 7th rounder for Wade Redden's 5.6 Mil cap hit?

Payne, McDermid and a 2nd rounder for a Jagr that didn't score a single goal for them in the playoffs and then left to play for another team.

He also completely mishandled the Tim Thomas situation. Who trades away their cup winning goaltender to another team two years after he wins it for them. How about some loyalty?

Colborne, a 1st and 2nd for Tomas Kaberle? What did Kaberle even do in the playoffs?

Chiarelli just needs to be canned along with Gillis. I think we on CDC know a bit more about this kind of stuff than these two idiots. Am I right, or am I right?!

This is easier than I thought it would be.

Stan Bowman - Pirri for a 5th and a 6th? Why would he trade our prospects for nothing?

Dave Bolland for a 2nd and 2 4ths? I think he could have gotten a bit more than that! That's Lou trade value!

Klinkhammer for a conditional 7th rounder? He's also a mainstay on the Phoenix blueline now but let's ignore that because he also lost Stanton FOR NOTHING!

Taffe for Marty Reasoner? At least make this easy for us Stan!

Ladd for Vishnevskiy and a 2nd rounder! He's a captain and one of the best players on the Jets for a player that's playing in Russia now?

Stan Bowman = GONE!

Doug Armstrong - He hasn't even been the GM for one full season yet. Nice try.

Dean Lombardi - Colin Fraser and a 7th rounder for Ryan Smyth? That's the best he could have gotten for Ryan Smyth?

Bordson and Richards for Simmonds, Schenn and a 2nd. Could you get fleeced any more Dean?!

Penner for Tuebert a 1st and a 3rd? Where's Dustin now?!

Halpern for Purcell and a 3rd? This is just becoming ridiculous Dean.

A 3rd rounder for Brian Boyle. I don't even...

Demitra for O'Sullivan? Yeah, that really paid off.

Thanks for the cup Dean! Don't let the door hit you on the way out!

Steve Yzerman - His very first trade he gives up Meszaros for a 2nd rounder. 76 points in 192 games for a D-man only fetches a 2nd rounder in this market nowadays? Gimme a break Steve.

Kubina for Kalinski and a couple of conditionals? Isn't that the guy from The Office? Did he really trade Kubina for Jim from The Office?

Ashton for Aulie? Are you just giving away our prospects?

Bishop for Conacher?! Yes, Ben Bishop is the goalie of the Future!

You traded away one of the most exciting and future HOF in St Louis for a guy who's never gotten more than 54 points in a season and a 1st and 2nd rounder?

You may have been a great player Stevie Y., but we here on CDC know that you're really just a bum in disguise. Payce!

Dale Tallon - Hey Dale! Why don't you hold down a job at a team where you can win a cup for once! I hear that no one likes working with Dale Tallon because he stood in front of the elevator doors before waiting for everyone to get off prior to getting on. That's why he's such a crappy GM.

Good job waiving Grabner Dale! Any idiot could have seen he was worth his weight in gold!

Higgins for Oberg and a 3rd. Thanks for that one Dale!

Wideman for Hauswirth and a 3rd. Our D core has never looked better!

Samsanov for Bryan Allen. Yes, you read that right. Samsanov for Bryan Allen.

You gave up the best goaltending prospect in the world and a hard working player in Shawn Mathias for an overaged, overpaid by HIS OWN ADMISSION goaltender? We already went through that failed project once Dale, we don't want to go through it again.

You're well spoken wallstreetamigo, but you're full of it.

With all due respect, no GM is perfect (no, not even your exalted Gillis). Do all moves they make work out? Of course not. To think so is ridiculous. But cherry picking the bad means you should also look at the good if you are trying to refute my argument. 3 of those GM's won cups based on their moves. Are higher prices in trades worth it for a cup? Those GM's think so.

I would take any of those GM's over Gillis in a heartbeat. Nice try insulting them but looking at the TOTALITY of their body of work next to Gillis' makes Gillis look even worse. No one in their right mind can suggest Gillis is a better GM than any of them.

Talon built a cup winning team in Chicago then got replaced before they won. Bowman had to dismantle it for cap reasons but its funny how they won another cup pretty fast based on his great moves. Tallon inherited a terrible team in Florida and has made it better. Gillis inherited a great team in Vancouver and has made it worse. No comparison imo.The Blues are a tremendous team top to bottom. I think they will win a cup soon as they are building the right way and following a consistent approach unlike Gillis. Yzerman has made great moves. Conacher for Bishop is something you are saying is a bad trade???? lol Seriously? That is a coup hands down. St Louis got an awful lot for Yzerman too considering his age.

