Avengers 2 trailer leaked early

[Dazzle]

nobody is saying they are better than you for enjoying it. however, you must recognize that when mindless entertainment starts getting massive praise ALMOST BY VIRTUE OF ITS MINDLESSNESS, to the point where it's being listed among the best movies of a generation (around here by the same crowd who cries about the state of the movie industry, no less) then you're going to have some 'fight' from those who are more cerebral film goers. i'm sorry that the word 'cerebral' in that sentence is probably going to offend you, but this is just the way art discussion has always been

and mythological and biblical tropes and plots have been copy/pasted into all forms of drama and art since their creation. just because one literally has a character in it named Thor doesn't mean that its audience is sharing something with the Norsemen who did something similar.

you're right that the movie does appeal to the senses, but i think that's been the appeal of movies from the very start

You're going to have people who overrate movies. For example, The Dark Knight is/was very good but it's incredibly overrated as a movie, which could also be blamed due to the death of Heath Ledger. Overrated doesn't always mean that it's a BAD movie. People rode the Nolan train and think he's the 'best director ever'. However, if you say "The Dark Knight is one of the better made movies in recent memory", that in itself is a lot more accurate and adds perspective.

So, you will have people that will say the Avengers is 'one of the best movies ever', which isn't entirely wrong. But if you say, "The Avengers is one of the best action sci-fi movies in recent memory", that in itself is an accurate statement. It can be statistically proven (i.e. box office sales, critic reviews, DVD sales etc)

Now that I've re-framed the discussion, it just appears that you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

What we're talking about is Avengers being a good movie for its genre. No one here right now is saying that it is Casablanca or Singing in The Rain calibre.

[Mr. Ambien]

You're going to have people who overrate movies. For example, The Dark Knight is/was very good but it's incredibly overrated as a movie, which could also be blamed due to the death of Heath Ledger. Overrated doesn't always mean that it's a BAD movie. People rode the Nolan train and think he's the 'best director ever'. However, if you say "The Dark Knight is one of the better made movies in recent memory", that in itself is a lot more accurate and adds perspective.

So, you will have people that will say the Avengers is 'one of the best movies ever', which isn't entirely wrong. But if you say, "The Avengers is one of the best action sci-fi movies in recent memory", that in itself is an accurate statement. It can be statistically proven (i.e. box office sales, critic reviews, DVD sales etc)

Now that I've re-framed the discussion, it just appears that you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

What we're talking about is Avengers being a good movie for its genre. No one here right now is saying that it is Casablanca or Singing in The Rain calibre.

Pretty much. Overrating is a high possibility when movie studios and PR spend 7 and 8 figures marketing the product. It's well established people tend to flock to the most highly marketed products.

Not exactly rocket science, but apparently good fodder for feeling superior, or just letting out some angst about.

[Dazzle]

For someone who cares so little about The Avengers, Glassjaw, you sure have a lot of negative things to say about it.

It doesn't mean that you're not entitled to your opinion. It's just that if you have an opinion, be sure to provide reasons.

Thats exactly what you said here:

I would add that he contradicts himself when he made the post that is slightly above the passage that you quoted. He said "I can't even get my head around the mental process".

Here is a sample:

second, i personally don't even know how someone can enjoy the Avengers, to be honest. like, i can't even get my head around the mental process that must be going on for someone

To analyze this, he is making a personal opinion, but the emphasis is on him unable to understand other people.

This either makes him seem better than everyone else who likes it or he's admitting that he's a dimwit with a low mental capacity. The tone of his posts in this thread is highly suggestive of the former.

[GLASSJAW]

Thats exactly what you said here:

that was an attempt at answering my own question about the thought process one must experience to enjoy the movie. because i know i'm funnier than the lot of you, i tried answer it in actual stream of consciousness style. it was a joke. it wasn't a declaration of definition for "better" or "worse" film goers. lmao. it was me positioning myself as DIFFERENT. not BETTER. DIFFERENT. obviously i like my taste more, which is why it's my taste. obviously he likes his more, which is why it's his. me calling him a monkey thrilled by fire is no different than him calling me a 'pseudo intellectual' for being bored with it -- considering the alternative options in this thread, by the way, it's a mantle i'll gladly wear despite its lack of clarification

but don't get me wrong, i think there is a fundamental difference between myself and an enthusiastic member of the Avengers audience. i tried to explain it after your quoting was cut off. whether you call it pretentiousness or refinement, i couldn't care less. when i watched it, me and my friend were rolling our eyes and elbow nudging nonstop. yeah, it's trash.

