Z Hockey Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 10 minutes ago, JV77 said: After reading your posts I really can't decide if you're just messing or just really, really...(don't wana insult you) Go ahead and say it pal, I'm not trolling or some crap like that, I never do that. It's my detail oriented opinion and I've given plenty of reasonable info and opinion and Gstank agrees with me on the Hawks asset control. I've got more hockey knowledge than you and I play competitively and train 24/7, so I know about on the ice and the work that goes in off the ice. I'm saying that so you know Im not a typical armchair GM fan spewing random uneducated info. You can think the Hawks asset control lately has been dandy and that they will be able to handle LA, Dallas, Anaheim, etc. Cause their asset control has been all over the place and Bowman isn't smart with value half the time and Chicago won't be able to handle teams like the ones I listed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 59 minutes ago, Gstank29 said: If you breakdown the Laich trade it's basically Connor Carrick for Laich. So if we work from that 4.5 million, same term is less than 5.9 million Sharp is on pace for about 55-60 points where Laich is probably about 20-25 points Carrick is about the same as Johns. So someone of Sharps statue and productions should have required a lesser prospect (probably a pick) because they only real thing your eating is his cap he is still a productive player, opposed to in the Leafs/Captial trade you are eating cap and getting a useless player Yup Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kane Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 minute ago, Z Hockey said: Go ahead and say it pal, I'm not trolling or some crap like that, I never do that. It's my detail oriented opinion and I've given plenty of reasonable info and opinion and Gstank agrees with me on the Hawks asset control. I've got more hockey knowledge than you and I play competitively and train 24/7, so I know about on the ice and the work that goes in off the ice. I'm saying that so you know Im not a typical armchair GM fan spewing random uneducated info. You can think the Hawks asset control lately has been dandy and that they will be able to handle LA, Dallas, Anaheim, etc. Cause their asset control has been all over the place and Bowman isn't smart with value half the time and Chicago won't be able to handle teams like the ones I listed. People thought that last year too....the consensus was that Chicago could not beat the big teams like Anaheim, Nashville, or St Louis. The teams change every year but the underestimation is always there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted March 18, 2016 Author Share Posted March 18, 2016 1 hour ago, butters said: If people are going to call dumping capsapce "bad asset management" then they must also call free agent signings "awesome asset management" since the GM has created an asset out of nothing. There's a big difference between dumping cap space and getting some value or anything in return... and dumping an Olympic scoring winger and a good D prospect and then two top nine wingers and a depth D man.. And basically dumping that "some value" or that "anything" and ending up with just a depth D man who will walk as a UFA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JV77 Posted March 18, 2016 Share Posted March 18, 2016 9 minutes ago, Z Hockey said: Go ahead and say it pal, I'm not trolling or some crap like that, I never do that. It's my detail oriented opinion and I've given plenty of reasonable info and opinion and Gstank agrees with me on the Hawks asset control. I've got more hockey knowledge than you and I play competitively and train 24/7, so I know about on the ice and the work that goes in off the ice. I'm saying that so you know Im not a typical armchair GM fan spewing random uneducated info. You can think the Hawks asset control lately has been dandy and that they will be able to handle LA, Dallas, Anaheim, etc. Cause their asset control has been all over the place and Bowman isn't smart with value half the time and Chicago won't be able to handle teams like the ones I listed. Exhibit A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 7 minutes ago, Darth Kane said: People thought that last year too....the consensus was that Chicago could not beat the big teams like Anaheim, Nashville, or St Louis. The teams change every year but the underestimation is always there. Yeah well this year those teams and more teams got (even stronger), while the Hawks basically stayed the same or maybe got a little worse in terms of depth. Even a team like Florida that isn't even one of the teams thats a huge powerhouse contender like LA or the Caps, even a team like them has depth that could match up to Chicago.. Look at the Panthers wing depth compared to the Hawks.. Panthers Blackhawks LW RW LW RW Huberdeau Jagr Panarin P. Kane Hudler Re. Smith Ladd Hossa J. Jokinen Purcell Fleischmann A. Shaw S. Thornton L. Shaw Mashinter Weise Howden/G.Wilson Rasmussen/Panik Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaintPatrick33 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 3 hours ago, Z Hockey said: Doughty, Muzzin, Gaborik, Kopitar, Toffoli, Carter say hi. So does Niskanen, Carlson, Ovechkin, Backstrom, Oshie Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa all are first ballot HOFers