Canucks prospect Bo Horvat primed for rookie showcase

[KassianBeastMode]

Horvat would be perfect here down the road if we had a franchise-level centerman in front of him. But a franchise-level centerman changes everything about the teams' future, not just Horvat's.

Yes Horvat is not a 1c. He is a 2c potential. He could be an adequate 1c between two high scoring wingers as Morrison was, as Krejci is, but I agree it really would be nice to have a guy in the middle who is a dominate offensive player who can 'drive the play' as the 1c.

I've never been a fan of the 'adequate' center as your 1c. Then again, look at Toews (not saying Horvat is Toews) but he certainly isn't a flashy offensive player and doesn't put up huge points, but he sure does win!

It all really depends on the mix and the group. Wingers can be playmakers as well (Kassian). And lets also see what Vey has! From everything I read about that guy, we might actually have our 1c in him. What they write about him really reminds me a bit of Sakic (again, he isn't Joe Sakic but his style of play sounds very similar and apparently he is incredible at creating opportunities for other players).

A future lineup of

Shinkaruk Horvat Kassian

Jensen Vey McCann

Gaunce Cassells Fox

or

Shinkruk Vey Kassian

Jensen Horvat McCann

Gaunce Cassells Fox

Isn't that bad...all have hands, can skate, grit...a few snipers in there and alot of size, speed and heart....that's a tougher line up to deal with than a great 1c and then a drop off.

Given the above, I actually prefer Horvat as the 1c and allow Nazzy and Bert - err Shink and Kassian..to cheat a bit

[TOMapleLaughs]

With all due respect, if Horvat won't be a 1c, what makes anyone think Vey will?

["Bull" Horvat]

As fans I think we should support Bo rather than doubt because we're no judges, no scouts, no decision makers. The team will do what's best for his progress whether it's the O, N or Euro leagues.

We can discuss all possibilities and outcomes but at the end of the day it's all sharing thoughts and no need to get all rattled up about it.

[KassianBeastMode]

With all due respect, if Horvat won't be a 1c, what makes anyone think Vey will?

Vey has played 4 years in the AHL and put up a PPG pace. That's better than Ryan Strome

He also put up > 100 pts in the WHL (sure as an overager) but its clear he has offensive talents and instincts, read his scouting report...he is clearly a 'potential' 1c

He as drafted in the second round as well....time will tell as none of us have seen him play but if you read his scouting reports he certainly has 1c potential

[KassianBeastMode]

As fans I think we should support Bo rather than doubt because we're no judges, no scouts, no decision makers. The team will do what's best for his progress whether it's the O, N or Euro leagues.

We can discuss all possibilities and outcomes but at the end of the day it's all sharing thoughts and no need to get all rattled up about it.

exactly! Lets just be excited that at least down the road we have a great group of prospects are in much better shape than 2 years ago, and after this year our crop will be even stronger given Benning and Linden know what they are doing.

I was just looking at our depth on cap geek. If any of

Shink, Jensen, Horvat, Vey really push this year and steal a spot there is alot of depth and issues (ie some vets are going to be gone)...

I didn't realize but Richie and Matthias are UFA's this year. As I said on another thread, the fact Richie is, explains a great deal why they want Horvat to push.

Richie is the type of player that every team that is contending will drool over come trade deadline. A natural 4c who can eat minutes but can slide into the 3c slot very easily, great in the circle, plays a hard/heavy game, kills PK's etc. I LOVE the way this guy competes and I am certain every team that is running for the cup would want him

In a deep draft, as a UFA, he is certainly trade bait, and given Matthias is bigger and younger, and Benning wanted him in Boston, I see them re-signing him prior to end of year vs Richie who they may cut bait with if Horvat can play.

Further, if Jensen or Shink can push or both, wow...then alot of moves are coming...regardless. This year or next the makeup of this team will change dramatically as these names will start playing...

