The "I would like to see Torts stay for at least one more year" thread.

[canucksnihilist]

If the GM doesn't sign his own coach, we have real problems.

Nothing against Torts, his style may not be for everybody, but he did - for part of the season - have remarkable success with an aging core.

Really - if the GM doesn't have a vision (and ahem.. has to go through a lengthy interview process to find out about the coach in place, cause... maybe he hadn't been paying attention?) and know what all the coaches in the league are capable of already - then he is the wrong GM.

So ya, there is a chance - if Feaster is hired by the sound of it - that Torts stays. Else not a chance.

[Tearloch7]

If the GM doesn't sign his own coach, we have real problems.

Nothing against Torts, his style may not be for everybody, but he did - for part of the season - have remarkable success with an aging core.

Really - if the GM doesn't have a vision (and ahem.. has to go through a lengthy interview process to find out about the coach in place, cause... maybe he hadn't been paying attention?) and know what all the coaches in the league are capable of already - then he is the wrong GM.

So ya, there is a chance - if Feaster is hired by the sound of it - that Torts stays. Else not a chance.

If Feaster is hired, they best wait until after the deadline for season ticket refunds, or the Season Ticket sales will plummet further.

[RUPERTKBD]

If Feaster is hired, they best wait until after the deadline for season ticket refunds, or the Season Ticket sales will plummet further.

I'm not a quick to jump on the anti-Feaster bandwagon as many, but I think this is an accurate assessment.

The public perception is that Feaster would be a poor choice, especially with names like Benning out there and hiring a Calgary cast-off would likely result in a huge drop off in attendance at the Rog.

I have to believe that Trevor and ownership are aware of this and will do their due diligence accordingly.

[DeNiro]

Henrik Sedin Played an extra 1min 19 secs per game average this season compared to last season which was shortened.

Daniel Sedin played an extra 2mins per game average from last years shortened season.

And people complain about them getting overworked. These guys are top of the range athletes. Playing an extra 2 minutes a night every three nights sure is hard eh.

If they're averaging 2 minutes extra a night, that's not every three games, that's every game. That makes more of a difference than you realize. It adds up over the course of 82 games.

And it's likely that they were played over 20 minutes a game in the first half and then had their ice time get scaled back later on when they were burnt out; averaging it out to 20-21 minutes.

In their most productive seasons they were averaging around 18-19 minutes, which is where they should be at with the type of game they play. The cycle game takes alot of energy and they also take alot of abuse along the boards. They don't need any more tough minutes added on, especially not on the pk.

Play them to their strengths, which is offensive minutes only. We have Kesler for the tough defensive minutes. AV realized this, hopefully Tortorella gets it through his head.

[Angry Goose]

If they're averaging 2 minutes extra a night, that's not every three games, that's every game. That makes more of a difference than you realize. It adds up over the course of 82 games.

And it's likely that they were played over 20 minutes a game in the first half and then had their ice time get scaled back later on when they were burnt out; averaging it out to 20-21 minutes.

In their most productive seasons they were averaging around 18-19 minutes, which is where they should be at with the type of game they play. The cycle game takes alot of energy and they also take alot of abuse along the boards. They don't need any more tough minutes added on, especially not on the pk.

Play them to their strengths, which is offensive minutes only. We have Kesler for the tough defensive minutes. AV realized this, hopefully Tortorella gets it through his head.

did you even listen to what Torts said? Most of the extra minutes (1-2 mins for christ's sake) was played at the end of games in tight situations. Torts did what he had to do at the beginning of the season because the third line hadn't established itself well enough and the 4th line, well, was the 4th line. And despite all of this, the Sedins didn't take too many defensive zone starts either compared to latter years. Add the fact that these guys are pro athletes in superb shape- they should be able to handle it. So this claim that Tortorella overworked the Sedins just sounds ridiculous. If anything, it puts sharp focus on Torts comments about the team lacking proper depth to roll 4 lines in critical game situations.