LA- Doughty is HOF, Maybe Kopi and Carter Wash- Ovi def Hof, maybe Backstrom Nobody comes close to the Chicago 5, LA has a good core but still play a 4 line game. Hawks roll in the playoffs by playing Keith and Seabrook half the game. They won 2 games in the playoffs with Scott Darling in net for crying out loud LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Chalky said: Every GM makes bad moves. Bowman makes tough decisions and ices winning teams. There is no cookie cutter to NHL teams and if those are the teams the Hawks are grouped in with then they are a good team. I don't define GMs only by their failed moves. In Bowman's case, he keeps a strong core and replaces parts around them as needed. He often uses role players. I don't think he has bad asset management. By the way, I hate the Hawks. I'm gonna sound like a broken record here, yes Bowman the past few years has made brilliant moves and they've won cups. But AS OF LATE the asset management and trading is getting a little out of hand, they've lost alof of veteran value and prospects and many other teams are now just as strong or stronger. AS OF LATE/RECENTLY they've started to make poor decisions and I think they are being a bit careless and not realizing that LA has won 2 cups in the past four years too and is insanely deep (probably deeper than the Hawks), Dallas is loaded and has cup winners from the Hawks, Anaheim like LA has crazy depth, San Jose is stacked up, even Florida looks kinda scary, and the Rangers now have a top nine as good as anyone. The Pens when fully healthy will be no joke especially with that D depth, and the Capitals have Ovechkin playing Elite and finally a very talented winger for him and Backstrom (Oshie), and two cup winners (J.Williams and M. Richards), and multiple high flying young talents contributing, a solid D, and a top three in the NHL goaltender. So as of late I'm saying the Hawks are making bad moves and more importantly teams around them are getting stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kane Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 18 minutes ago, Z Hockey said: Yeah well this year those teams and more teams got (even stronger), while the Hawks basically stayed the same or maybe got a little worse in terms of depth. Even a team like Florida that isn't even one of the teams thats a huge powerhouse contender like LA or the Caps, even a team like them has depth that could match up to Chicago.. Look at the Panthers wing depth compared to the Hawks.. Panthers Blackhawks LW RW LW RW Huberdeau Jagr Panarin P. Kane Hudler Re. Smith Ladd Hossa J. Jokinen Purcell Fleischmann A. Shaw S. Thornton L. Shaw Mashinter Weise Howden/G.Wilson Rasmussen/Panik Florida has some good wingers, but they aren't on par with Chicago. Once Kruger comes back and the playoffs start our lines will be: Ladd - Toews - Hossa Panarin - Anisimov - Kane Fleischmann - Teravainen - Weise Desjardins - Kruger - Shaw Rasmussen, Panik I am more than comfortable having this group battle for the Cup. There's no guarantee that they'll win of course, but they'll have a good shot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chalky Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 26 minutes ago, Z Hockey said: I'm gonna sound like a broken record here, yes Bowman the past few years has made brilliant moves and they've won cups. But AS OF LATE the asset management and trading is getting a little out of hand, they've lost alof of veteran value and prospects and many other teams are now just as strong or stronger. AS OF LATE/RECENTLY they've started to make poor decisions and I think they are being a bit careless and not realizing that LA has won 2 cups in the past four years too and is insanely deep (probably deeper than the Hawks), Dallas is loaded and has cup winners from the Hawks, Anaheim like LA has crazy depth, San Jose is stacked up, even Florida looks kinda scary, and the Rangers now have a top nine as good as anyone. The Pens when fully healthy will be no joke especially with that D depth, and the Capitals have Ovechkin playing Elite and finally a very talented winger for him and Backstrom (Oshie), and two cup winners (J.Williams and M. Richards), and multiple high flying young talents contributing, a solid D, and a top three in the NHL goaltender. So as of late I'm saying the Hawks are making bad moves and more importantly teams around them are getting stronger. Put that way, I agree. Bowman is a good GM, but he still does need to follow the basic premise of forward thinking and planning. You are right that more than a couple other teams are on the cusp. I think Bowman manages like Wally Buono. He is not afraid to dump an asset that still has value to keep a small core intact. He then fills his ranks with new faces and finds the pieces that fit. It can be a gamble for sure, but he's shown it works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CBH1926 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Z Hockey said: Yeah so bizarre I'm pointing out that they turned 6 legit NHLers and many prospects into basically a depth D man. I'm saying they won't be winning now, they're not good enough compared to other teams. Let's wait until the playoffs start and we can talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 2 hours ago, SaintPatrick33 said: Toews, Kane, Keith, Seabrook, Hossa all are first ballot HOFers LA- Doughty is HOF, Maybe Kopi