Anton Rodin | RW/LW

[86Viking]

ok, let me rephase id like to see a young player we draft come into the league fairly soon after being drafted and make a significant impact, maybe bump a higher priced player or allow for us to trade players for future picks or prospects that are dead weight on this team or are redundant or over paid

[Erik Karlsson]

ok, let me rephase id like to see a young player we draft come into the league fairly soon after being drafted and make a significant impact, maybe bump a higher priced player or allow for us to trade players for future picks or prospects that are dead weight on this team or are redundant or over paid

We draft to late to pick a player good enough to step into the NHL right away and our team is pretty deep so they're better off developing first anyways.

[Salmonberries]

Atlanta wasn't unhappy, they were neglectful and didn't care about their prospects. They didn't care about making the effort to build a bridge between their AHL team and NHL team.

Give me a break. I loathe this perpetuating rumour. Our kids are stagnating because of a coach the Canucks pushed for, Arniel, and a rookie defense coach in Baumgartner, another Canuck. You can't put the blame solely on the Wolves and then conveniently forget how MacT provided a great developmental year for just about all our prospects last season. Its absurd. Its Arniel who was forcefeeding Ebbett and Haydar when they were struggling mightly.

MacT did more developmentally than Arniel has. yet the organization has stayed the same. Puzzling, I know, but the coach you choose really does make a difference. Blame the Canucks' decision hiring Arniel, not the Wolves.

If you want to know why Rodin is struggling, look no further than searching Anton Rodin in google. He has the skill/talent and had his first healthy offseason. His inconsistency is inexplicable and inexcusable.

So, in your estimation, it's all on Scott Arniel then? The funny thing is, I don't remember people grousing about the lousy job Arniel was doing with our kids during the four years he he was head coach in Manitoba.

If all this is true, that it's all on Scott Arniel and the Wolves factor is really not a factor at all then we have to accept that:

young inexperienced Arniel=good

older NHL experienced Arneil=bad

Sorry DJ, it's not an equation that equates for me.

[Salmonberries]

Atlanta wasn't unhappy, they were neglectful and didn't care about their prospects. They didn't care about making the effort to build a bridge between their AHL team and NHL team.

Give me a break. I loathe this perpetuating rumour. Our kids are stagnating because of a coach the Canucks pushed for, Arniel, and a rookie defense coach in Baumgartner, another Canuck. You can't put the blame solely on the Wolves and then conveniently forget how MacT provided a great developmental year for just about all our prospects last season. Its absurd. Its Arniel who was forcefeeding Ebbett and Haydar when they were struggling mightly.

MacT did more developmentally than Arniel has. yet the organization has stayed the same. Puzzling, I know, but the coach you choose really does make a difference. Blame the Canucks' decision hiring Arniel, not the Wolves.

If you want to know why Rodin is struggling, look no further than searching Anton Rodin in google. He has the skill/talent and had his first healthy offseason. His inconsistency is inexplicable and inexcusable.

Not to 'kill a fly with a brick wall' but I thought I might as well include a list of NHhlers that developed under Arniel in the Manitoba years.

This list of players includes:

Jannik Hansen

Alexander Edler

Rick Rypien (RIP)

Mayson Raymond

Mike Brown

Mark Fistric

Pierre Cedric Labrie

Luc Bourdon (RIP)

Cory Schneider

Let's at least get a sampling of opinion from the players that Arniel graduated to the NHL before we throw him under the bus eh.

[bluesy_shoes]

Not to 'kill a fly with a brick wall' but I thought I might as well include a list of NHhlers that developed under Arniel in the Manitoba years.

This list of players includes:

Jannik Hansen

Alexander Edler

Rick Rypien (RIP)

Mayson Raymond

Mike Brown

Mark Fistric

Pierre Cedric Labrie

Luc Bourdon (RIP)

Cory Schneider

Let's at least get a sampling of opinion from the players that Arniel graduated to the NHL before we throw him under the bus eh.

So what's your argument then? You've said you are unhappy with our players getting bumped down the depth chart because of Wolves signees, but you are happy with the coach the Canucks appointed that is playing them over our prospects? If you trust the coach, then maybe he's got a reason to not play our players?

