Live Long Enough to Become the Villain (Bieksa)

[oldnews]

I am not sure why you can't see that I actually agree with you lol.

I just said Benning seems very committed to Miller. First by signing him to a pretty dumb contract (in hindsight I guess) when he had a guy who could handle the main job with proper support and a veteran backup capable of taking over for stretches as necessary.

The vet entitlement issue I this team is very real and in a way Desjardins seems to continue to foster that. I would prefer to see all players have to earn what they get. And not just on a season by season said but in the thick of things as well. Miller seems to feel entitled. I agree. But I think that is also being fostered in him to some degree as well.

Yes we do often agree ws, but where I get snarly with your posts, it's the highlighted part that is at the crux of it.

What you have is a distant perception of the reality - which you use to form an opinion or an impression. That is all your own perception is - an impression, opinion, limited interpretation - which reality is certainly not reducible to.

[wallstreetamigo]

Yes we do often agree ws, but where I get snarly with your posts, it's the highlighted part that is at the crux of it.

What you have is a distant perception of the reality - which you use to form an opinion or an impression. That is all your own perception is - an impression, opinion, limited interpretation - which reality is certainly not reducible to.

You yourself say that Miller has a sense of entitlement. I happen to think there are others on this team who also do. That is going by their comments more than anything. As an example saying young players are not the answer sort of reeks of protectionism of your own job.

[oldnews]

You yourself say that Miller has a sense of entitlement. I happen to think there are others on this team who also do. That is going by their comments more than anything. As an example saying young players are not the answer sort of reeks of protectionism of your own job.

what player said that?

My impression is that Miller expects to be the starter.

What I don't say is that veteran players coast once they make the playoffs, are entitled to not really care and just do enough to retain their spots, etc - something else entirely.

[wallstreetamigo]

what player said that?

My impression is that Miller expects to be the starter.

What I don't say is that veteran players coast once they make the playoffs, are entitled to not really care and just do enough to retain their spots, etc - something else entirely.

Sooner or later though the results and effort level issues stop becoming an anomaly and questions must be raised. The only pieces on this team that are constant since that trend started are the vet core players. Everyone else has been changed out sometimes multiple times.

Aside from the Sedins and Burrows I was not thrilled with the rest of the core vets in terms of being able to do what they say every year they will - which is play better, more consistently, and with more urgency.

You should watch the year end pressers with the players. It is pretty interesting to hear some of the comments they made.

I know for me the fact they say the core is still able to get the job done and that they just need to play better is getting to the point of zero credibility. Either actually do it or shut up about how you can. Because it is an insult to put up that half assed effort and obvious looking past a supposed weaker team in the playoffs only to get smoked.

Another classic was Desjardins suggesting that he was conserving players for future rounds. He doesn't say it outright of course but there was not much else to take from his comments on that. And that is why they lose to weaker teams. They expect an easy win.

[oldnews]

Sooner or later though the results and effort level issues stop becoming an anomaly and questions must be raised. The only pieces on this team that are constant since that trend started are the vet core players. Everyone else has been changed out sometimes multiple times.

Aside from the Sedins and Burrows I was not thrilled with the rest of the core vets in terms of being able to do what they say every year they will - which is play better, more consistently, and with more urgency.

You should watch the year end pressers with the players. It is pretty interesting to hear some of the comments they made.

I know for me the fact they say the core is still able to get the job done and that they just need to play better is getting to the point of zero credibility. Either actually do it or shut up about how you can. Because it is an insult to put up that half assed effort and obvious looking past a supposed weaker team in the playoffs only to get smoked.

which player said that younger players are not the answer? who were you referring to with the "protectionism" of his own job comment?

[wallstreetamigo]

which player said that younger players are not the answer? who were you referring to with the "protectionism" of his own job comment?

That is a quote from Bieksa

[oldnews]

That is a quote from Bieksa

ok I'll give it a listen - I just started and got as far as Daniel saying there are a lot of good young players coming along...

Henrik saying the same thing - and pretty excited about it.

[wallstreetamigo]

ok I'll give it a listen - I just started and got as far as Daniel saying there are a lot of good young players coming along...

Henrik saying the same thing - and pretty excited about it.

That is where you will see a disconnect. Henrik and Daniel also waver on that issue a bit in terms of replacing the core.

Then Bieksa goes completely against what pretty much everyone else says about young players being a key.

People think I am making something out of nothing but it was a very odd disconnect to me.

[Erik Karlsson]

That is where you will see a disconnect. Henrik and Daniel also waver on that issue a bit in terms of replacing the core.

Then Bieksa goes completely against what pretty much everyone else says about young players being a key.