I suspect Higgins, Hansen, and potentially Burrows may not be here beyond next season....

[aGENT]

You think he is magically gonna turn on a switch and start lighting it up against pros, when he can't even score on kids??

Plain and simple the kid is not ready and everyone needs to stop thinking he is some kind of offensive juggernaut that's gonna come in and lite the league up. It's just not gonna happen, he's not that type of player.

Somebody hasn't been paying attention.

Anybody suggesting it's possible he makes the big club this season are only suggesting it because of his defensive and board play and (at least in Jr's) ability to win faceoffs (we'll soon find out if that translates to the NHL level).

I've seen literally no one suggest he's going to "light it up". If he makes it, it will be because of his defensive play, not his offensive play.

[TOMapleLaughs]

Vey has played 4 years in the AHL and put up a PPG pace. That's better than Ryan Strome

He also put up > 100 pts in the WHL (sure as an overager) but its clear he has offensive talents and instincts, read his scouting report...he is clearly a 'potential' 1c

He as drafted in the second round as well....time will tell as none of us have seen him play but if you read his scouting reports he certainly has 1c potential

I think he's clearly a 1c... In the AHL... at this point but most legit 1c's at the NHL level start their NHL careers a lot sooner than Vey.

At this point the potential of Horvat becoming a 1c is greater than Vey's. (He was a 4th rounder. And I don't think anyone ever saw him as an NHL 1c.) Ryan Strome, however, has seen a far quicker development curve and looks alright. He's a #5 overall pick.

I don't want to rain all over the Linden Vey parade, but he definitely wasn't what I was referring to when I said Horvat would be perfect here behind a franchise-level center.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Lol...sorry but you're wrong. I was a fan back then and thats 'EXACTLY' what he was projected as. A great third line checking center and in fact when Bobby Clarke signed him to a 1+ mil offer sheet, many fans said heck let him go, that's way too much money for him...

I am certain many here who were fans can concur with that statement.

Agree OHL scoring means little but the point is skills, and having seen both Kesler as a rookie and now Horvat, Horvat has much better offensive instincts, is as good defensively but just not as swift a skater but has NHL skating ability.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/8679/canucks200506_rookie_review/

please read if you don't believe me

Quote:

"Overall Kesler’s play left a lot to be desired and there is no question that he needs to demonstrate

greater offensive flair if he hopes to be more than a third liner and penalty killer.

The outlook for Kesler is not clear at this point. It is clear he is an NHL-caliber player and will play in the league for a long time: yes. However, it is up to him to determine if his role with the Canucks will be as a checker or a scorer”

Yes when Kelser was drafted his potential was to be pegged to be a 3rd line checking center. Even a few years into the league he still wasn't said to be more. it really wasn't until after philly offered him 1.9 for 3 years that he started becoming the true 2nd line center that was 5 years after he was drafted when he was 24 years of age and horvat is what 19. Lots time for him to grow into that position.

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Yes Horvat is not a 1c. He is a 2c potential. He could be an adequate 1c between two high scoring wingers as Morrison was, as Krejci is, but I agree it really would be nice to have a guy in the middle who is a dominate offensive player who can 'drive the play' as the 1c.

I've never been a fan of the 'adequate' center as your 1c. Then again, look at Toews (not saying Horvat is Toews) but he certainly isn't a flashy offensive player and doesn't put up huge points, but he sure does win!

It all really depends on the mix and the group. Wingers can be playmakers as well (Kassian). And lets also see what Vey has! From everything I read about that guy, we might actually have our 1c in him. What they write about him really reminds me a bit of Sakic (again, he isn't Joe Sakic but his style of play sounds very similar and apparently he is incredible at creating opportunities for other players).

A future lineup of

Shinkaruk Horvat Kassian

Jensen Vey McCann

Gaunce Cassells Fox

or

Shinkruk Vey Kassian

Jensen Horvat McCann

Gaunce Cassells Fox

Isn't that bad...all have hands, can skate, grit...a few snipers in there and alot of size, speed and heart....that's a tougher line up to deal with than a great 1c and then a drop off.

