aGENT Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 21 minutes ago, N4ZZY said: i was wondering why you had to post it FOUR TIMES! hehe But I agree with you. I think Benning's trying to undo what Gillis did (which was draft poorly...) That's not entirely accurate. A prospect black hole is part of the price to be paid for 2 president's cups and a SCF appearance. We sold off a lot to get those (as most teams in that position do) and we also drafted late because we were good. It's not a recipe for a strong prospect pool. Gillis certainly had some misses drafting as well but he also got us guys like Horvat, Gaunce etc... overall he was 'ok' (not great, not horrible) and got much better at drafting the longer he was around (and it was becoming clear we would need to re-tool). What we also failed to do well was develop players in that period. But again Gillis was the guy that got us the Comets which started to rectify that. The 11 cup run and the Utica Comets will be viewed as his positive legacy here given time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 18 hours ago, Alflives said: Why can't JB sign the guys we want? This is just another HUGE reason why JB needs to stay as a scout, and hire a proper GM. Probably because it's his team, not yours. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 12 minutes ago, J.R. said: That's not entirely accurate. A prospect black hole is part of the price to be paid for 2 president's cups and a SCF appearance. We sold off a lot to get those (as most teams in that position do) and we also drafted late because we were good. It's not a recipe for a strong prospect pool. Gillis certainly had some misses drafting as well but he also got us guys like Horvat, Gaunce etc... overall he was 'ok' (not great, not horrible) and got much better at drafting the longer he was around (and it was becoming clear we would need to re-tool). What we also failed to do well was develop players in that period. But again Gillis was the guy that got us the Comets which started to rectify that. The 11 cup run and the Utica Comets will be viewed as his positive legacy here given time. A lot of teams win and manage to keep themselves from falling off the cliff. The root of our problems today is the horrific drafting by Gillis. Good teams can throw picks for the right pieces and still manage to draft players in the later rounds to keep what is happening to us today, at bay. Teams like Detroit and Chicago almost arrogantly throw high picks because they know how to draft so well. In hindsight, Burke/ Nonis built this core and Gillis killed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 (edited) 4 minutes ago, LaBamba said: A lot of teams win and manage to keep themselves from falling off the cliff. The root of our problems today is the horrific drafting by Gillis. Good teams can throw picks for the right pieces and still manage to draft players in the later rounds to keep what is happening to us today, at bay. Teams like Detroit and Chicago almost arrogantly throw high picks because they know how to draft so well. In hindsight, Burke/ Nonis built this core and Gillis killed it. Different paths. Gillis took a mediocre team and sold futures to prop it up. Chicago tanked and drafted a a lot of very good players high (and got lucky). You can't really compare the two as they're quite different. Edited March 8, 2016 by J.R. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, J.R. said: Different paths. Gillis took a mediocre team and sold futures to prop it up. Chicago tanked and drafted a a lot of very good players high (and got lucky). You can't really compare the two as they're quite different. Ya. The Hawks have three Cups with their core, and we have ZERO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 1 minute ago, J.R. said: Different paths. Gillis took a mediocre team and sold to prop it up. Chicago tanked and drafted a a lot of very good players high (and got lucky). You can't really compare the two as they're quite different. It still doesn't excuse the horrific drafting, it's not like Gillis gave all of his picks away in trades for core pieces. His regime took a crap on the draft floor year after year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, LaBamba said: It still doesn't excuse the horrific drafting, it's not like Gillis gave all of his picks away in trades for core pieces. His regime took a crap on the draft floor year after year. You believe what you want to believe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, LaBamba said: It still doesn't excuse the horrific drafting, it's not like Gillis gave all of his picks away in trades for core pieces. His regime took a crap on the draft floor year after year. Maybe we should have GMMG for the day to day GM stuff, while Benning runs the draft and scouting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LaBamba Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 2 minutes ago, J.R. said: You believe what you want to believe. Man, the guy was GM for 6 years and did not draft 1 top 6 forward or 1 top 4 Dman. You can't even be that bad on purpose. Now we are stuck with his stupid contracts and nothing to replace them with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numb3r 16 Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 8 minutes ago, Alflives said: Maybe we should have GMMG for the day to day GM stuff, while Benning runs the draft and scouting? ever heard "its easier said than done" before? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 8, 2016 Share Posted March 8, 2016 4 minutes ago, numb3r 16 said: ever heard "its easier said than done" before? Ever heard, "OUR TEAM CURRENTLY SUCKS AND WILL FOR A LONG TIME, BECAUSE PAST AND PRESENT MANAGEMENT DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING"? