(Proposal) VAN - TOR

[DownUndaCanuck]

Firstly I just want to say this post is not about Virtanen or the 6th overall pick at all, but more about our organizational needs now and in the future.

 

We've seen in the last half of the season especially that the Sedins are slowing down big-time, in particular their playmaking ability is dropping off, their speed is gone and they can't defend. When the Canucks were in their prime, they had Henrik and Kesler as the top two centers. A good scoring, playmaking center and a good defensive center. In the ideal world in the NHL, you have two great centers who can all do a bit of both, but ideally we need a #1 and a #2 center, both who can score and defend. Right now with the Sedins tailing off quickly, we need to replace that niche. Horvat is a fantastic 1 or 2 center and is carrying the team right now, but he'll need help - ESPECIALLY if we ever want to contend for the Cup again, and looking at this young prospect pool, we need a center who can pass the puck and make plays, but can also defend well (because IMO this was the reason we lost the Cup in 2011 - the Sedins poor defence VS the Bruins good defence from forwards).

 

Looking at our prospects, we have lots of scorers and not many ELITE playmakers - Boeser, Virtanen, Granlund, Horvat and Baertschi are all good scorers and can pass the puck but are mainly shooters first. Granlund and Baertschi pass a bit more but are far from elite playmakers, whereas I'd classify Boeser and Horvat as elite scorers (Virtanen could be an elite powerforward). That's a fantastic young group but we need a Henrik Sedin-like playmaker for this team's future.

 

Summary: We need a young elite playmaking center who can play well defensively

 

Now look at our group - we have plenty of good defencemen coming up. Lots of strong young defencemen on both sides and if we've got a trading chip, it's those guys. Edler and Tanev are still top-4 defencemen on most teams. Hutton and Gudbranson are bottom-4 defencemen on most teams. Sbisa is really a middle-of-the-pack defenceman on most teams, most likely a #4-5 guy. Stecher is going to be a prime top-3 defenceman and Subban is a wild-card, not to mention Tryamkin who is proving he may well become a consistent top-4 guy. That's a lot of future and current top-4 defencemen. No elite guys, some potential for Tryamkin and Stecher, but no future star D-man.

 

Summary: We have lots of good top-4 current and future defencemen

 

Looking over to Toronto, they have the exact opposite. They have PLENTY of good young forwards who can score and make plays, and most importantly, almost too many centers. Marner is leading the way right now with Matthews - both natural centers. Kadri is finally scoring consistently too, another center, and Bozak is proving to be a pretty damn good 3C scoring almost at the same rate as Nylander who's mainly being used as a winger. They also have Hyman who's scoring at a 3rd line center pace and Komorov is anchoring their 4th line. Essentially, they have 7 guys who can play center, many are playing on the wing.

 

On defence, they've got some good passers and Gardiner is having a hell of a year, but they could really use some top end depth. The majority of their defencemen are left handers as well. These guys need a top-4 right handed defenceman who can mainly play well defensively, especially if they want to be serious about this playoff push.

 

Summary: Toronto have lots of young centers (7) and need a right handed defenceman

 

Essentially, they are the perfect dance partners for the Canucks for right now. Here is a serious options for fixing both teams. The Leafs are making a hard playoff push so will want defensive help now and in the near future, while the Canucks are more or less looking for a younger center to aid in our Cup run in about 3-5 years time.

 

 

 

TO VAN:  William Nylander
TO TOR:  Chris Tanev

 

Straight up switch. With Marner leading their scoring at such a young age he looks like he might end up their top center with Matthews close behind. I know Nylander has mainly played wing but he's played center in the SHL and is still very convertible back to center. Matthews seems untouchable and the way Marner's playing we'd essentially have to give up Horvat +++ which isn't happening. That leaves Nylander as the odd man out. Not scoring as much, but he's got future star potential and more importantly, he's a brilliant passer and playmaker, making Matthews much better too. At 20, he's proven he can play with men and jump right into the Canucks NHL roster. I feel he'd really learn from Henrik Sedin too and hopefully mould his playmaking around the twins. 

 

This has nothing to do with us drafting Virtanen ahead of Nylander, but more addressing both the Canucks needs and Toronto's needs with each of the team's strong points.

 

As for Toronto, they get an instant top-4 if not top-2 right handed shutdown defenceman to help their left handed puck movers. He could slide right in alongside Gardiner and make a pretty good top pairing. Still being young and in his prime, Tanev has another couple of years of solid play and because he doesn't play too physically I'd say he'd still be useful into his early 30s. If the Leafs want we throw in a late pick to account for age difference but this is a pretty fair trade all up considering the timing and needs of both clubs.

 

Cap hits are similar and in terms of protecting players it doesn't change too much. The Leafs luckily won't have to protect many of their rookies so can afford to protect Tanev.