People think I am making something out of nothing but it was a very odd disconnect to me.

ok I'll give it a listen - I just started and got as far as Daniel saying there are a lot of good young players coming along...

Henrik saying the same thing - and pretty excited about it.

I think the twins want young guys coming in and are excited. You need young guys now to win a cup and they will never get replaced by any rookies so they don't have to worry about that.

Bieksa on the other hand obviously know's he didn't have a great season and could easily be replaced by a younger cheaper player at this stage of his career.

[TheOgRook]

Then with all due respect you are wrong. Tanev is not a saviour and he would certainly not save Bieksa from himself. Edler played a much more defensively responsible game himself this season and it showed in the results.

You don't understand just how effective pairings work if you think it is all Tanev.

I love how you run around like you are the only one that is right, constant complaining claiming your opinion is gospel. It's posters like this that make it hard to read this forum. You tell people not to make personal attacks and you run around doing it yourself... Your schtick is getting old.

[DhillonCanuck]

That is where you will see a disconnect. Henrik and Daniel also waver on that issue a bit in terms of replacing the core.

Then Bieksa goes completely against what pretty much everyone else says about young players being a key.

People think I am making something out of nothing but it was a very odd disconnect to me.

Dude do you live on this forum more than 75% of the responses in this thread are yours

[oldnews]

That is a quote from Bieksa

Just listened and didn't hear anything resembling what you attributed to him

You yourself say that Miller has a sense of entitlement. I happen to think there are others on this team who also do. That is going by their comments more than anything. As an example saying young players are not the answer sort of reeks of protectionism of your own job.

vs what Bieksa actually said in response to the question about the core and getting younger....

"We got younger this year with we had some guys like Bo step in with big roles, I'm sure next year there will be a couple other guys stepping up too. You know, I still believe in this core."

He later goes on to say you need the best players - if they're veterans they're veterans, if they're young guys that make you faster, etc they're young guys - he doesn't have the formula.

It sounds to me like your own slant gets in the way of your perception.

[Barry_Wilkins]

I love Juice - but not sure how to pinpoint it - Juice's skating seems to be letting him down - he looks too upright, without a broad enough stride and base - top heavy / not low enough to the ice - and the result seems to me to be a lack of lateral quickness, slow to pivot, and dzone coverage that suffers as a result.

In addition, he had a dose of Jason Garrison in him this year, where he couldn't hit the net for the life of him - his shot was completely ineffective.

To top it off, he's never played well with Edler, and I think the same could be said of Sbisa - I think the sum of that pairing is significantly lesser than the parts. Bieksa is not a stabilizing presence for either of them - however, he and Stanton on the other hand had some excellent chemistry, particularly last year before the injuries hit.

Anyhow, I'm not sure what JB's (and KB's) answer will be - that's a tough decision for sure.

This is a very good assessment, oldnews.

What I've noticed this past season is Bieksa routinely getting beaten on the counter-attack, which is exacerbated by his frequent forays into the OZone. He always had poor acceleration, but once he took a few strides, his skating was at least average. Now, it seems, he can't keep up at all.

If I were coach (I know, I know) I'd demand he not go past the opposing team's blue line unless it was a clear opportunity for an outnumbered rush.

[wallstreetamigo]

Just listened and didn't hear anything resembling what you attributed to him

vs what Bieksa actually said in response to the question about the core and getting younger....

"We got younger this year with we had some guys like Bo step in with big roles, I'm sure next year there will be a couple other guys stepping up too. You know, I still believe in this core."

It sounds to me like your own slant gets in the way of your perception.

Keep listening. Young players are not the answer is a direct quote as far as I remember.

[wallstreetamigo]

Dude do you live on this forum more than 75% of the responses in this thread are yours

I am definitely here a lot. I like the discussions on this forum for the most part. Lots of interesting and insightful discussion.

[oldnews]

Keep listening. Young players are not the answer is a direct quote as far as I remember.

I did listen to the rest of it - what you've done is misrepresented him and taken what he said out of context. Again, I think you're trying too hard to make a point that is your own - is not necessarily there. That what you take away from that conversation is Bieksa being 'protectionist' imo is far more a reflection of your own ideological shading / slant on the guy than what Bieksa himself said.

"I don't think youth is always the answer. I don't think making the team younger is [necessarily] going to put us over the hump. I think you still need the best players regardless of how old they are. If they feel that young guys going to help us be a quicker team then yeah, if they feel like more experienced guys are going to make us a smarter team....I don't know. I don't have the answers....or what the recipe is for a Stanley Cup Champion.....every year is different... "

I don't think I need to keep listening. I think you need to start listening.