[Offensive Threat]

when i watched it, me and my friend were rolling our eyes and elbow nudging nonstop. yeah, it's trash.

I get it now. you and your friends are hipsters. Hate anything commercially successful. Cant stand anything with mass appeal. Probably only like indie films that saw very limited releases. Good, got it.

[GLASSJAW]

I get it now. you and your friends are hipsters. Hate anything commercially successful. Cant stand anything with mass appeal. Probably only like indie films that saw very limited releases. Good, got it.

whether you call it pretentiousness or refinement, i couldn't care less.

[FramingDragon]

that was an attempt at answering my own question about the thought process one must experience to enjoy the movie. because i know i'm funnier than the lot of you, i tried answer it in actual stream of consciousness style. it was a joke. it wasn't a declaration of definition for "better" or "worse" film goers. lmao. it was me positioning myself as DIFFERENT. not BETTER. DIFFERENT. obviously i like my taste more, which is why it's my taste. obviously he likes his more, which is why it's his. me calling him a monkey thrilled by fire is no different than him calling me a 'pseudo intellectual' for being bored with it -- considering the alternative options in this thread, by the way, it's a mantle i'll gladly wear despite its lack of clarification

but don't get me wrong, i think there is a fundamental difference between myself and an enthusiastic member of the Avengers audience. i tried to explain it after your quoting was cut off. whether you call it pretentiousness or refinement, i couldn't care less. when i watched it, me and my friend were rolling our eyes and elbow nudging nonstop. yeah, it's trash.

Yeah I don't know where the idea of needing to respect why someone might like something you clearly don't like comes from, and you shouldn't have to apologize for it just like I wouldn't ever apologize to someone for thinking less of their taste if they enjoyed Here Comes Honey Boo Boo. It is what it is.

I'm not going to pretend that I don't enjoy some films that are less thought provoking than Tree of Life but when self proclaimed action movie aficionados proclaim Avengers to be way above average even on a technical level, I laugh.

I can name multiple action (no, I don't think superheroes are deserving of their own genre) films in the past decade that have surpassed Avengers meager effort in every single fucking department.

The animation and special effects were downright cartoonish, I'll say Watchmen and Dredd integrated CGI far better with a much lower budget. It was genuinely fucking embarrassing to watch the last half hour with the Reboot style animation.

Oh, but you say the action was phenomenal as well. I take it you haven't seen 300, The Raid, The Dark Knight or even Skyfall. Avengers, even on a brainless action movie standpoint does not hold a candle to numerous films that have come out in this time frame

We're now left with character development and dialogue, both of which Robert Downey Jr. did the heavy lifting for and guess what, he has his own series that gives him far better screentime

As a movie goer sometimes I enjoy the most primal appeals in the theatre as it relates to sight and sound even if the movie sucks ass. The score for the Avengers is forgettable, and the cinematography at a technical level is amateur at best.

What are you left with then aside from an incredibly average movie even within the constraints of it's own genre?

This isn't about having differing tastes, this is about people who have such TINY scope even within the genre that they don't realize just how downright stupid they sound. I'd say the same to idiots who pretend Inception is the most intelligent movie to come out in recent memory. No, it isn't. You just haven't watched enough movies.

Mass reach =/= quality

90% of the world has probably eaten McDonalds. The 10% are probably dying from starvation. That don't make McDonalds amazing for what it is. Just stop, you are all embarrassing

[GLASSJAW]

You're going to have people who overrate movies. For example, The Dark Knight is/was very good but it's incredibly overrated as a movie, which could also be blamed due to the death of Heath Ledger. Overrated doesn't always mean that it's a BAD movie. People rode the Nolan train and think he's the 'best director ever'. However, if you say "The Dark Knight is one of the better made movies in recent memory", that in itself is a lot more accurate and adds perspective.