Given the above, I actually prefer Horvat as the 1c and allow Nazzy and Bert - err Shink and Kassian..to cheat a bit

Replace Jensen with Kane and were talking.

I suspect Higgins, Hansen, and potentially Burrows may not be here beyond next season....

Perhaps involved in some sort of deal for Kane? Say Burrows, Hansen, Jensen, Markstrom/Lack. Haha, I know you hate Kane, he'd still look good in a nuck uni

[KassianBeastMode]

Replace Jensen with Kane and were talking.

Not a fan of Kane too much attitude...and I am pretty sure Benning -given his old school mentality, trevor's squeeky clean focus, and what Benning said of Seguin's attitude, suggest they won't go after him

I also think there are too many other teams better positioned to offer WPG more if they indeed move him. Said it prior but think Edmonton (Yak plus for Kane? Winnipeg is happy in that they get a name back and 1st overall pick with elite skills who wants to be the star) or the Isles (Grabner or Strome as the center piece plus)....etc etc..

Too many teams have alot higher value players they can afford to give up for him....Can't see Winnipeg saying to no Yak plus a pick or other prospects vs Jensen, Hansen and a pick like many here suggesting (or some silly derivation)

[ForsbergTheGreat]

Not a fan of Kane too much attitude...and I am pretty sure Benning -given his old school mentality, trevor's squeeky clean focus, and what Benning said of Seguin's attitude, suggest they won't go after him

I also think there are too many other teams better positioned to offer WPG more if they indeed move him. Said it prior but think Edmonton (Yak plus for Kane? Winnipeg is happy in that they get a name back and 1st overall pick with elite skills who wants to be the star) or the Isles (Grabner or Strome as the center piece plus)....etc etc..

Too many teams have alot higher value players they can afford to give up for him....Can't see Winnipeg saying to no Yak plus a pick or other prospects vs Jensen, Hansen and a pick like many here suggesting (or some silly derivation)

I've heard the opposite of that.

"His agent has told him the Jets have gone back to at least 7 teams who expressed serious interest in him and the Canucks are one of the teams.

Now I don't know how this translates for the Canucks. I know Benning did pitch an offer that included Lack/Markstrom, a top prospect, a roster player and a 2016 1st. I heard they were pitching Burrows because of cap concerns but I think it was a Garrison situation in that they never discussed it with Alex first. But I don't know if they still have interest at this point. There seems to still be interest but they are not as actively pursuing it as they were before the draft. I think they are stoked by their draft picks and don't want to let any of then go.

The only thing I know for sure is Winnipeg wants the 2015 1st. Don't know who else they have asked for. Sounds like they are talking but that they are too far apart over Kane's value. Interesting though that it has come up again and this info comes second hand from the Kane camp. So take it for what it's worth......"

[KassianBeastMode]

I think he's clearly a 1c... In the AHL... at this point but most legit 1c's at the NHL level start their NHL careers a lot sooner than Vey.

At this point the potential of Horvat becoming a 1c is greater than Vey's. (He was a 4th rounder. And I don't think anyone ever saw him as an NHL 1c.) Ryan Strome, however, has seen a far quicker development curve and looks alright. He's a #5 overall pick.

I don't want to rain all over the Linden Vey parade, but he definitely wasn't what I was referring to when I said Horvat would be perfect here behind a franchise-level center.

Being a #5 overall pick doesn't have any bearing (Subban was taken 2nd round and won the Norris, Datsyuk was drafted in the 6th round, etc etc...you get my point, draft position means very little). Vey was a 2nd round pick so don't discount that he has skill.