[SuperReverb2]

annnnnd. it also shows that the Sedins are a part of the clubs PAST, not the FUTURE. Granted they still have roles to play on the team, but I would be hard pressed to think that anybody in their right (management) mind would think those would be major roles. The NHL is changing. Obvious to see. Torts tried to get the Sedins to change their game to suit the CURRENT (and most likely future) NHL with horrific results, yet other YOUNGER players excelled under the "new" system. Might give the Sedins the benefit of the doubt had they not been in decline since the cup run, but sadly they have with this year showing how truly one dimensional they really are. Seriously time for a change with Torts leading the way.

[DeNiro]

annnnnd. it also shows that the Sedins are a part of the clubs PAST, not the FUTURE. Granted they still have roles to play on the team, but I would be hard pressed to think that anybody in their right (management) mind would think those would be major roles. The NHL is changing. Obvious to see. Torts tried to get the Sedins to change their game to suit the CURRENT (and most likely future) NHL with horrific results, yet other YOUNGER players excelled under the "new" system. Might give the Sedins the benefit of the doubt had they not been in decline since the cup run, but sadly they have with this year showing how truly one dimensional they really are. Seriously time for a change with Torts leading the way.

No, the Sedins are part of the PRESENT. Not sure what world you're living in.

Of course they're going to be playing major roles. They're still going to have to drive our offense whether it be on the powerplay, or even strength. We don't have rookies that can step up and provide offense for us yet, and Kesler definitely can't carry the workload.

The NHL really hasn't changed. You win by scoring goals. It has always been that way and always will be. The lack of a powerplay this season is what hurt this team, and in turn the Sedins numbers. This teams success a couple years back was driven mostly by a potent powerplay. The team needs to get back to that.

Tanev and Kassian were really the only younger players that thrived this year. The rest of the team looked beat up and worn down. So if you wanna hail Tortorella and his system, well that's nice. But unfortunately the players have to buy into that system and be able to play it. So without overhauling 90% of the roster, that's not gonna happen. Therefore a coaching change is the most likely course.

[DeNiro]

did you even listen to what Torts said? Most of the extra minutes (1-2 mins for christ's sake) was played at the end of games in tight situations. Torts did what he had to do at the beginning of the season because the third line hadn't established itself well enough and the 4th line, well, was the 4th line. And despite all of this, the Sedins didn't take too many defensive zone starts either compared to latter years. Add the fact that these guys are pro athletes in superb shape- they should be able to handle it. So this claim that Tortorella overworked the Sedins just sounds ridiculous. If anything, it puts sharp focus on Torts comments about the team lacking proper depth to roll 4 lines in critical game situations.

I could care less what Torts said. The guy will say anything to save his job.

The bottom line is, he came in with his idea of what the team should be and tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. He failed miserably.

Without changing the vast majority of the lineup (which is impossible with contract situations), I don't see him having any success with this current team.

[Angry Goose]

I could care less what Torts said. The guy will say anything to save his job.

The bottom line is, he came in with his idea of what the team should be and tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. He failed miserably.

Without changing the vast majority of the lineup (which is impossible with contract situations), I don't see him having any success with this current team.

blah blah blah. so give up on Torts vision because the roster is inept to do so? No, I would rather see some serious change than try and attempt any band aid solution with coaching. Might not happen right away but Torts brings a vision and style of play that VAN needs.

[Me_]

I'm beginning to think that Trevor Linden might be basing his decisions (hoping not) on information gleaned from the wrong players on the current Canucks roster. Yes. I am saying the Sedins are at the top of this list, and I'm saying this because many have speculated that Trevor will base his decisions (ultimately) on what the Sedins tell him. These decisions could not only affect the coach, but other players, and potential player moves as well. I would hope that he enters this with an open mind, and at the end of the day, judge who and how many benefitted from Torts being coach (had good years) and who and how many didn't benefit from Torts being the coach. Pretty sure he might find that the number of players that benefitted from Torts being the coach is bigger than he thought and just very well may be larger than the group that didn't benefit from Torts being the coach. Obviously the Sedins had a horrid year as well as Hansen, and Edler. On the flip side Santorelli was great, Kesler, Kassian and Booth (at the end) excelled, Hamhuis had a great year, Jensen and Matthias looked good in spurts, Lack seemed to thrive on the workload, Tanev played well, Bieksa was ok, and I'm sure there are a few others I've missed.