[Salmonberries]

So what's your argument then? You've said you are unhappy with our players getting bumped down the depth chart because of Wolves signees, but you are happy with the coach the Canucks appointed that is playing them over our prospects? If you trust the coach, then maybe he's got a reason to not play our players?

You're assuming complete autonomy on Arniel's part in playing who he wants to where he wants to and how much he wants to. I'm not. I'm guessing there is local pressure on Arniel from the Wolves brass to play the vets at the expense of our youth. I think the Wolves would be best off and happiest going back to their roots as an indie org. I think they have an indie mindset that they have never shaken from their IHL days.

[Salmonberries]

But you guys could be right and I could be way off base here. I have no inside knowledge of the situation, just an instinct.

We won't know definitively until this summer when the Canucks set their affiliation for the coming seasons.

[WonderTwinPowers]

Not to 'kill a fly with a brick wall' but I thought I might as well include a list of NHhlers that developed under Arniel in the Manitoba years.

This list of players includes:

Jannik Hansen

Alexander Edler

Rick Rypien (RIP)

Mayson Raymond

Mike Brown

Mark Fistric

Pierre Cedric Labrie

Luc Bourdon (RIP)

Cory Schneider

Let's at least get a sampling of opinion from the players that Arniel graduated to the NHL before we throw him under the bus eh.

Not to be a Debbie downer but since when is PC Labrie an NHL player?? Not arguing with anyone else on the list but that's an odd one to throw on there 16 NHL games over 6 professional years says AHLer at best

[NuxFan09]

You're assuming complete autonomy on Arniel's part in playing who he wants to where he wants to and how much he wants to. I'm not. I'm guessing there is local pressure on Arniel from the Wolves brass to play the vets at the expense of our youth. I think the Wolves would be best off and happiest going back to their roots as an indie org. I think they have an indie mindset that they have never shaken from their IHL days.

This is the key in all of this. I think Arniel was in a completely different situation in Manitoba with different priorities and directives. I get the feeling the Wolves as an organization have no interest in handing the reins in all situations to prospects. The Moose weren't an all-prospect team by any means, but I get the feeling they were more concerned with developing their parent team's prospects than the Wolves are. Case in point: Climie (Wolves property) getting 10+ straight starts, no doubt contributing to the injury he eventually succumbed to, rather than giving Cannata a couple games in there. Or, Andersson not getting a lick of PP time despite putting up several points lately and being one of their top pairing defensemen at even strength.

[wshdrvvn]

ok, let me rephase id like to see a young player we draft come into the league fairly soon after being drafted and make a significant impact, maybe bump a higher priced player or allow for us to trade players for future picks or prospects that are dead weight on this team or are redundant or over paid

I see, and agree too. Jensen is the only one i could see having a small shot at it but honestly for him to make a big impact, i think that will be a few years. that's sort of how it works when you draft late several years in a row

[Salmonberries]

Not to be a Debbie downer but since when is PC Labrie an NHL player?? Not arguing with anyone else on the list but that's an odd one to throw on there 16 NHL games over 6 professional years says AHLer at best

Fair enough. I guess I saw him playing for the 'Ning last week in a televised game and just assumed he'd cracked the lineup right out of camp as low cost forth line muscle without really checking the numbers.

Nice catch eh!

[Canvoucer Vanuck]

In hindsight, it may have been better for him to stay over in Sweden until he was more physically developed. He's much too small right now to handle the punishing play of the AHL.

He may have benefited more from developing his strength and skill in a league that focuses more on skill.

Oh well, hopefully he can still develop into an NHLer one day. He has the skillset, he just needs to add some strength and confidence to his game.

Good points. His lack of strength has been an issue, and injuries even more so.

[DJ Kreuzberg]

So, in your estimation, it's all on Scott Arniel then? The funny thing is, I don't remember people grousing about the lousy job Arniel was doing with our kids during the four years he he was head coach in Manitoba.

If all this is true, that it's all on Scott Arniel and the Wolves factor is really not a factor at all then we have to accept that:

young inexperienced Arniel=good

older NHL experienced Arneil=bad

Sorry DJ, it's not an equation that equates for me.

Might not add up to what your perceptions are, but watching the way he is coaching the team game in and game out, he definitely shares a majority of the blame for the poor start this season with his personnel decisions and his ability to control a team. How many goals have they given up 2 minutes after they score a goal? How many blown leads have they had in the 3rd? How much have they been outscored in the 3rd? These are all issues he let flounder for weeks and pissed away points.