Not that I am saying Vey is better than Strome but hey he has 4 yrs pro experience has shown he can play a pro game and excel at it, and has shown development at every level. Therefore, my arguement is its too early to say what his ceiling is as he has clearly broken through every expectation at every level and from what is being said about him he see's the ice very well, is a strong skater, great puck distributor and makes the players around him better....sounds like a 1c to me.

Again, I am just saying we don't know what we have there, as none of us have seen him play but it wouln't be that much of a surprise given his path thus far. Led the entire CHL in scoring, 4 yr pro with ppg in the AHL etc...those aren't abberations, they are proof he is excelling in an offensive role and is developing...so time will tell

[KassianBeastMode]

I've heard the opposite of that.

"His agent has told him the Jets have gone back to at least 7 teams who expressed serious interest in him and the Canucks are one of the teams.

Now I don't know how this translates for the Canucks. I know Benning did pitch an offer that included Lack/Markstrom, a top prospect, a roster player and a 2016 1st. I heard they were pitching Burrows because of cap concerns but I think it was a Garrison situation in that they never discussed it with Alex first. But I don't know if they still have interest at this point. There seems to still be interest but they are not as actively pursuing it as they were before the draft. I think they are stoked by their draft picks and don't want to let any of then go.

The only thing I know for sure is Winnipeg wants the 2015 1st. Don't know who else they have asked for. Sounds like they are talking but that they are too far apart over Kane's value. Interesting though that it has come up again and this info comes second hand from the Kane camp. So take it for what it's worth......"

heard where? eklund? Botchford? lol

We know that's bs since Burr has never been asked to waive, nor has his name been 'offered' to anyone and I know this as fact - as I know a few people close to this - extremely close

[TOMapleLaughs]

Being a #5 overall pick doesn't have any bearing (Subban was taken 2nd round and won the Norris, Datsyuk was drafted in the 6th round, etc etc...you get my point, draft position means very little). Vey was a 2nd round pick so don't discount that he has skill.

Not that I am saying Vey is better than Strome but hey he has 4 yrs pro experience has shown he can play a pro game and excel at it, and has shown development at every level. Therefore, my arguement is its too early to say what his ceiling is as he has clearly broken through every expectation at every level and from what is being said about him he see's the ice very well, is a strong skater, great puck distributor and makes the players around him better....sounds like a 1c to me.

Again, I am just saying we don't know what we have there, as none of us have seen him play but it wouln't be that much of a surprise given his path thus far. Led the entire CHL in scoring, 4 yr pro with ppg in the AHL etc...those aren't abberations, they are proof he is excelling in an offensive role and is developing...so time will tell

Agreed, but what matters is that the development curve is there. And with Strome, it has been quite a bit faster than Vey's, so I don't see a valid comparison there when it comes to who has more NHL 1c potential.

That's twice now you've said Vey was a 2nd round pick. Vey was a 4th round pick.

I've read that the general rule about developing players in the AHL is that by year 3 it's time for them to start producing at the NHL level. That was last season. Kings called him up, he scored 0g 5a in 18gp as a RW. They then traded him.

"Not quite defensively sound enough for an NHL 3rd line center, and not quite offensive enough to usurp someone like Jeff Carter for a 2C, Vey was squeezed out."

He clearly needs to be on a worse team, us, to get a better shot. But does any of that equate to him being a 1c in the NHL? I think that transition would be miraculous. (Or the NHL team that makes him a 1c is horrible.)

[ForsbergTheGreat]

heard where? eklund? Botchford? lol

We know that's bs since Burr has never been asked to waive, nor has his name been 'offered' to anyone and I know this as fact - as I know a few people close to this - extremely close

That quote said they didn't ask burrows,

I can see where you’re coming from but

I don’t see EDM offering Yak, oiler are going to find themselves in cap problems taking on another big contract, they screw themselves over this summer with the players they acquired and for the overpayments they handed out. Next year they got 3 players up for pay raises (yak included). Even with Yak if he has a decent year this year they will be in trouble, they can’t afford to pay him more than 3+ until a few of those dumb contracts (nikitnin, Purcell) they took on this year come off the books.