So, you will have people that will say the Avengers is 'one of the best movies ever', which isn't entirely wrong. But if you say, "The Avengers is one of the best action sci-fi movies in recent memory", that in itself is an accurate statement. It can be statistically proven (i.e. box office sales, critic reviews, DVD sales etc)

Now that I've re-framed the discussion, it just appears that you're arguing for the sake of arguing.

What we're talking about is Avengers being a good movie for its genre. No one here right now is saying that it is Casablanca or Singing in The Rain calibre.

never have i had a discussion about the movie where i was lead to believe there is an assumed asterisk attached to praising "The Avengers" that reads: 'i only like this movie in comparison to other crappy movies.' i do not believe warhippy is enjoying Avengers as a cool down from his Bergman binge.

but either way, i don't care if you're comparing Avengers to Casablanca or X-Men. a movie of cheap thrills is a movie of cheap thrills.a shallow movie is a shallow movie. comparing it to, and preferring it over, other movies from the plagued pool of "epic summer blockbuster action adventures" is like comparing broken bones; which is better, a broken femur or a broken skull or a broken ankle?

[ilduce39]

Didn't watch the trailer. Just going to guess what's in it:

*Boom*

*Look out!*

*Snarky comment by Robert Downey Junior*

*Hulk, smash*

*ScarJo dressed in tight clothing*

*Air Machines*

*Avengers form a circle, backs facing each other*

Can't friggin' wait! :D

[GLASSJAW]

Yeah I don't know where the idea of needing to respect why someone might like something you clearly don't like comes from, and you shouldn't have to apologize for it just like I wouldn't ever apologize to someone for thinking less of their taste if they enjoyed Here Comes Honey Boo Boo. It is what it is.

I'm not going to pretend that I don't enjoy some films that are less thought provoking than Tree of Life but when self proclaimed action movie aficionados proclaim Avengers to be way above average even on a technical level, I laugh.

I can name multiple action (no, I don't think superheroes are deserving of their own genre) films in the past decade that have surpassed Avengers meager effort in every single ???? department.

The animation and special effects were downright cartoonish, I'll say Watchmen and Dredd integrated CGI far better with a much lower budget. It was genuinely ???? embarrassing to watch the last half hour with the Reboot style animation.

Oh, but you say the action was phenomenal as well. I take it you haven't seen 300, The Raid, The Dark Knight or even Skyfall. Avengers, even on a brainless action movie standpoint does not hold a candle to numerous films that have come out in this time frame

We're now left with character development and dialogue, both of which Robert Downey Jr. did the heavy lifting for and guess what, he has his own series that gives him far better screentime

As a movie goer sometimes I enjoy the most primal appeals in the theatre as it relates to sight and sound even if the movie sucks ass. The score for the Avengers is forgettable, and the cinematography at a technical level is amateur at best.

What are you left with then aside from an incredibly average movie even within the constraints of it's own genre?

This isn't about having differing tastes, this is about people who have such TINY scope even within the genre that they don't realize just how downright stupid they sound. I'd say the same to idiots who pretend Inception is the most intelligent movie to come out in recent memory. No, it isn't. You just haven't watched enough movies.

Mass reach =/= quality

90% of the world has probably eaten McDonalds. The 10% are probably dying from starvation. That don't make McDonalds amazing for what it is. Just stop, you are all embarrassing

the brilliance of the Avengers, i think, is that its release was perfectly timed--coincidentally or not, i dunno--with the (widely considered) underwhelming conclusion to the Batman movies. i remember so much of the praising grunts for Avengers being translated into something like "it's a fun comic book movie" type deal, like it was a welcomed change to the much-discussed and emulated "darkness" of the Nolan era. audience taste in genre films is cyclical. now that we're being hammered over the head with traditional and self aware (er, incestuous and referential) versions of the same product (avengers 1, 2; captain america, xmen, guardians), i think it's safe to say that there's a light at the end of the tunnel. avengers 2 won't live up to the first one simply by virtue of audiences already been familiar with the formula, which probably had the impression of being 'new' 2 or 3 years ago, even though it wasn't new at all. it was just the cycle switching over.