If any of those GM's got fired - which they wont anytime soon because they are doing great work - I would not wait a second to bum rush Gillis and bring in any of them.

[wallstreetamigo]

The team never would have gotten to the top of the league if Gillis didn't make some great moves.

Letting Mitchell walk and picking up Hamhuis. Great trade off.

Getting a true PP quarterback for Patrick White. Ehrhoff helped the Sedins elevate their play.

Sundin helped Kesler's and the Sedins' development.

If you wanted to say the same thing, Stan Bowman won the cup in 2010 on Dale Tallon's core. The next season the Blackhawks barely made the playoffs, should he have been fired? I mean he inherited a monster core and the next season they struggled mightily, he must be a bad GM...

Or do teams sometimes have off years.

Which is it?

lol. Gillis did not fleece San Jose to get Ehrhoff. He simply won the cap space fire sale they were having to get Heatley. A great move for sure getting Ehrhoff though. But that is negated by his idiotic decision to keep Bieksa and Ballard rather than pay Ehrhoff fair value. Ehrhoff was worth more to this team at that time than Bieksa was just for what he brought to the Sedins game. To refuse to give him more than Bieksa was stupid and has clearly been a key point in the demise of this team as he never replaced Ehrhoff with the same type of player.

[Ding-Dong]

With all due respect, no GM is perfect (no, not even your exalted Gillis). Do all moves they make work out? Of course not. To think so is ridiculous. But cherry picking the bad means you should also look at the good if you are trying to refute my argument. 3 of those GM's won cups based on their moves. Are higher prices in trades worth it for a cup? Those GM's think so.

I would take any of those GM's over Gillis in a heartbeat. Nice try insulting them but looking at the TOTALITY of their body of work next to Gillis' makes Gillis look even worse. No one in their right mind can suggest Gillis is a better GM than any of them.

Talon built a cup winning team in Chicago then got replaced before they won. Bowman had to dismantle it for cap reasons but its funny how they won another cup pretty fast based on his great moves. Tallon inherited a terrible team in Florida and has made it better. Gillis inherited a great team in Vancouver and has made it worse. No comparison imo.The Blues are a tremendous team top to bottom. I think they will win a cup soon as they are building the right way and following a consistent approach unlike Gillis. Yzerman has made great moves. Conacher for Bishop is something you are saying is a bad trade???? lol Seriously? That is a coup hands down. St Louis got an awful lot for Yzerman too considering his age.

If any of those GM's got fired - which they wont anytime soon because they are doing great work - I would not wait a second to bum rush Gillis and bring in any of them.

Did you want to bring up your original quote? Because my point here is in regards to that. What did your original post say? That these GM's got full value in all of their trades. Going off of a little bit of research, I've shown you that it's not true. Now you try to backtrack and state that you never said it?

Don't try to divert this discussion that YOU brought up to something unrelated.

[wallstreetamigo]

Woah woah woah. We're talking Mike Gillis here ok. Please don't bring actual facts and logic in to this discussion to prove your point. If you're not throwing out wild, unsubstantiated rumours and leaving out key facts that will actually discredit your point then you're not doing it correctly.

Woah woah woah. We're talking Mike Gillis here ok. Please don't bring actual facts and logic in to this discussion to prove your point. If you're not throwing out wild, unsubstantiated rumours and leaving out key facts that will actually discredit your point then you're not doing it correctly.

Umm.....you guys do realize that while Bowman won the cup the first time on Tallon's core he was also forced to dismantle it for cap reasons. Funny how he built them back into a cup winner in a very short time though. Who gets credit for that?

Oh wait, probably Gillis according to some of the idiots on CD.

[Ding-Dong]

lol. Gillis did not fleece San Jose to get Ehrhoff. He simply won the cap space fire sale they were having to get Heatley. A great move for sure getting Ehrhoff though. But that is negated by his idiotic decision to keep Bieksa and Ballard rather than pay Ehrhoff fair value. Ehrhoff was worth more to this team at that time than Bieksa was just for what he brought to the Sedins game. To refuse to give him more than Bieksa was stupid and has clearly been a key point in the demise of this team as he never replaced Ehrhoff with the same type of player.

Of course, if one of the other 28 GMs in the league made that trade, you would have been right on Gillis for not being a part of that trade or 'at least kick the tires on it because that's what a good GM does'

[Ding-Dong]

Umm.....you guys do realize that while Bowman won the cup the first time on Tallon's core he was also forced to dismantle it for cap reasons. Funny how he built them back into a cup winner in a very short time though. Who gets credit for that?

Oh wait, probably Gillis according to some of the idiots on CD.

