Trudeau more unpopular than popular for the first time since election: survey

[Ryan Strome]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

As I was editing my comment I will repost it.  

 

1.  Sorry I think I posted my facts pretty credibly.  You can state otherwise but it's pretty frigging plain to see.  They're literally right there in your quoted response

 

2.  In fact you did, the thread still exists.  You blamed Notley for chasing away investment in Alberta, you accused her of being part of the reason oil in Alberta was not getting to market and thus part of the reason Alberta was getting such low prices per barrel

 

3.  Yes they were in fact in power when BC was labeled a have not province.  Why again?  My initial question which you absolutely didn't even try to answer.  Like at all.  I answered that, feel free to use my work if you want..  As for the debt by the numbers no they did not "double the debt" they increased it by under $14 billion while it was already sitting at $20.4 billion by the time they took office at the end of 1991 in November, essentially starting their fiscal year as of Jan 1st 1991.  So no, again my facts are literally in your quoted response.

 

https://catalogue.data.gov.bc.ca/dataset/bc-finance-historical-provincial-debt-summary-1969-1970-to-2011-12-table-a2-15/resource/aa954845-c0c3-4d1d-a48b-ed257206e122

The author is defending the ndp hip and even states they doubled it.

 

Consider this: when the Liberals came into power in 2001, the provincial debt stood at $33.8-billion. In 2011, it was estimated to be $45.2-billion. And we know it is only going to keep growing between now and at least 2013, if not longer.

This is not the kind of record that a party that prides itself on responsible fiscal management wants with an election 17 months in the offing. And yet, the provincial New Democratic Party has been strangely silent on the debt issue.

On one hand it makes little sense. This should be something the NDP seizes upon given the extent to which the Liberals have dined out politically on the perception they are better stewards of the provincial treasury than the New Democrats. In fact, the Liberals have won the last three elections by scaring the electorate into believing it would be making a huge mistake entrusting the economy with the New Democrats given what they did with it while in power in the 1990s.

The NDP economic record during its decade in office was not as bad as the Liberals suggest. In fact, there is a case to be made that the provincial economy grew at a faster clip under the New Democrats than it did under the Liberals – but then so did overall debt.

And maybe that's why the NDP has not said much publicly about the province's soaring debt levels under the Liberals – because the party knows it had a worse record on that front when it was in office.

When the NDP assumed power in 1991, the B.C. provincial debt was $17-billion. When it got kicked out in 2001, it was nearly $34-billion. The NDP doubled it.

 

Somebody needs to be talking about B.C.'s debt load

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/british-columbia/somebody-needs-to-be-talking-about-bcs-debt-load/article4247786/

[Ryan Strome]

@Warhippy @Jimmy McGill as usual it's been a slice but thats enough politics tonight. We will get back at er tomorrow.

[Warhippy]

4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

1) Absolutely, I have said that many times.

 

2) proof please

 

Again facts eh? Bob Rae and the ndp put Ontario in record debt and defecit and you're blaming Harris. Lol how convenient.

So again context, facts

 

You murdered that guy!  No...he was attacking my wife and children with a knife.  Ya but you shot him he's dead you murdered him, why doesn't matter you murdered him.

 

That's literally what you're doing.  But hey, again for CONTEXT.  Almost NO province in canada with a GDP that depended on forestry and manufacturing  did well in the early through mid 90s.

 

The government of Ontario's debt has risen under all governments since 1989.

 

But let me use an oft repeated Conservative talking point.  Buh Buh Buh Harper raised his debt under a recession and Trudeau isn't.  But Rae/Harcourt/Clark all don't get the same consideration because NDP and the 90s had NAFTA and the forestry act and it is somehow someway totally different because context doesn't matter.

 

As for Harris I will point out something very VERY simple via bolding it.  I will hope you can explain why the recession in the early through mid 90s, the advent of NAFTA and the sustainable forestry act enacted by major lumber producing nations that saw 100's of thousands of jobs in canada lost through the forestry and manufacturing sectors is somehow completely not an important consideration or point of fact but I know, full well much like your inability or unwillingness to answer Jimmys very simple question, that you can't, you won't and you'll repeat yourself instead 

 

During the 1990s recession, the Ontario New Democratic Party (NDP) government of Premier Bob Rae increased the total debt from $35.4 billion in 1989-1990 to $90.7 billion in 1994-1995.

 

The Progressive Conservative government of Premier Mike Harris increased the debt from $90.7 billion in 1994-1995 to $132.6 billion in 2002-2003, even while cutting services and downloading formerly provincially-run services onto the municipalities.^[8] In the 1999-2000 budget, the Mike Harris government paid $3.1 billion towards the total deficit by selling the rights to the government-owned Highway 407/ETR in the form of 99-year lease to a private consortium.