My point being is: Do we want to rely on players opinions who are in the twilight of their career (yes the Sedins) who have played one way their entire career (make a play at the blue line - cycle in the opposition end) over players that are younger and seemed to have excelled under Torts leadership when asked to play the style of (different) hockey that Torts feels is relevant to the CURRENT NHL style of play? When pondering this, one must also take into account that the "Sedin's" style of play didn't just evaporate this year and has been on the decline under AV as well since the 2011 cup run.

On Henrik, when asked a question he tends to hesitate when he doesn't agree. When asked about Tortorella, Henrik didn't hesitate one bit on goin to bat for his coach. I don't think it was a ruse.

[Me_]

blah blah blah. so give up on Torts vision because the roster is inept to do so? No, I would rather see some serious change than try and attempt any band aid solution with coaching. Might not happen right away but Torts brings a vision and style of play that VAN needs.

I agree. Let's face it. The Canucks don't have the personnel to compete with the top Divisional teams. Changing the coach won't fix anything. Tortorella's in your face grinding style is exactly how the Pacific Division plays.

[DeNiro]

blah blah blah. so give up on Torts vision because the roster is inept to do so? No, I would rather see some serious change than try and attempt any band aid solution with coaching. Might not happen right away but Torts brings a vision and style of play that VAN needs.

Umm yes when you don't have the roster to match a coaches style, and the vast majority of the team has NTC's, then you do change coaches.

Honestly some fans are too in love with Torts personality that it's blinding them to the facts. The fact is Tortorella coaches a style of hockey that was never going to mesh with our roster. The band aid solution was bringing him in and thinking that his yelling and charisma could somehow spark life into this team. It didn't work.

There is more than one style of play that wins hockey games contrary to the popular belief that's going on. You need size and toughness yes, but you also need speed and skill. It's not black and white. This season we could very well see another skilled team hoist the cup for the second year in a row, yet some people are still caught up with the Bruins model of winning it.

[Me_]

I could care less what Torts said. The guy will say anything to save his job.

The bottom line is, he came in with his idea of what the team should be and tried to fit a square peg into a round hole. He failed miserably.

Without changing the vast majority of the lineup (which is impossible with contract situations), I don't see him having any success with this current team.

Do you really think if Tortorella was trying to save his job he would have said what he said at his final pres conference?

He spoke the truth and that might seal his fate. But he didn't wince words just to save his job.

The square peg round hole idea is TSN jibberish. Get your own ideas.

Tortorella won't have any success with this current team. You're right. No other coach can fix it either. The Canucks are a broken stale bunch living in the past. But that will change regardless whether Tortorella is the coach or not.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well the Canucks are broken and they severely need fixing.

[DeNiro]

I agree. Let's face it. The Canucks don't have the personnel to compete with the top Divisional teams. Changing the coach won't fix anything. Tortorella's in your face grinding style is exactly how the Pacific Division plays.

Except LA is the only team in the division that plays that way.

San Jose and Anaheim both play an up-tempo transition game. And contrary to popular belief, they have smaller skilled guys throughout their lineup.

Not that you only have to beat teams in your division. You have to be able to beat teams outside your division too. Colorado, Chicago, and Dallas also play fast paced transition hockey. Thinking you can grin these teams down with the skill and speed they have, is the worst strategy ever. These teams will dance around our guys if they simply sit back and block shots.

Teams that push the pace are teams that win in this league. Grinding out defensive hockey only works if you've got the shutdown D-men and forwards to play that way. The Canucks don't.