So how do you explain MacT's team? You still have yet to touch on that. The Chicago Wolves organization were one and the same, still have the same GM and mgmt team. Connauton got first pairing minutes, first PP, some PK time. Sweatt, Schroeder, Rodin were given top 6 spots, Rodin was given top PP minutes for a majority of the year. Schroeder was given top PK minutes, whereas this season, he was not even on the top 2 PK units. Tanev in his time there got first pairing minutes, top PP, top PK. Sauve got prime shutdown minutes and was used on the top PK unit. Each of these guys experienced great development years with ample playing time last season

How does this signify a Chicago Wolves team that has an ulterior motive of preferring vets and inhibiting the development of players? Sorry, it just doesn't jive with what i've seen on the ice and what i've heard from the commentators.

You're assuming complete autonomy on Arniel's part in playing who he wants to where he wants to and how much he wants to. I'm not. I'm guessing there is local pressure on Arniel from the Wolves brass to play the vets at the expense of our youth. I think the Wolves would be best off and happiest going back to their roots as an indie org. I think they have an indie mindset that they have never shaken from their IHL days.

That's all you are going on, a guess, a hunch, whatever you are calling it. Where is the basis of this guess? Edited February 9, 2013 by DJ Kreuzberg

[Canvoucer Vanuck]

The more I think about it, though, the more I realize that there is only so much Scott Arniel and the Wolves can do. I mean, take a look at all the Canucks have down in Chicago:

Anton Rodin

Alex Friesen

Kevin Connauton

Peter Andersson

Adam Polasek

Joe Cannata

____________________________

Rodin has maybe been a bit under-used but at the same time is struggling with consistency and the physicality, even at the AHL level. After all is said and done, he's a skill player so he could benefit from a chance on the top line with Haydar and Gordon but given his lack of production you can't fault the coaching staff for using him more sparingly. He also does have a plum spot on the first PP unit so the coaching staff is seemingly still trying to make use of his skill to some degree.

Alex Friesen is being used as a 4th line centre and really, what more did we expect from him this season? He was always projected to be a bottom line role playing center anyway and this is his rookie season in the AHL to boot. Unless he was providing more offense, this seems like an appropriate role for him at this point. He's probably capable of bumping Stefan Schneider on the centre depth chart but that's about it.

Kevin Connauton perhaps has an argument for unfair treatment. He was used on the top pairing and top PP unit last year by McTavish and this year has bumped down a level in all situations. He regularly plays on the 2nd pairing, or even 3rd pairing at even strength and on the 2nd PP unit. Because of his defensive deficiencies, I don't necessarily have an issue with his role 5 on 5 but with his offensive tools he should be a mainstay on the 1st PP unit.

Peter Andersson has been a success this season and yes, it's in part because of the coaching staff in fact rewarding him with the opportunities. This is his rookie season in the AHL and he was obviously used more sparingly to begin the season but he has gained the coaching staff's trust as evidenced by his regular spot on the top defense pairing now. Guys like Hunt or Matheson could be playing ahead of him now, but no, the Wolves regularly put their faith in him. He probably deserves a look over Matheson on the 2nd PP unit, though.

Adam Polasek is a guy I can't really comment on. Didn't watch a lot of the Wolves at the beginning of the season and when I did start paying more attention he was with the Wings in the ECHL. The most I can say is that Polasek maybe deserves more of a look on the third pairing than he's getting but hasn't outplayed any of the top 5 of Andersson, Joslin, Connauton, Hunt and Matheson so there's really no complaint to be had about him getting a bigger opportunity than that of a bottom pairing defenseman.

Joe Cannata is getting his chance to play regularly now only because of the injuries to both Chicago's goalies (Lack and Climie) and has fortunately made the most of his opportunities by playing lights out, although he has looked more ordinary in his last two games in which he has allowed 3 goals in each. When both Lack and Climie are healthy, there's really no argument against him playing in the ECHL. He might as well get the playing time. Cannata was underused, however, when Lack got injured and the coaching staff started Climie something like 10 straight games.