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

The author is defending the ndp hip and even states they doubled it.

 

Consider this: when the Liberals came into power in 2001, the provincial debt stood at $33.8-billion. In 2011, it was estimated to be $45.2-billion. And we know it is only going to keep growing between now and at least 2013, if not longer.

This is not the kind of record that a party that prides itself on responsible fiscal management wants with an election 17 months in the offing. And yet, the provincial New Democratic Party has been strangely silent on the debt issue.

On one hand it makes little sense. This should be something the NDP seizes upon given the extent to which the Liberals have dined out politically on the perception they are better stewards of the provincial treasury than the New Democrats. In fact, the Liberals have won the last three elections by scaring the electorate into believing it would be making a huge mistake entrusting the economy with the New Democrats given what they did with it while in power in the 1990s.

The NDP economic record during its decade in office was not as bad as the Liberals suggest. In fact, there is a case to be made that the provincial economy grew at a faster clip under the New Democrats than it did under the Liberals – but then so did overall debt.

And maybe that's why the NDP has not said much publicly about the province's soaring debt levels under the Liberals – because the party knows it had a worse record on that front when it was in office.

When the NDP assumed power in 1991, the B.C. provincial debt was $17-billion. When it got kicked out in 2001, it was nearly $34-billion. The NDP doubled it.

 

Somebody needs to be talking about B.C.'s debt load

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/news/british-columbia/somebody-needs-to-be-talking-about-bcs-debt-load/article4247786/

Incorrect, the NDP did not take power until Nov 1991, thus starting their fiscal year in Jan 1992 where the debt had already ballooned to $20.04 billion dollars.  Again, context/facts/numbers

 

But then the only part of that entire article you key in to was the potential doubling of the debt but not the fact that even with all the job losses, housing issues, NAFTA and sustainable forestry pratices act as well as the nation wide recession that the NDP managed to grow the actual economy, during an actual recession and the worst near decade of  job losses in provincial history 

[johngould21]

3 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

I can almost guarantee you I have more family in the logging industry and I can almost guarantee they have been logging in BC longer. You should stop generalizing and assuming.

Four generations of loggers in Kelowna, and Princeton, if that's generalizing. An arena named after one as well. A rodeo ground named after another. Now I'm beginning to feel like Topper Harris.

Edited November 29, 2018 by johngould21

[johngould21]

4 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Alberta's economy is actually still leading the nation.

 

For the first time in modern memory without oil.

 

Notley has successfully steered Alberta out of a recession caused by low oil prices without an oil rebound by diversifying the economy in very specific places.  This is something that has not happened since Oil was first produced in industrial levels.

 

She will get literally 0 credit for this.  She will get 0 credit for doing everything humanly possible to get her provinces product to market.  She will be replaced by Jason Kenney who has promised to cut royalties, cut corporate taxes and make businesses invest in Alberta again...without any actual plan behind it.

Warhippy, to hear Albertans talk, you'd never know that, as did I. This is why I despise, Kenney, Scheer, Harper, Wilkinson,  and any other Conservative leader. There answer is cut business taxes, and business will thrive. No, they'll line their pockets, and move when things go south.

[Aguila]

50 minutes ago, johngould21 said:

Warhippy, to hear Albertans talk, you'd never know that, as did I. This is why I despise, Kenney, Scheer, Harper, Wilkinson,  and any other Conservative leader. There answer is cut business taxes, and business will thrive. No, they'll line their pockets, and move when things go south.

You and your friends must be doing great financially. Congrats. It has little to do with Alberta and much to do about the country. So many billions sent to foreign lands instead of staying here and helping Canadians. Our stock market has gone nowhere and the Americans are through the roof. We are idiots and get what we deserve.

[Ryan Strome]

8 hours ago, johngould21 said:

Four generations of loggers in Kelowna, and Princeton, if that's generalizing. An arena named after one as well. A rodeo ground named after another. Now I'm beginning to feel like Topper Harris.

Four generations is close. Princeton eh? I likely know your family. What arena are you talking about?

[Ryan Strome]

Alberta's economy did have the most growth last year but our economy had retracted for two years prior to that. Unfortunately many jobs created were lower paying jobs which is unusual for Alberta but at least they're creating jobs.

[Ryan Strome]

8 hours ago, johngould21 said:

Warhippy, to hear Albertans talk, you'd never know that, as did I. This is why I despise, Kenney, Scheer, Harper, Wilkinson,  and any other Conservative leader. There answer is cut business taxes, and business will thrive. No, they'll line their pockets, and move when things go south.