[Jägermeister]

It's also funny to watch people proclaim that everyone who says they don't like the movie is a fedora-wearing Dew sipper.

Except nobody said that. The people who think they're smarter and better than the common masses because they don't like a superhero movie are

Yet in response to this reply to me saying it was trash:

I thought it was a well-made movie for what its genre is - an action sci-fi movie - and it delivers.

If you're looking for Oscar-nominated script writing, you'd best look somewhere else.

I'm not really sure why people are bashing the Avengers for what it is. Seems like some people are jealous that it made money, when clearly a lot of time was spent working on it. The graphics are excellent and the storyline was acceptable. It had a little bit of everything in it.

Also, if you don't know what superhero is from what comic book company, it's not necessary for understanding the story or the connections, but it seems like you're not into superhero movies, which is fine.

It just seems like you have a lot of hate on it for nothing. Don't go see this sequel then. Why comment on a thread in which you clearly have no interest in?

You said:

Because they're pseudo-intellectuals who hate this type of movie because it makes them feel like an intelligent, refined individual who is above the lowly, unwashed masses.

Don't get me wrong, if you don't like these types of movies that's perfectly fine. But the types of pseudo-intellectuals who hate on it for not being some deep examination of the human condition are the same ones who think they're refined for wearing fedoras and drinking their Mountain Dew from a wine glass while yammering on about how "Good music is dead, I was born in the wrong generation."

You said we are pseudo-intellectuals for posting that we did not like it.

You then said pseudo-intellectuals wear fedoras and drink Mountain Dew.

So yes. You did say that.

Dang I feel so intellectual right now.

[Armada]

Just a bunch of nerds arguing about a movie for nerds.

[soshified]

Can't say I like where the storyline goes after this.. may be the last Avengers I watch.

It's Ultron dude. The Avenegrs can't go around cracking jokes and beating up Loki anymore

[Red Light Racicot]

I think the problem is that these kinds of films seem to lack what traditionally has always made movies great.

That is a good story, convincing acting, and/or a deep emotional response/connection with the audience for example.

It seems a lot people who enjoyed the first installment would probably actually agree with a lot of what I just said. You are probably not going to get much substance, yet in spite of that its become the ideal movie formula.

Im concerned that the movie industry will favor doing it this way from now on, via spectacle, while the movies with actual substance become relatively scarce.

[FramingDragon]

I think the problem is that these kinds of films seem to lack what traditionally has always made movies great.

That is a good story, convincing acting, and/or a deep emotional response/connection with the audience for example.

It seems a lot people who enjoyed the first installment would probably actually agree with a lot of what I just said. You are probably not going to get much substance, yet in spite of that its become the ideal movie formula.

Im concerned that the movie industry will favor doing it this way from now on, via spectacle, while the movies with actual substance become relatively scarce.

Movie industries will do whatever makes money but I think now moreso than ever, you as a viewer have incredible access to big budget films, independent films, movies the average "monkey" won't watch, etc. right on your laptop without having to rely on box office sales driving the possibility of it showing in theatres or not.

The public taste may get dumber but for us fedora wearing folks, the bay of the pirates is an endless treasure chest. I can say the same for music as well.

[*VaNcOuVeRCaNuCkS*]

All I saw in that trailer was the rack on the chick at 20 secs

[The Bookie]

Im concerned that the movie industry will favor doing it this way from now on, via spectacle, while the movies with actual substance become relatively scarce.

I have nothing against superhero movies, it's mostly how much they cost to make. Studios investing in them so heavily (+ longterm) creates a sort of 1/99% scenario. I predict we'll see less young, emerging directors pushing the envelope over the next decade as a result, less Tarantinos, Linklaters, Jonzes.

Movies aren't the same as music, or most other art. A director can have all the talent in the world, but without financial support and the resulting cast/crew of talent, their output will be weak for the most part. Also the advantages of the internet/cheap equipment age can be just as much of a hindrance, as its harder to sort through the noise (something I try to do on a daily basis).

