Baggins Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 I disagree. Maybe they weren't completely reliant on Ehrhoff, but go back and check how many of his goals in his career season were either tips in front of the net, or rebounds off the pads. You need a defenseman that can get the puck on net at the perfect height for those goals to be scored. Ehrhoff was a master at getting pucks on net. Garrison and Edler on the other hand couldn't hit the net all season. More of their shots went off of forwards shin pads than anywhere near the net. Kesler PP goals: 09/10 - 12 g (2nd unit no Ehrhoff) 2:45pp ice time per game 10/11 - 15 g (1st unit with Ehrhoff) 3:37 pp ice time per game Was his whopping 3 pp goal increase really due to Ehrhoff or the 33% increase in pp ice time combined with having the Sedins as linemates? I really do believe Ehrhoff is getting far too much credit on this board. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Kesler PP goals: 09/10 - 12 g (2nd unit no Ehrhoff) 2:45pp ice time per game 10/11 - 15 g (1st unit with Ehrhoff) 3:37 pp ice time per game Was his whopping 3 pp goal increase really due to Ehrhoff or the 33% increase in pp ice time combined with having the Sedins as linemates? I really do believe Ehrhoff is getting far too much credit on this board. No cause Salo filled the role of Ehrhoff in 09/10. I said it wasn't completely Ehrhoff, but the importance of having a defenseman that can get the puck through should never be understated. Try and keep up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Do you have a link to a quote for this? Not trying to cross examine, but I would like to see it. It would back up the speculation that the teams leadership wants Torts gone. Kesler in particular, and that his "trade demand" was a political powerplay against the coach. Unfortunately, I can't find the exact quote I seem to remember. So, in fairness, I may simply be misremembering it. It's possible I read a partial quote from Torts' end of season interview where he was asked about the blue line and Edler specifically and for some unknown reason answered talking mostly about Kesler and that I misunderstood (or the article I remember but can't find misrepresented) that as him saying he had trouble reaching Kesler as well. Here's the actual quote from his end of season interview (starting just past the 19 minute mark.) "Alex Edler and Ryan Kesler was a big part of my job, trying to get them back to playing. Kes and I have a tremendous relationship. You guys think we hate one another, we don't speak, but we have a tremendous relationship. We have a very honest relationship. I think he has stood in there and played hard every night. Does he make mistakes? Does he hold onto the puck too long sometimes? Does he make a... Everybody does that. But he has played hard every night. I think he's had a really good year. Eds is a guy that I couldn't, I didn't get to. And that's part of my job, that's part of my responsibility is somehow try to release him because I think it's a mental thing." His words are pretty complimentary towards Kes for sure, but the fact that when asked about the blue line and Elder specifically, a player he admits failing to reach, he ends up talking about Kesler is a bit odd. Of course, that's more of a head scratcher than proof of a bad relationship. There are a few quotes from Kes that might indicate issues between them. For example, Kesler was quoted in a January article talking about how "pissed off" he was at how he and the rest of the team were playing, going on to say, “We need to practise. Practise makes perfect and that gains confidence for the game.” That could indicate a problem with Torts' coaching decisions and lack of leadership. (Notably, Torts himself admits he didn't lead the team like he should have in the last half of the season, saying in his end of season interview, “I was coaching the team properly in the first half but after we got banged up I didn’t stay in the room enough pounding away at details, I gave the room to the veteran players too early. I respected a veteran team and took a step back. You guy’s think I’m hard, I wasn’t hard enough.” That's actually ironic given that Kesler was quoted in March praising Vigneault, saying, "He did a great job of giving us the (locker-room).") Also, in a February article Kes was quoted talking about being unhappy that his A was taken away, saying, “I think it really does me no good to comment on that. Obviously, I was hurt at the time and I have talked to Torts about it and everything is fine there.” That may be true that everything is fine between them, but it does beg the question of why the A was taken away to begin with. Still, that's far from proof that their relationship is actually bad behind the scenes. It's probably something we just can't know right now. As for whether or not Kesler asked for a trade in a bid to get rid of Torts, I don't know. According to Louis Jean, who I believe was the origin the rumors, the supposed Kesler trade request dated back to the beginning of the season (but of course wasn't reported about until after the Olympics.) So, even if he had asked for a trade there's no way to know if it was part of a move to get rid of Torts or even if he's changed his mind since then. I would assume most veteran players with families are better off passing on the world's. The body takes time to recover and a long off season every now and then goes a long way towards extending a NHL career. Really surprised Bieksa is going. He has recent injuries and kids, Yeah, hopefully. I guess I'm just surprised, given that he's such a competitor and after a disappointing season and Olympics (despite being one of if not the best player on Team USA), that he didn't jump at the chance for something good to come from this year. Still, I freely admit it could be as simple as him being tired or just needing some time off with his family. I'm more surprised Burrows is going given all of his injuries and seemingly endless bad luck this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Really hope we do a mini rebuild Theodore Rakell Ott 1st For Kesler Sproul 1st/Jurco For Edler Sedin Sedin Burrows Booth Rakell Kassian Higgins Matthias Horvat Archibald Richardson Hansen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moonshinefe Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Unless the returns are crazy good, it'd be a mistake letting go of Kesler. This team is way better with him on it. He plays in all situations for us, burns huge minutes and often plays against the other team's top players. Our whole team had a horrid year offensively and he missed 5 games but he still managed 25 goals. He'll be hitting 30+ goals again I'm fairly confident. If we could get a 20-30+ goal scoring winger for him that can make plays / create space via free agency, our second line will be solid next season. Let's not forget Santorelli will be back and Jensen / Kassian are ready to make bigger impacts. People forget for the first half of the season the Canucks were one of the better teams in the NHL. We just need to play a less injury prone style of game, add in additional secondary scoring, and maybe get a puck moving D-man (dish off Edler if possible?) and I think we contend again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Baggins Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 No cause Salo filled the role of Ehrhoff in 09/10. I said it wasn't completely Ehrhoff, but the importance of having a defenseman that can get the puck through should never be understated. Try and keep up. Ehrhoffs shooting 10/11 Shot on goal = 209 Shots taken = 307 % of shots taken being on goal = 68.1% Garrisons shooting 13/14 Shots on goal = 181 Shots taken = 260 % of shots taken being on goal = 69.6% Ehrhoff is a god, Garrison can't hit the net. Funny how perceptions work here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB007 Posted April 26, 2014 Share Posted April 26, 2014 Unless the returns are crazy good, it'd be a mistake letting go of Kesler. This team is way better with him on it. He plays in all situations for us, burns huge minutes and often plays against the other team's top players. Our whole team had a horrid year offensively and he missed 5 games but he still managed 25 goals. He'll be hitting 30+ goals again I'm fairly confident. If we could get a 20-30+ goal scoring winger for him that can make plays / create space via free agency, our second line will be solid next season. Let's not forget Santorelli will be back and Jensen / Kassian are ready to make bigger impacts. People forget for the first half of the season the Canucks were one of the better teams in the NHL. We just need to play a less injury prone style of game, add in additional secondary scoring, and maybe get a puck moving D-man (dish off Edler if possible?) and I think we contend again. Yeah I mostly agree. We have a pretty good team at full strength. And now with Mattias and Jensen, our secondary scoring is more secured. IMO we need a big shut down Dman, more than a puck mover. I would love to have Orpiks in Canucks uni though I don't think we have the cap room unless we trade a sizeable contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nino Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Kesler plays through injuries when things matter, and he performs just fine. He's not 30 yet. There's still game in him. Imagine the Ducks rolling out Getzlaf's line and then Kesler's right after. Who are we going to throw over the boards against them, Henrik and Horvat? Let's not kid ourselves. Horvat is a good prospect, but it'll be a few years until he gets to where Kesler is. Trading Kesler to Anaheim is signing off on our playoff hopes LONG-TERM. Without Kesler, we are not going to make the playoffs for the next 4-5 years. San Jose has Thornton, Couture and Pavelski. LA has Kopitar, Richards and Stoll. Anaheim right now has Getzlaf and Koivu. Keeping Kesler is the only way we remain somewhat competitive in the Pacific division. I don't think he will stay after his contract is up. If he walks and there is a good chance he