 

From the Canucks stand-point, we have Stecher replace Tanev's role next year instantly, see how Subban goes but with Stecher and Gudbranson on the right side, we still have Sbisa, (possibly Edler), Tryamkin and maybe Subban. Up front we've got some options. Horvat becomes #1C, Nylander may even go #2C or play as a winger for now while we still have Henrik and Sutter. 

 

Whether Horvat or Nylander end up first or second liners doesn't matter, we have essentially a playmaking center and two-way center. Nylander fills a massive organizational hole and ironically might be best to play him with Virtanen in the end anyway.

 

 

[Alflives]

Nylander is a winger at the NHL level, because he is horrific defensively as a centre.  I thought you said we needed another top two way centre to go along with Bo?

[Sbriggs]

5 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Nylander is a winger at the NHL level, because he is horrific defensively as a centre.  I thought you said we needed another top two way centre to go along with Bo?

Agreed and I don't think Nylander is tough enough for the west, reminds me of Vey

[ItsMillerTime]

I think he will draft a centre this year guys like Glass, Hishier, Patrick and Valiardi are all in the canucks range of getting a draft pick.

[oldnews]

all that text for a retread proposal?

[billabong]

I as well am not sold on nyander being productive in the west. 

 

To me, he's a powerplay specialist with exceptional skill. After that he doesn't contribute much.

 

in 7 game series against any of the California teams, ughh I would fear for nylanders life 

[DownUndaCanuck]

4 hours ago, billabong said:

I as well am not sold on nyander being productive in the west. 

 

To me, he's a powerplay specialist with exceptional skill. After that he doesn't contribute much.

 

in 7 game series against any of the California teams, ughh I would fear for nylanders life 

There has been a knock on Nylander and Ehler's physicality and strength since they've been drafted. Heck even Marner copped slack for being small.

 

Look what they've been doing to NHL defenders and big tough guys all season long. Embarassing them with skill.

 

Gone are the days where you have to be 6'2" and 200lbs + to be effective in the playoffs. Look at the Blackhawks. Pat Kane and Panarin are prime examples of why you don't need to be massive to win Cups. Skill has it's place in the NHL and with the league becoming faster and higher-paced than before, skill trumps size nowadays in the playoffs.

 

No doubt you need physicality along the lineup, but you also need skill, and IMO the best way to do this is complement highly skilled playmakers/scorers with tough powerforwards. That's where Bo steps in. That's where Virtanen steps in. We put skilled guys (Boeser/Baertschi, Nylander) with tough guys on the same line (Horvat, Virtanen respectively) and together you have the best of both worlds.

 

It's rare to get a big tough physical guy who can score 80-90 points anymore, so NHL teams are picking specialists at their fields, putting them together and having success.

 

Nylander has proven in his short NHL career that he's tough enough to contend against men and score goals. Ehlers has done the same. The argument that the West is bigger and tougher is a joke as well - we're in the weakest division of the weakest conference right now, and size-wise the Ducks and Kings and Sharks are objectively no bigger than the Capitals for example, and who knows what the divisions will be like in 3-5 years when we're hitting our prime.

[Sbriggs]

12 minutes ago, DownUndaCanuck said:

There has been a knock on Nylander and Ehler's physicality and strength since they've been drafted. Heck even Marner copped slack for being small.

 

Look what they've been doing to NHL defenders and big tough guys all season long. Embarassing them with skill.

 

Gone are the days where you have to be 6'2" and 200lbs + to be effective in the playoffs. Look at the Blackhawks. Pat Kane and Panarin are prime examples of why you don't need to be massive to win Cups. Skill has it's place in the NHL and with the league becoming faster and higher-paced than before, skill trumps size nowadays in the playoffs.

 

No doubt you need physicality along the lineup, but you also need skill, and IMO the best way to do this is complement highly skilled playmakers/scorers with tough powerforwards. That's where Bo steps in. That's where Virtanen steps in. We put skilled guys (Boeser/Baertschi, Nylander) with tough guys on the same line (Horvat, Virtanen respectively) and together you have the best of both worlds.

 

It's rare to get a big tough physical guy who can score 80-90 points anymore, so NHL teams are picking specialists at their fields, putting them together and having success.

 

Nylander has proven in his short NHL career that he's tough enough to contend against men and score goals. Ehlers has done the same. The argument that the West is bigger and tougher is a joke as well - we're in the weakest division of the weakest conference right now, and size-wise the Ducks and Kings and Sharks are objectively no bigger than the Capitals for example, and who knows what the divisions will be like in 3-5 years when we're hitting our prime.

I agree with Bong, Play offs are a different animal and there's no comparing Kane's grit to Nylander's I think he's not a fit for the west. Remember what Calgary did to us a few years ago, can't let that happen again

[Shiftynifty]

I like this trade quite a lot. If we acquire Nylander, we don't necessarily have to play him at centre; having a skilled winger could really elevate Bo's game or shoot-first guys like Sutter.