They'll have success by adding more speed and playing an uptempo game. Not by getting bigger and trying to slow things down.

[Me_]

WTF is this? Do you have proof? Which players? Or are these just cold hard lies?

I understood his post perfectly. Calm down, read it again, an realize that, that is good and clear English.

[Angry Goose]

Umm yes when you don't have the roster to match a coaches style, and the vast majority of the team has NTC's, then you do change coaches.

Honestly some fans are too in love with Torts personality that it's blinding them to the facts. The fact is Tortorella coaches a style of hockey that was never going to mesh with our roster. The band aid solution was bringing him in and thinking that his yelling and charisma could somehow spark life into this team. It didn't work.

There is more than one style of play that wins hockey games contrary to the popular belief that's going on. You need size and toughness yes, but you also need speed and skill. It's not black and white. This season we could very well see another skilled team hoist the cup for the second year in a row, yet some people are still caught up with the Bruins model of winning it.

Do you seriously think that another coach, one that coaches like AV did is going to make the Canucks truly a competitive playoff team? This team as it is now, is cooked, and needs to change. A new coach isn't going to change that fact.

And about the whole speed and skill/ size and toughness claim, Torts coaching philosophy doesn't separate the two at all. If anything, his coaching style requires 200 foot players that can do both. I would argue the Sedins fit Torts mold of a tough skilled players given how they play in the offensive zone along the boards and in front of the net. I seriously question whether you understand Torts hockey systems and coaching philosophy at all.

As for the Bruins, they have speed, skill and toughness. The fact that they are always in the conversation as cup contenders just goes to show that they have a winning formula, and an entertaining one at that.

[DeNiro]

Do you really think that if Tortorella was trying to save his job that he would have said what he said at his final pres conference?

He spoke the truth and that might seal his fate. But he didn't wince words just to save his job.

The square peg round hole idea is TSN jibberish. Get your own ideas.

Tortorella won't have any success with this current team. You're right. No other coach can fix it either. The Canucks are a broken stale bunch living in the past. But that will change regardless whether Tortorella is the coach or not.

If it ain't broke, don't fix it. Well the Canucks are broken and they severely need fixing.

Yes he did. He said the core was stale and he didn't have the depth. I don't know about you, but that sounds like trying to save your job. The truth is he could never get on the same page as his players from December on. That's on him.

If he's such a great coach, he would have found a way to produce wins. His best effort to get the team back on track was to storm Calgary's dressing room, which was an embarrassment to the whole organization.

A square peg into a round whole isn't TSN jibberish, it's exactly what happened. I think some people have a different idea of what entertainment is though. It's like they're fine with having a losing team as long as the coach is entertaining. It's ridiculous.

The team has the pieces to win, but they need to be supplemented by youth and skill. Thinking that Tortorella is all of a sudden going to be able to coach this team because we make a few changes is silly. And at this point, there is only a few changes that can be made. One of them being a coaching change.

[DeNiro]

Do you seriously think that another coach, one that coaches like AV did is going to make the Canucks truly a competitive playoff team? This team as it is now, is cooked, and needs to change. A new coach isn't going to change that fact.

And about the whole speed and skill/ size and toughness claim, Torts coaching philosophy doesn't separate the two at all. If anything, his coaching style requires 200 foot players that can do both. I would argue the Sedins fit Torts mold of a tough skilled players given how they play in the offensive zone along the boards and in front of the net. I seriously question whether you understand Torts hockey systems and coaching philosophy at all.

As for the Bruins, they have speed, skill and toughness. The fact that they are always in the conversation as cup contenders just goes to show that they have a winning formula, and an entertaining one at that.

Did I say that a coaching change is all it will take to make this team competitive? No. Obviously they need a shakeup, and some youth in the lineup. But people who think that this teams problems were caused by a few "stale" core players are naive. Their problems ran all the way from their powerplay, down to their ability to clear the puck out of their zone.