will then keeping kess is a sure way to be sure we don't remain competitive in the pacific division. To me it's to risky you have a player that there is a good amount of speculation that he wants out, add to that he has a history of accepting offers from other teams and you think keeping him in a rebuild year is helpfull? We will get a lot more for him the earlier we trade him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tearloch7 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Ehrhoffs shooting 10/11 Shot on goal = 209 Shots taken = 307 % of shots taken being on goal = 68.1% Garrisons shooting 13/14 Shots on goal = 181 Shots taken = 260 % of shots taken being on goal = 69.6% Ehrhoff is a god, Garrison can't hit the net. Funny how perceptions work here. Man, I love it when 'perspective' is added, and the room goes quiet while a new 'angle is discovered', to justify ones erroneous assumptions .. well done, Sir .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Kesler has to go, he makes no one around him better. He still gets his points and everyone else struggles. Time for the offensive pick hog to go, 3 years too late Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 As aggressively as teams were pursuing Kesler, you gotta think a trade is going to happen, likely at the draft. Plus it's likely best, the last few teams winning the cup have had cores made up mostly of players in their twenties. Kes has already said no to CBJ, NYR and Phi, here are the likely teams and what they have to offer: Ana, most likely I think, vatanen, etem, smith-pelly, palmieri, silverberg, 10th pick LA, Toffoli(not likely), Pearson, King, Muzzin Chi, Teravainen, Shaw, Clendening, McNeil, Morin StL, Schwartz, Tarasenko, Rattie, Shattenkirk Pit, Pouliot, Sutter, Bennett, Det, Jurco, Mantha, Tatar, Dekeyser TB, don't think they'd be interest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Kesler has to go, he makes no one around him better. He still gets his points and everyone else struggles. Time for the offensive pick hog to go, 3 years too late You would have traded him after the Boston series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mpt Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 You would have traded him after the Boston series? Yes, go through the archive and you can find it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Kesler has to go, he makes no one around him better. He still gets his points and everyone else struggles. Time for the offensive pick hog to go, 3 years too late Agreed...Canucks play better as a team without Kesler in the line up. Wonder why that is? Kesler is made out of glass and if the Canucks are to move forward with changes to the core, IMO, it's Kesler, Burrows, and Edler that needs to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Yes, go through the archive and you can find it So after this team had it's most successful regular season ever and came within one game of winning it all you would have traded away arguably the team's best player? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgerKing Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Ehrhoffs shooting 10/11 Shot on goal = 209 Shots taken = 307 % of shots taken being on goal = 68.1% Garrisons shooting 13/14 Shots on goal = 181 Shots taken = 260 % of shots taken being on goal = 69.6% Ehrhoff is a god, Garrison can't hit the net. Funny how perceptions work here. I enjoyed the above exchange. I've been on this forum for a couple weeks, I cannot believe the crap some people post on here without any logic or explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 I would trade kesler ow in a heartbeat if the offer was good. And I have his jersey on my wall Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostsof1915 Posted April 27, 2014 Share Posted April 27, 2014 Ehrhoffs shooting 10/11 Shot on goal = 209 Shots taken = 307 % of shots taken being on goal = 68.1% Garrisons shooting 13/14 Shots on goal = 181 Shots taken = 260 % of shots taken being on goal = 69.6% Ehrhoff is a god, Garrison can't hit the net. Funny how perceptions work here. Best of all you're not evening pointing out how horrible Ehrhoff is defensively. Well done sir! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Crimson-JH Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I'm going to bump this as a reminder, because there are idiot are coming up with rubbish redundancy trades clogging up the Canucks section of the forum... Kesler said it loud and clear that he wanted to stay and retire as a Canuck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted April 28, 2014 Share Posted April 28, 2014 I'm going to bump this as a reminder, because there are idiot are coming up with rubbish redundancy trades clogging up the Canucks section of the forum... Kesler said it loud and clear that he wanted to stay and retire as a Canuck! Are u saying that no player, has ever said they want to stay but are traded? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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