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WonderTwinPowers Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 (edited) 2 hours ago, N4ZZY said: My phone went bat crap crazy that's why it posted so many times haha. And I also agree that it wasn't necessarily solely poor drafting but also trading futures for a cup contending team. Which no one complained about at the time. Edited March 9, 2016 by WonderTwinPowers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post numb3r 16 Posted March 9, 2016 Popular Post Share Posted March 9, 2016 4 minutes ago, Alflives said: Ever heard, "OUR TEAM CURRENTLY SUCKS AND WILL FOR A LONG TIME, BECAUSE PAST AND PRESENT MANAGEMENT DON'T KNOW WHAT THEY ARE DOING"? Holy crap the stupidity in this forum... Read this smart@$$ @Dr. Crossbar Quote You can't keep calling for change year after year and then not allow the process of change to happen. During the last couple years of AV's time here, we demanded change and he was eventually fired. When we got change by hiring a new coach, fans wanted more change, so Torts was fired. We got that change and then wanted more change, so Gillis was fired. A new president and GM were hired who said change was coming, and it did. That's not to say it wasn't going to be painful to build this team back into a contender. 2 years later, we're in the middle of change and an apparent plan for the future, and now fans want change again by calling for Benning's head. It's ridiculous to keep calling for change without stepping back and allowing a new plan to be put into place. The changes people have been demanding since 2012 take more than 2 years and require fans to have a level of patience. The younger we get, the more patience is required. Kudos to the posters in this thread who have shown the difference in the lineup age wise and what Benning has managed to do in just two seasons. When Gillis and Torts were going on about the need to get younger, did they make the bold moves to inject youth into the lineup? Nope. It was all talk. And I was freakin miffed when I learned Torts didn't even spend any time at the prospects game while he was talking about the importance of youth. The changes that have taken place to date have been huge as compared to the "hanging on to 2011 team way too long" years. Benning's been here for two seasons and IMO still hasn't been able to turn over the roster completely because of the leftover Gillis era NTCs. That's not to say Benning's perfect. He's bound to make mistakes. I see a guy who inherited a mess who had to make a number of unpopular and unconventional moves to untangle it all that angered a of fans. In many ways, it's been clean house where we can and take what we can get otherwise we're stuck without roster spots. And you can certainly make the case that Benning should have gotten better value in certain moves. IMO, Benning and Linden hung themselves this season with their message of retooling on the fly, ushering in youth, transition vets out of the lineup, remaining competitive, making the playoffs as their priorities, and then reversed their message when things didn't happen at the TDL. It was a recipe for too many expectations to collide. Benning's been doing things differently and I'm completely willing to give the process of change enough time to take hold. We've been doing things the same for the past 40+ years and haven't won the Cup. Who knows ... this period of painful change may finally be what we need. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 5 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Man, the guy was GM for 6 years and did not draft 1 top 6 forward or 1 top 4 Dman. You can't even be that bad on purpose. Now we are stuck with his stupid contracts and nothing to replace them with. I'll concentrate on 1st rounders as anything beyond the mid 1st is largely a crap shoot. Hodgson just about anyone would have picked at the time (2008). Same with Schroeder (2009) who also happens to be a late 1st (AKA hit or miss). He largely was a victim of poor development IMO (no Utica). Though his size didn't help either. 2010 we didn't have a pick until the 4th (and still managed to find Friesen). 2011 we picked Jensen (29th, again late) 2012 Gaunce 2013 Horvat (top 6 player FWIW) and Shinkaruk Otherwise, he also managed to find Connauton, Rodin, Corrado, Grenier, Hutton (top 4 D, no?) Cederholm, Subban and Cassels. A lot of those guys the jury's still out on but there IS some talent there. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 3 minutes ago, numb3r 16 said: Holy crap the stupidity in this forum... Read this smart@$$ @Dr. Crossbar Too much to read. do you have a the abridged version for us smart@$$ types? It's called an opposing opinion for a reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numb3r 16 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, Alflives said: Too much to read. do you have a the abridged version for us smart@$$ types? It's called an opposing opinion for a reason. oh, i thought you could handle it...my bad i guess we're stuck with ur smart@$$ self forever Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 2 minutes ago, numb3r 16 said: oh, i thought you could handle it...my bad i guess we're stuck with ur smart@$$ self forever I love CDC. I love BB too. He needs to be hear, now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 23 minutes ago, LaBamba said: Man, the guy was GM for 6 years and did not draft 1 top 6 forward or 1 top 4 Dman. You can't even be that bad on purpose. Horvat? Hutton? In some fairness, hard to do well at drafting when trading away a lot of picks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
numb3r 16 Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 Just now, Alflives said: I love CDC. I love BB too. He needs to be hear, now! i don't know what you mean by that, hear what? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 9, 2016 Share Posted March 9, 2016 1 minute ago, numb3r 16 said: i don't know what you mean by that, hear what? Good one! You win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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