But would the Jets want him either. His play is too similar to their number 9 pick this year. If Jets want a return it’s likely coming back with a power forward type. Someone who’s strong on the puck, fast, and plays a similar offensive style to Kane considering their two top forward prospects are Petan and Ehlers. They could go after a single player like Strome (who NYI won’t give up, snow is happy with the progress he’s made, they’ve spent the time and resources developing him and they are very high him) Grabner hasn’t done anything the last two season to hold much value as a center piece anymore.

The way I look at is it, the jets could go after a big 1 for 1 deal and hope to replace the loss of Kane or they could attempt to fill multiple holes they have on their roster similar to what Boston got back with Seguin and canucks got back with Kelser. The jets need a biggish RW so big byf can go back to D or become trade bait at the deadline. And they also need a potential starter, someone to either push Pavelec to regain form or take over for him. They also have a terrible bottom 6.

Canucks have those pieces. I’d be hesitant to offer up a first round pick but Kane is already proven to be at worst a 2^nd line player with still tons of room to grow. Unless we end up with a top 5 pick there’s no guarantee that the pick would ever become what Kane already is. And benning would have bigger problems if this year’s team didn’t place higher than 5^th last.

If I’m kevin cheveldayoff, I trade both Kane and Byfuglien this year and try to build a much more complete team. Jets aren’t going to get a ton of UFA’s so make a trade and bring in all the players needed. By trading those two, they could get back 4-6 roster players (at least 3 being young players with their potential not yet reached ) and possibly 2 first round picks this year to add to their own (which likely will be a top 10 pick). They get all this, while staying somewhat competitive without gutting a team like the oilers did.

[EV604]

Ehlers and Godreau haven't faced a Ryan Miller either.

At least they scored

[Angry Goose]

Maybe people having a hard time with Bo's lack of flashy offense are probably the same types of people who hate watching 1-0, low scoring hockey games. Doesn't really bother me tho

[crazyforhockey]

Bo Horvat is realizing that coaches mgt are looking for solid 2 way hockey (emphaisis on defensive play for rookies--ie longest part of the game to develop for forward prospect)

It seemed he worked hard on keeping himself on the right side of the play more often(defensive) to support his linemates and his cause.

there is a logjam of bottom six defensive minded players right now that he has to match at the very least.

mathias,higgins,hansen,richardson,Vey,dorsett,possibly burrows,kassian depending on eventual seeding in top six

he can be a gritty scorer or gritty setup man....but he has to be very good 200' otherwise back to Junior

[Knucklehd]

Lol...sorry but you're wrong. I was a fan back then and thats 'EXACTLY' what he was projected as. A great third line checking center and in fact when Bobby Clarke signed him to a 1+ mil offer sheet, many fans said heck let him go, that's way too much money for him...

I am certain many here who were fans can concur with that statement.

Agree OHL scoring means little but the point is skills, and having seen both Kesler as a rookie and now Horvat, Horvat has much better offensive instincts, is as good defensively but just not as swift a skater but has NHL skating ability.

http://www.hockeysfuture.com/articles/8679/canucks200506_rookie_review/

please read if you don't believe me

Quote:

"Overall Keslers play left a lot to be desired and there is no question that he needs to demonstrate

greater offensive flair if he hopes to be more than a third liner and penalty killer.

The outlook for Kesler is not clear at this point. It is clear he is an NHL-caliber player and will play in the league for a long time: yes. However, it is up to him to determine if his role with the Canucks will be as a checker or a scorer

I remember this quite clearly

[Brockbuster]

Horvat showed nothing offensively again. I watched all 3 games and against the same level of players he had nothing to show. This is not to say he won't but we don't need another first rounder who is described a "potential solid 2 way player" We need a first rounder described as a "potential sniper or elite offensive player"