As a hockey equivalent, it's kind of like trading away your second and third draft picks. Yeah those guys might statistically have less a chance of playing in the NHL, but the more you take them the better the odds that a hidden gem will turn up in your system.

Anyway this is a thread about a specific trailer and I'm glad it's something people are looking forward to. I did try to keep this thread alive because it seemed like a good place to talk about the general state of hollywood:

http://forum.canucks.com/topic/362830-the-movie-dark-times-are-coming-what-was-your-favourite-this-year/

[Dazzle]

Yeah I don't know where the idea of needing to respect why someone might like something you clearly don't like comes from, and you shouldn't have to apologize for it just like I wouldn't ever apologize to someone for thinking less of their taste if they enjoyed Here Comes Honey Boo Boo. It is what it is.

I'm not going to pretend that I don't enjoy some films that are less thought provoking than Tree of Life but when self proclaimed action movie aficionados proclaim Avengers to be way above average even on a technical level, I laugh.

I can name multiple action (no, I don't think superheroes are deserving of their own genre) films in the past decade that have surpassed Avengers meager effort in every single ???? department.

The animation and special effects were downright cartoonish, I'll say Watchmen and Dredd integrated CGI far better with a much lower budget. It was genuinely ???? embarrassing to watch the last half hour with the Reboot style animation.

Oh, but you say the action was phenomenal as well. I take it you haven't seen 300, The Raid, The Dark Knight or even Skyfall. Avengers, even on a brainless action movie standpoint does not hold a candle to numerous films that have come out in this time frame

We're now left with character development and dialogue, both of which Robert Downey Jr. did the heavy lifting for and guess what, he has his own series that gives him far better screentime

As a movie goer sometimes I enjoy the most primal appeals in the theatre as it relates to sight and sound even if the movie sucks ass. The score for the Avengers is forgettable, and the cinematography at a technical level is amateur at best.

What are you left with then aside from an incredibly average movie even within the constraints of it's own genre?

This isn't about having differing tastes, this is about people who have such TINY scope even within the genre that they don't realize just how downright stupid they sound. I'd say the same to idiots who pretend Inception is the most intelligent movie to come out in recent memory. No, it isn't. You just haven't watched enough movies.

Mass reach =/= quality

90% of the world has probably eaten McDonalds. The 10% are probably dying from starvation. That don't make McDonalds amazing for what it is. Just stop, you are all embarrassing

The problem with you is that you're ramming your opinions into other people's throats, the same way that Glassjaw is making this whole discussion about him and the cool story about how he was elbow-nudging a friend during the film.

As I said, having a different opinion isn't the issue. It's that you're going around talking down on people for liking something that YOU don't like. Who the hell are YOU? Yeah, I really understand you don't understand the concept of respect. You don't need to tell me that.

You can name multiple action movies...okay, but you didn't list any of them in your paragraph. I'm not sure what your point is in putting that sentence. It's just fluff. I'm up for a good debate and It's good to have some perspective as to what you think is better. That way, we can compare/contrast and see if you've got a point or not. You're afraid to be cast judgement on what you watch - that's why you didn't list it. Pansy.

Reboot style animation? What? I grew up watching Reboot, so I know the show very well. It was NOTHING like that. The comparison that you're drawing is hugely exaggerated. Granted, some scenes in the movie weren't that smooth (i.e. When Black Widow was riding that air mobile thingy; it really looked artificial)

I've seen all those movies that you've listed and more, but you know what? They're all good. I liked them all. I loved Skyfall in theatres - saw it twice. But that doesn't mean that they are inferior movies compared to Avengers. No, I merely said that Avengers is one of the best action movies in recent memory. Keywords: One of. I didn't say it was the best movie in recent memory.

Furthermore, most of the ones you've listed are very different movies. Skyfall isn't really a 'sci-fi' movie, for instance; if you remember the movie, all the technology was pretty underwhelming compared to previous Bond movies. Therefore, the "graphics" and CGI usage is going to be a lot different. 300 is not SCI-FI, etc etc. Dark Knight is the only real comparison. However, Dark Knight had tons of props, which greatly reduces the use of CGI. There's no aliens in DK, but there were in Avengers.