Going off of your own logic here in this thread, the previous GM of the team. Dale Tallon. As that is his core that Bowman just simply inherited

[aGENT]

I never said there weren't worse GM's than Gillis. I simply refuted the insane notion that there are none that are better than him.

Who even made that claim?

Umm.....you guys do realize that while Bowman won the cup the first time on Tallon's core he was also forced to dismantle it for cap reasons. Funny how he built them back into a cup winner in a very short time though. Who gets credit for that?

Oh wait, probably Gillis according to some of the idiots on CD.

Why are you making things up and putting words in people's mouths? Nobody here has claimed Gillis is a god or the "best GM in the league EVARRRRR".

The only common sentiment from the "reasonable crowd" I've seen is that Gillis doesn't deserve half the hate he receives and certainly doesn't deserved to be fired. That he's done overall more good than bad and overall a good job. We're still looking for a cup...so there's certainly more work to be done.

Could he have done better? Sure! Most GM's could as they're human and not free from errors in judgement or being victims of circumstance.

[Honky Cat]

Umm.....you guys do realize that while Bowman won the cup the first time on Tallon's core he was also forced to dismantle it for cap reasons. Funny how he built them back into a cup winner in a very short time though. Who gets credit for that?

Oh wait, probably Gillis according to some of the idiots on CD.

The core of the Hawks is Toews,Kane,Keith ,Seabrook.,Sharp..They were not dismantled ..secondary players were moved.

[Tearloch7]

Why are you making things up and putting words in people's mouths? Nobody here has claimed Gillis is a god or the "best GM in the league EVARRRRR".

The only common sentiment from the "reasonable crowd" I've seen is that Gillis doesn't deserve half the hate he receives and certainly doesn't deserved to be fired. That he's done overall more good than bad and overall a good job. We're still looking for a cup...so there's certainly more work to be done.

Could he have done better? Sure! Most GM's could as they're human and not free from errors in judgement or being victims of circumstance.

Bang on .. I just wish folks who blindly hate Gilles would move on.

[wallstreetamigo]

Did you want to bring up your original quote? Because my point here is in regards to that. What did your original post say? That these GM's got full value in all of their trades. Going off of a little bit of research, I've shown you that it's not true. Now you try to backtrack and state that you never said it?

Don't try to divert this discussion that YOU brought up to something unrelated.

I would say a Stanley Cup = full value.

[wallstreetamigo]

Of course, if one of the other 28 GMs in the league made that trade, you would have been right on Gillis for not being a part of that trade or 'at least kick the tires on it because that's what a good GM does'

No I wouldn't because any of the other 28 GM's easily could have won that sweepstakes. I have always given Gillis credit for winning that one. But the reality is he did not swindle Ehrhoff away. They were desperate to get rid of him.

[wallstreetamigo]

The core of the Hawks is Toews,Kane,Keith ,Seabrook.,Sharp..They were not dismantled ..secondary players were moved.

Umm......the cup winning team was dismantled. No other way to describe it. Core players from that cup win were traded away. Byfuglien, Ladd, etc. All were huge pieces in their first cup win.

And as Gillis has shown us lately, having 4 or 5 top players means nothing if you cannot actually surround them with the right pieces to be a winner.

[elvis15]

Why are you making things up and putting words in people's mouths? Nobody here has claimed Gillis is a god or the "best GM in the league EVARRRRR".

The only common sentiment from the "reasonable crowd" I've seen is that Gillis doesn't deserve half the hate he receives and certainly doesn't deserved to be fired. That he's done overall more good than bad and overall a good job. We're still looking for a cup...so there's certainly more work to be done.

Could he have done better? Sure! Most GM's could as they're human and not free from errors in judgement or being victims of circumstance.

It's like he's trying to argue something completely different than us. If he wants to prove Gillis isn't the best GM in the league right now based on all the moves he's made during all the years he's been here, he's right. If he's trying to argue that in 2010/11 he wasn't arguably the best GM in the NHL for all the moves he made at that time as he built around the core that was left and put together a team that got within one win of the cup, then he's wrong. If he's trying to argue that he hasn't done a good job at all in his time here overall then he's also wrong.

Gillis' achievement of game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals is not that far off the achievement of winning the cup that he's lauding GM's like Bowman for.

[Ding-Dong]

I would say a Stanley Cup = full value.

Ahhhh so now that your original point has been disproven, you try to change the criteria so it's not.

You try to change it but also fail to mention that not every single one of those GMs has won a Stanley Cup so there's also that

[wallstreetamigo]

Did you want to bring up your original quote? Because my point here is in regards to that. What did your original post say? That these GM's got full value in all of their trades. Going off of a little bit of research, I've shown you that it's not true. Now you try to backtrack and state that you never said it?