and Carter Wash- Ovi def Hof, maybe Backstrom Nobody comes close to the Chicago 5, LA has a good core but still play a 4 line game. Hawks roll in the playoffs by playing Keith and Seabrook half the game. They won 2 games in the playoffs with Scott Darling in net for crying out loud LOL Who cares wether some of the top six players in LA or Washington are good but not HOFers like a lot of the Hawks top six are. Who cares, they're just as good with their entire top six/nine spread out and healthy and for example... Backstrom has scored 100 points multiple times, Toews has never hit 80, Toews may be the HOFer, but Backstrom can compete with Toews any day of the week, especially offensively. LA and CHI top six comparison WSH and CHI top six comparison Kopitar = Toews Backstrom = Toews (Backstrom wins in the offense dept.) J. Carter > Anisimov Kuznetsov >> Anisimov Lucic = Ladd Ovechkin >>>> Ladd Gaborik/Pearson = Panarin/Fleischmann Burakovsky/Johansson = Panarin/Fleischmann Toffoli & Brown/Versteeg < P. Kane & Hossa/Shaw Oshie & Williams = P. Kane & Hossa (Slight edge to Chicago here offensively) All pretty close, this isn't even factoring in D and goaltending Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 'asset management' is a term that needs to go away in a hurry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 57 minutes ago, CBH1926 said: Let's wait until the playoffs start and we can talk. Deal, but it's pretty obvious to me anyway that the Hawks are being risky with veteran assets and prospects. Playoffs haven't even started and I don't think Chicago will be winning anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 2 hours ago, JV77 said: Exhibit A Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Shift-4 said: 'asset management' is a term that needs to go away in a hurry Why? Because you know the Canucks have been bad at it lately? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shift-4 Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 42 minutes ago, Z Hockey said: Why? Because you know the Canucks have been bad at it lately? 2/10 troll attempt try harder Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alflives Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 2 hours ago, Z Hockey said: Who cares wether some of the top six players in LA or Washington are good but not HOFers like a lot of the Hawks top six are. Who cares, they're just as good with their entire top six/nine spread out and healthy and for example... Backstrom has scored 100 points multiple times, Toews has never hit 80, Toews may be the HOFer, but Backstrom can compete with Toews any day of the week, especially offensively. LA and CHI top six comparison WSH and CHI top six comparison Kopitar = Toews Backstrom = Toews (Backstrom wins in the offense dept.) J. Carter > Anisimov Kuznetsov >> Anisimov Lucic = Ladd Ovechkin >>>> Ladd Gaborik/Pearson = Panarin/Fleischmann Burakovsky/Johansson = Panarin/Fleischmann Toffoli & Brown/Versteeg < P. Kane & Hossa/Shaw Oshie & Williams = P. Kane & Hossa (Slight edge to Chicago here offensively) All pretty close, this isn't even factoring in D and goaltending Five of the last six Cups go to LA and CHI because of the players you listed, but don't forget about DOUGHTY and KEITH. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Kane Posted March 19, 2016 Share Posted March 19, 2016 4 hours ago, Z Hockey said: Who cares wether some of the top six players in LA or Washington are good but not HOFers like a lot of the Hawks top six are. Who cares, they're just as good with their entire top six/nine spread out and healthy and for example... Backstrom has scored 100 points multiple times, Toews has never hit 80, Toews may be the HOFer, but Backstrom can compete with Toews any day of the week, especially offensively. LA and CHI top six comparison WSH and CHI top six comparison Kopitar = Toews Backstrom = Toews (Backstrom wins in the offense dept.) J. Carter > Anisimov Kuznetsov >> Anisimov Lucic = Ladd Ovechkin >>>> Ladd Gaborik/Pearson = Panarin/Fleischmann Burakovsky/Johansson = Panarin/Fleischmann Toffoli & Brown/Versteeg < P. Kane & Hossa/Shaw Oshie & Williams = P. Kane & Hossa (Slight edge to Chicago here offensively) All pretty close, this isn't even factoring in D and goaltending I don't agree with the Kopitar and Backstrom comparison to Toews. But they are fine players (all three) and there's not much seperation no matter whom you think it better. Carter and Kuznetsov better than Anisimov? Ya, probably. But it's not by a wide margin either. Lucic = Ladd? Sorry, but Ladd is far superior. Ovechkin > Ladd? Of course. Oshie & Williams = Kane and Hossa? Have to disagree with you there. As for goaltening, I'd say Quick = Crawford. Their numbers are almost identical, especially in the playoffs. Holtby had been stellar the last two regular seasons, but he hasn't accomplished what Quick and Crawford have Edit: I missed your Panarin/Fleishmann comparison. That's a tough one. Panarin is an unknown commodity it the NHL playoffs. I think I'll wait to make a call on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Z Hockey Posted March 19, 2016 Author Share Posted March 19, 2016 1 hour ago, Shift-4 said: 2/10 troll attempt try harder I was being serious, I don't agree with you just thinking asset management isn't serious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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