I don't think you understand Tortorella's "system" if you think it was a winning formula. His "system" revolved around chipping pucks out of our zone, chipping pucks deep, and forechecking. That's not a system that will win you hockey games. That's a system that will give the other team possession the majority of the game. Which is what we saw this season.

Tortorella's coaching is based on philosophy. He said it himself. He's not an "x's and o's guy". The problem is that this team is an x's and o's team that were developed mostly by AV; who is a details oriented coach. That's why we saw so many of our players look lost as to what their roles were this season.

Tortorella may very well be a great coach with the right team, but it certainly isn't this one. This team is built on a foundation of skill and puck possession, not one of chip, chase, and grind.

[Angry Goose]

Yes he did. He said the core was stale and he didn't have the depth. I don't know about you, but that sounds like trying to save your job. The truth is he could never get on the same page as his players from December on. That's on him.

If he's such a great coach, he would have found a way to produce wins. His best effort to get the team back on track was to storm Calgary's dressing room, which was an embarrassment to the whole organization.

A square peg into a round whole isn't TSN jibberish, it's exactly what happened. I think some people have a different idea of what entertainment is though. It's like they're fine with having a losing team as long as the coach is entertaining. It's ridiculous.

The team has the pieces to win, but they need to be supplemented by youth and skill. Thinking that Tortorella is all of a sudden going to be able to coach this team because we make a few changes is silly. And at this point, there is only a few changes that can be made. One of them being a coaching change.

Ridiculous. You sound more like someone who is trying to save face, not Torts.

Put it this way, Caryle is a good coach as well. If TOR replaced him half way through the season do you think that would have guaranteed the leafs not collapsing at the end of season? Of course not, because most of the responsibility HAS to fall on the players. It is not like the coaches are trying to get them to do things they haven't been doing since they were playing minor hockey. Players have to be able to execute, and I would argue TOR's free fall is much like VAN's, the players simply couldn't execute. Maybe TOR needs to soften it's coaching style as well hmmmmm?

The NTC's VAN has could make the situation difficult- I guess that falls upon the new GM to figure out. Like Torts said, anyone who thinks next year is going to be the opposite of this year suffers from wishfull thinking, it's going to be a process that takes some time.

[Angry Goose]

Did I say that a coaching change is all it will take to make this team competitive? No. Obviously they need a shakeup, and some youth in the lineup. But people who think that this teams problems were caused by a few "stale" core players are naive. Their problems ran all the way from their powerplay, down to their ability to clear the puck out of their zone.

I don't think you understand Tortorella's "system" if you think it was a winning formula. His "system" revolved around chipping pucks out of our zone, chipping pucks deep, and forechecking. That's not a system that will win you hockey games. That's a system that will give the other team possession the majority of the game. Which is what we saw this season.

Tortorella's coaching is based on philosophy. He said it himself. He's not an "x's and o's guy". The problem is that this team is an x's and o's team that were developed mostly by AV; who is a details oriented coach. That's why we saw so many of our players look lost as to what their roles were this season.

Tortorella may very well be a great coach with the right team, but it certainly isn't this one. This team is built on a foundation of skill and puck possession, not one of chip, chase, and grind.

If the PP had any success this year it could have been a winning season. Problem is, the players were miserable at it. Garrison was hugely disappointing, and the Sedins couldn't create scoring chances. That is a major problem they need to fix (the fact that Hank and Daniel can't shoot for shit doesn't help). I wouldn't lump the blame on Torts- look at hoe well Newel Brown's PP in PHX did this season.

Are you kidding me? Do you play hockey? Dumping pucks in the offensive zone certainly works, and it is a tool that has to be used, but you have to have players who work together and know how to do it. Before all the injuries guys like Santorelli were doing an excellent job at it. And it is not like Torts forces the Sedins to do it either. They can certainly gain the zone without having to dump the puck in.

You want to keep the team as is and try a different coach is fine. But don't be surprised by another boring, let down season of hockey next year.