In a nutshell, there are certain situations in which Canucks prospects could maybe be more utilized - aka Andersson on the 2nd PP unit, Connauton on the 1st PP unit, Cannata in net more often even when Climie is healthy - but they are generally being used according to their capabilities. We all want our prospects to succeed but at the same time we can't assume they're all entitled to starring roles by pretending they're better than they actually are. The Canucks have a promising, even underrated, crop of young talent but they're not THAT great either.

Great summary!

Rodin for whatever reason hasn't been able to produce. He had his first healthy offseason as was mentioned above but I suspect that his shoulder injuries and concussions have left him tentative and hesitant to initiate contact... something you can't get by without doing in the North American game.

He also doesn't shoot nearly as much as he should too, as he has a decent shot. Granted he's been doing a lot more of that lately but it's been a long, long time coming. He was PPG in the month of November (1g, 7a) and nearly averaged 2 shots per game, but hasn't been able to match that pace in any month afterwards until recently, after the lockout ended.

His play always seems to leave people wanting more. He has to find a way to stay healthy consistently, first and foremost. And then he can work on finding ways to put up points. Otherwise he'll probably be headed back to Europe very soon.

Edit: It would help if he could improve his two-way game.

Edited February 9, 2013 by Canvoucer Vanuck

[Salmonberries]

Might not add up to what your perceptions are, but watching the way he is coaching the team game in and game out, he definitely shares a majority of the blame for the poor start this season with his personnel decisions and his ability to control a team. How many goals have they given up 2 minutes after they score a goal? How many blown leads have they had in the 3rd? How much have they been outscored in the 3rd? These are all issues he let flounder for weeks and pissed away points.

So how do you explain MacT's team? You still have yet to touch on that. The Chicago Wolves organization were one and the same, still have the same GM and mgmt team. Connauton got first pairing minutes, first PP, some PK time. Sweatt, Schroeder, Rodin were given top 6 spots, Rodin was given top PP minutes for a majority of the year. Schroeder was given top PK minutes, whereas this season, he was not even on the top 2 PK units. Tanev in his time there got first pairing minutes, top PP, top PK. Sauve got prime shutdown minutes and was used on the top PK unit. Each of these guys experienced great development years with ample playing time last season

How does this signify a Chicago Wolves team that has an ulterior motive of preferring vets and inhibiting the development of players? Sorry, it just doesn't jive with what i've seen on the ice and what i've heard from the commentators.

That's all you are going on, a guess, a hunch, whatever you are calling it. Where is the basis of this guess?

First of all, I'm more than willing to concede that Craig MacTavish is a better coach than Scott Arniel. In fact, I was hoping MacTavish would eventually inherit the head coaching job here in Vancouver. When we assess the performance of the Wolves team this season, I think it's important to recognize the impact the lockout has had on the rosters around the AHL, it isn't really the AHL anymore when the Oklahoma City Barons are icing the entire Edmonton Oilers first line and four-fifths of their first pp unit. I think the lockout portion of the AHL season has been so atypical of an AHL season that it needs to be thrown out when trying to assess performance of the true AHL teams. The Wolves didn't benefit in nearly the same way by the inclusion of quality young NHLers on ELCs as many other teams did. Let's wait and have a look at these teams performance with their true rosters over the second half before we make our final judgement.

My hunch is based mainly on the litany of complaints over the years I have read from disgruntled Atlanta Thrashers fans on other hockey boards like HF about the lack of development of Thrashers prospects during their long association with the Wolves. The demotion of Adam Polasek to the ECHL and the stagnation of Anton Rodin are major red flags. Really all Canucks affiliated personnel seem to be underachieving this year.

You may be right. It may all be on Scott Arniel. Maybe he forgot how to coach during his tenure with the Blue Jackets. We'll see.

[86Viking]

We draft to late to pick a player good enough to step into the NHL right away and our team is pretty deep so they're better off developing first anyways.

when was ryan oreilly drafted? he stepped in right away.

We havent had a 18-20year old crack our line up since??? skill testing question anyone know?

[DJ Kreuzberg]

First of all, I'm more than willing to concede that Craig MacTavish is a better coach than Scott Arniel. In fact, I was hoping MacTavish would eventually inherit the head coaching job here in Vancouver. When we assess the performance of the Wolves team this season, I think it's important to recognize the impact the lockout has had on the rosters around the AHL, it isn't really the AHL anymore when the Oklahoma City Barons are icing the entire Edmonton Oilers first line and four-fifths of their first pp unit. I think the lockout portion of the AHL season has been so atypical of an AHL season that it needs to be thrown out when trying to assess performance of the true AHL teams. The Wolves didn't benefit in nearly the same way by the inclusion of quality young NHLers on ELCs as many other teams did. Let's wait and have a look at these teams performance with their true rosters over the second half before we make our final judgement.