Don't try to divert this discussion that YOU brought up to something unrelated.

Actually, the original discussion was about there not being a single GM in the league who was better than Gillis unless their track record was shown to prove it. I provided 5 and could easily provide 5 more. Gillis is average at best. Good at some things, terrible at others. I want a GM who is good at more things than he is bad at though and Gillis does not qualify imo.

[wallstreetamigo]

It's like he's trying to argue something completely different than us. If he wants to prove Gillis isn't the best GM in the league right now based on all the moves he's made during all the years he's been here, he's right. If he's trying to argue that in 2010/11 he wasn't arguably the best GM in the NHL for all the moves he made at that time as he built around the core that was left and put together a team that got within one win of the cup, then he's wrong. If he's trying to argue that he hasn't done a good job at all in his time here overall then he's also wrong.

Gillis' achievement of game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals is not that far off the achievement of winning the cup that he's lauding GM's like Bowman for.

Gillis made some really good moves. Higgins, Lapierre, Torres, and Ehrhoff come to mind. He did a good job surrounding the core for that cup run.But honestly he has not done anything since then that makes me think he can rekindle that now.

I don't care what Gillis did years ago. I don't want him here anymore only because he has shown an inability to do it NOW with THIS team in its current incarnation. He does not seem to know how to build an NHL core. He augmented a very good one and deserves credit. But he has also unwound almost all of that by letting those players go for nothing and not replacing them.

[elvis15]

No I wouldn't because any of the other 28 GM's easily could have won that sweepstakes. I have always given Gillis credit for winning that one. But the reality is he did not swindle Ehrhoff away. They were desperate to get rid of him.

The Sharks got fleeced on that deal, and to think they didn't get more back for Ehrhoff considering how people value his performance while he was here is incredible. Gillis not only was the winner in that sweepstakes, but he gave up a Nonis first round bust in White and a third round bust in Rahimi for him (and Lukowich). You're completely discounting the value we gave up to get him since it's not like we had to move Raymond or Hansen to get the deal done.

If all 28 other teams were in on the sweepstakes, I can't believe someone didn't offer something better than White and Rahimi, so a compliment of Gillis lucking into that deal is backhanded at best.

EDIT: but I'll stop now before I get drawn back into the same debate I've had on CDC over and over. I know it'll never convince anyone who's dead set against it no matter how many facts I provide.

[wallstreetamigo]

The Sharks got fleeced on that deal, and to think they didn't get more back for Ehrhoff considering how people value his performance while he was here is incredible. Gillis not only was the winner in that sweepstakes, but he gave up a Nonis first round bust in White and a third round bust in Rahimi for him (and Lukowich). You're completely discounting the value we gave up to get him since it's not like we had to move Raymond or Hansen to get the deal done.

If all 28 other teams were in on the sweepstakes, I can't believe someone didn't offer something better than White and Rahimi, so a compliment of Gillis lucking into that deal is backhanded at best.

With all due respect, Ehrhoff was not nearly as highly coveted prior to coming to Vancouver. Not even close. He was seen as very inconsistent and error prone. The Sedins and the Canucks certainly helped him develop his game and become a better player. But he also helped the Sedins become better players during his time here too.

The thing I hate about CDC and posters like you most is that you focus on one thing that someone says without actually reading all of it. I give full credit to Gillis for getting Ehrhoff. It was a good move. Did he fleece them though? No because they were looking to dump Ehrhoff anyway. It was presented that he somehow convinced them to give Ehrhoff up fr nothing. The reality is they were so desperate to get Heatley they were giving him up for nothing no matter what.

People look at players current value and assume it has always been so. Ehrhoff was seen as expendable because of his defensive game more than anything. And despite the short term memory loss at CDC he was not nearly as bad defensively here as many suggest. Certainly no worse than we saw from guys like Bieksa andEdler on a fairly regular basis at times.

[Ding-Dong]

Actually, the original discussion was about there not being a single GM in the league who was better than Gillis unless their track record was shown to prove it. I provided 5 and could easily provide 5 more. Gillis is average at best. Good at some things, terrible at others. I want a GM who is good at more things than he is bad at though and Gillis does not qualify imo.

Did you really want me to go back and pull up your exact quote? It's only a couple pages back and I even bolded exactly what I was responding too. Is it really that hard for you to admit that you may have been incorrect in saying that those GMs got 'FULL VALUE' in all of their trades? Or did you just want to again deny ever saying that in the first place?