[wallstreetamigo]

I did listen to the rest of it - what you've done is misrepresented him and taken what he said out of context. Again, I think you're trying too hard to make a point that is your own - is not necessarily there. That what you take away from that conversation is Bieksa being 'protectionist' imo is far more a reflection of your own ideological shading / slant on the guy than what Bieksa himself said.

"I don't think youth is always the answer. I don't think making the team younger is [necessarily] going to put us over the hump. I think you still need the best players regardless of how old they are. If they feel that young guys going to help us be a quicker team then yeah, if they feel like more experienced guys are going to make us a smarter team....I don't know. I don't have the answers....or what the recipe is for a Stanley Cup Champion.....every year is different... "

Unfortunately for Bieksa the same group of core vets have now claimed they were the best players for the job only to choke yet again year after year. Guys like Bieksa are simply not the best players for the job anymore. Claiming the core is fine and youth is not the answer is a pretty clear statement that he feels status quo is the way to go.

Considering several of those young players actually played better than he did let's hope management does they again buy his snake oil.

[wallstreetamigo]

I did listen to the rest of it - what you've done is misrepresented him and taken what he said out of context. Again, I think you're trying too hard to make a point that is your own - is not necessarily there. That what you take away from that conversation is Bieksa being 'protectionist' imo is far more a reflection of your own ideological shading / slant on the guy than what Bieksa himself said.

"I don't think youth is always the answer. I don't think making the team younger is [necessarily] going to put us over the hump. I think you still need the best players regardless of how old they are. If they feel that young guys going to help us be a quicker team then yeah, if they feel like more experienced guys are going to make us a smarter team....I don't know. I don't have the answers....or what the recipe is for a Stanley Cup Champion.....every year is different... "

I don't think I need to keep listening. I think you need to start listening.

Read the first couple of lines. A direct quote. You can interpret it how you want to it he said it. Contrary to what the Sedins and management said. They all clearly said younger is a key. So they disagree with Bieksa.

If the older ayers actually made us a smarter team he might have a point. Wasn't he the one who ran around acting like Ferland was in his head? Or will you ignore that too? Someone who does so many dumb things on the ice should probably not play the smarter player card. If he had one tenth of the poise Horvat shows as a young player we would be much better off.

Older doesn't equal better or smarter. Just like experience losing terribly for several years doesn't automatically make you know how to avoid it. As we have seen again and again.

[aGENT]

Read the first couple of lines. A direct quote. You can interpret it how you want to it he said it. Contrary to what the Sedins and management said. They all clearly said younger is a key. So they disagree with Bieksa.

If the older ayers actually made us a smarter team he might have a point. Wasn't he the one who ran around acting like Ferland was in his head? Or will you ignore that too? Someone who does so many dumb things on the ice should probably not play the smarter player card. If he had one tenth of the poise Horvat shows as a young player we would be much better off.

Older doesn't equal better or smarter. Just like experience losing terribly for several years doesn't automatically make you know how to avoid it. As we have seen again and again.

No, they all (in their own way) said putting the best players on the ice is key. If that includes younger players, great. But getting younger for the sake of getting younger =/= getting better.

[oldnews]

Unfortunately for Bieksa the same group of core vets have now claimed they were the best players for the job only to choke yet again year after year. Guys like Bieksa are simply not the best players for the job anymore. Claiming the core is fine and youth is not the answer is a pretty clear statement that he feels status quo is the way to go.

Considering several of those young players actually played better than he did let's hope management does they again buy his snake oil.

Read the first couple of lines. A direct quote. You can interpret it how you want to it he said it. Contrary to what the Sedins and management said. They all clearly said younger is a key. So they disagree with Bieksa.

If the older ayers actually made us a smarter team he might have a point. Wasn't he the one who ran around acting like Ferland was in his head? Or will you ignore that too? Someone who does so many dumb things on the ice should probably not play the smarter player card. If he had one tenth of the poise Horvat shows as a young player we would be much better off.

Older doesn't equal better or smarter. Just like experience losing terribly for several years doesn't automatically make you know how to avoid it. As we have seen again and again.

Bieksa doesn't have the answers, but wallstreet has the answers regarding Bieksa's answers.

m.k.

Your endless appetite for wrestling all power of definition into your own [reductive] terms would suggest a promising career in politics.

wallstreet may not be your calling.

But I'm not sure you're outsmarting anyone aside from yourself. You can work all you want to revise/reduce what he said - it's not as simple as your slant. Not many people could take the sum of Bieksa's comments and come up with your take, but power to you ws.