My hunch is based mainly on the litany of complaints over the years I have read from disgruntled Atlanta Thrashers fans on other hockey boards like HF about the lack of development of Thrashers prospects during their long association with the Wolves. The demotion of Adam Polasek to the ECHL and the stagnation of Anton Rodin are major red flags. Really all Canucks affiliated personnel seem to be underachieving this year.

You may be right. It may all be on Scott Arniel. Maybe he forgot how to coach during his tenure with the Blue Jackets. We'll see.

So how does an organization go from developing prospects well one year to distinctly preferring to play their vets and ruining our prospects, when the organization has not changed a single bit? The only significant change was the coaching staff, brought along and supported by the Canucks.

So you assess this lockout AHL season, understand that the level of play has increased due to NHL players being on AHL rosters and give Arniel the benefit of the doubt. But you use the Polasek demotion as an indictment against the Wolves? Did you take a look at D line up at the beginning of the season?

Tanev - Canucks

Connauton - Canucks

Joslin - Canucks

Mullen - Canucks

Andersson - Canucks

Sauve - Canucks

Matheson - Wolves

Hunt - Wolves

Miskovic - Wolves

That's 6 out of 9 for the Canucks. That's a defensive core that Polasek would not allow Polasek to play big minutes like he should be. And I love Polasek, after watching all of his games last season, I really thought he could step to become a regular this season but playing time for him is more important than warming a bench in this AHL lockout affected year.

---------

So your hunch is based on what you've read on HF and based on the Wolves interactions with their previous NHL affiliate. But not with the Vancouver Canucks? Several people close to the team have been on record to say that the involvement by the Canucks is night and day than with the Thrashers and that it is significantly better. Lorne Henning is very active in their management and is frequently in Chicago to provide his input and supervise the development of prospects there.

Rather than use their relationship with the Trashers, take a look at their relationship with the Canucks.

[Salmonberries]

[DJ Kreuzberg]

Wow, what a compelling argument. You get a well deserved slow clap.

I know it's hard to argue with someone who watches all the games and uses logic, but a video? You can do better.

[Salmonberries]

So how does an organization go from developing prospects well one year to distinctly preferring to play their vets and ruining our prospects, when the organization has not changed a single bit? The only significant change was the coaching staff, brought along and supported by the Canucks.

So you assess this lockout AHL season, understand that the level of play has increased due to NHL players being on AHL rosters and give Arniel the benefit of the doubt. But you use the Polasek demotion as an indictment against the Wolves? Did you take a look at D line up at the beginning of the season?

Tanev - Canucks

Connauton - Canucks

Joslin - Canucks

Mullen - Canucks

Andersson - Canucks

Sauve - Canucks

Matheson - Wolves

Hunt - Wolves

Miskovic - Wolves

That's 6 out of 9 for the Canucks. That's a defensive core that Polasek would not allow Polasek to play big minutes like he should be. And I love Polasek, after watching all of his games last season, I really thought he could step to become a regular this season but playing time for him is more important than warming a bench in this AHL lockout affected year.

---------

So your hunch is based on what you've read on HF and based on the Wolves interactions with their previous NHL affiliate. But not with the Vancouver Canucks? Several people close to the team have been on record to say that the involvement by the Canucks is night and day than with the Thrashers and that it is significantly better. Lorne Henning is very active in their management and is frequently in Chicago to provide his input and supervise the development of prospects there.

Rather than use their relationship with the Trashers, take a look at their relationship with the Canucks.

My hunch is informed by the idea that the lockout completely turned the competitive balance of power on it's ear and made the Wolves a less competitive team than they would have been in a normal AHL season. it just isn't the same league with all of those young NHLers around; you want to pin the consequences of this on the shoulders of Scott Arniel. Where was all this anti-Arniel sentiment during the four year tenure in Winnipeg with the Moose anyway. Are you seriously trying to tell me thay he has forgotten how to coach/develop young players in two short years?

.