It's nice and fun that you're talking about cinematography as 'amateur at best' when there's no real perspective in your statements. Are you an expert at it? Can you educate us on what is 'amateur' and what is professionally done? It's a blanket statement to me and means nothing. I could say that I'm a great driver, which I am, but you'd have to take my words for what it is; there's no context to compare it to. Compared to an F1 driver, I drive like crap.

Sorry, your arguments are very flimsy and they only seem to be written with the intent of making you seem smarter than you really are. But you're not.

[FramingDragon]

The problem with you is that you're ramming your opinions into other people's throats, the same way that Glassjaw is making this whole discussion about him and the cool story about how he was elbow-nudging a friend during the film.

As I said, having a different opinion isn't the issue. It's that you're going around talking down on people for liking something that YOU don't like. Who the hell are YOU? Yeah, I really understand you don't understand the concept of respect. You don't need to tell me that.

You can name multiple action movies...okay, but you didn't list any of them in your paragraph. I'm not sure what your point is in putting that sentence. It's just fluff. I'm up for a good debate and It's good to have some perspective as to what you think is better. That way, we can compare/contrast and see if you've got a point or not. You're afraid to be cast judgement on what you watch - that's why you didn't list it. Pansy.

Reboot style animation? What? I grew up watching Reboot, so I know the show very well. It was NOTHING like that. The comparison that you're drawing is hugely exaggerated. Granted, some scenes in the movie weren't that smooth (i.e. When Black Widow was riding that air mobile thingy; it really looked artificial)

I've seen all those movies that you've listed and more, but you know what? They're all good. I liked them all. I loved Skyfall in theatres - saw it twice. But that doesn't mean that they are inferior movies compared to Avengers. No, I merely said that Avengers is one of the best action movies in recent memory. Keywords: One of. I didn't say it was the best movie in recent memory.

Furthermore, most of the ones you've listed are very different movies. Skyfall isn't really a 'sci-fi' movie, for instance; if you remember the movie, all the technology was pretty underwhelming compared to previous Bond movies. Therefore, the "graphics" and CGI usage is going to be a lot different. 300 is not SCI-FI, etc etc. Dark Knight is the only real comparison. However, Dark Knight had tons of props, which greatly reduces the use of CGI. There's no aliens in DK, but there were in Avengers.

It's nice and fun that you're talking about cinematography as 'amateur at best' when there's no real perspective in your statements. Are you an expert at it? Can you educate us on what is 'amateur' and what is professionally done? It's a blanket statement to me and means nothing. I could say that I'm a great driver, which I am, but you'd have to take my words for what it is; there's no context to compare it to. Compared to an F1 driver, I drive like crap.

Sorry, your arguments are very flimsy and they only seem to be written with the intent of making you seem smarter than you really are. But you're not.

Oh jesus look at this crap smear

I am just someone who thinks lowly of people who can't articulate and defend their own preferences. And if you haven't clued in already, I pretty much agree with glassjaw. This is not a thread on quantum mechanics, it's about films and everything is about opinions. You think ticket sales and critic reviews count as "facts" to back you up? I can teach you statistics too but let's not go there with the inflation adjustment, 3D tickets boosting up revenue, etc.

I haven't listed enough movies? Did you even read the part where I mentioned I don't consider superheros to be a genre on their own and I will judge them with other action movies?

Would you like me to take out screen caps from the movie and explain to you scene by scene how laughable the cinematography has been? I totally can but I don't think it'll penetrate anything. Granted I don't consider myself an expert, and I have taken VFS courses on scholarship for cinematography and storywriting. I edited for a while as a hobby. What credentials do you offer aside from a bruised fanboy ego?

[GLASSJAW]

The problem with you is that you're ramming your opinions into other people's throats, the same way that Glassjaw is making this whole discussion about him and the cool story about how he was elbow-nudging a friend during the film.

huh?