Trudeau has repeatedly said he wants to keep corporate taxes low. JT isn't a conservative.

[Alflives]

16 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Alberta's economy did have the most growth last year but our economy had retracted for two years prior to that. Unfortunately many jobs created were lower paying jobs which is unusual for Alberta but at least they're creating jobs.

Our whole country, and much of the western world, is mostly creating low paying service jobs.  In the lower mainland, if there wasn’t a great housing market, I don’t think we would be creating any decent paying jobs.  

[Tortorella's Rant]

CBC article about how there are literally not enough affordable places to live for everyone wanting one. And the government wants to increase immigration numbers for 2020 and 2021. As stated before, the government doesn't care, left or right, because they all have their homes, and it is often human nature to not really care much if you are affected by something. Whether the property is purchased with illegal funds by a foreign or domestic criminal, they receive their cut all the same, property tax all the same, etc. You, a Canadian, can't find affordable accommodation in this country? Take a ticket and get in line with the millions of other chumps..

[Warhippy]

9 hours ago, Aguila said:

You and your friends must be doing great financially. Congrats. It has little to do with Alberta and much to do about the country. So many billions sent to foreign lands instead of staying here and helping Canadians. Our stock market has gone nowhere and the Americans are through the roof. We are idiots and get what we deserve.

Wait what?

 

I'll take Who doesn't understand basic Econn for $500 Alex

[Warhippy]

1 hour ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

CBC article about how there are literally not enough affordable places to live for everyone wanting one. And the government wants to increase immigration numbers for 2020 and 2021. As stated before, the government doesn't care, left or right, because they all have their homes, and it is often human nature to not really care much if you are affected by something. Whether the property is purchased with illegal funds by a foreign or domestic criminal, they receive their cut all the same, property tax all the same, etc. You, a Canadian, can't find affordable accommodation in this country? Take a ticket and get in line with the millions of other chumps..

You're aware that the numbers of increased immigration is less than 50,000 per year by 2020 right?  I know...a flood and horde of immigrants.  I know that people think omg mexicans, arabs etc are coming.

 

But the numbers are actually predominantly from China, the Philippinnes, India and Europe.  There are major hurdles to cross.  But whatever.  Keep repeating the other stuff

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Trudeau has repeatedly said he wants to keep corporate taxes low. JT isn't a conservative.

Because, Trudeau has literally done nothing different than what the previous government did and simply pushed through what legislation they had proposed.  The irony is that people say it was good then, but bad now.  He is, he was and he will never be any different than the Conservatives but people like to pretend he is.

[johngould21]

10 hours ago, Aguila said:

You and your friends must be doing great financially. Congrats. It has little to do with Alberta and much to do about the country. So many billions sent to foreign lands instead of staying here and helping Canadians. Our stock market has gone nowhere and the Americans are through the roof. We are idiots and get what we deserve.

I have bills to pay each and every month like all of us on this board. We're both retired and have pensions, if that's "doing great financially", then I guess we are. If people wanted jobs, instead of wanting CEO money at each and every job interview, then I'd have a bit of sympathy for them. Stock market??? I don't know about you, but, the stock market has never been so volatile as it has, since the down turn of '08. Helping Canadians? Welfare, social programs, job training, there are things in place, folks have to look for them.

[Tortorella's Rant]

27 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

You're aware that the numbers of increased immigration is less than 50,000 per year by 2020 right?  I know...a flood and horde of immigrants.  I know that people think omg mexicans, arabs etc are coming.

 

But the numbers are actually predominantly from China, the Philippinnes, India and Europe.  There are major hurdles to cross.  But whatever.  Keep repeating the other stuff

I don't give two $&!#s where they are from. They can be the whitest honkies from Scotland for all I care. But this is on top of the couple hundred thousand that is country already struggles to house every single year, not to mention the few million millennials in particular that already live here and are in the market as well. And on top of all that, it is practically legal for foreign criminals to launder money in this country and eat up the real estate market too. We saw that again today with those stayed charges for "unspecified reasons" in BC's biggest money laundering case. The prosecutorial office probably received a very well padded envelope. Even though you may love to play the race card every single time this discussion comes up, that's literally not what this is about.

[JM_]

13 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Quebec will be alright with all the billions they receive. Again if Alberta has the highest earners do they contribute more? You claimed Albertans don't contribute more.

 

Btw you can't say Canadians I don't get any transfer money, nor do you or your family in Saskatchewan.

I don't need it. Nor does BC or AB. Thats the whole point. Now if you don't want Canada to operate as a federation then that changes everything. 

 

Whats annoying about statements like "Albertans do more" is that is takes a dump on every other tax paying Canadian. Not really the best way to gain support don't you think? 

 

Its great for AB that you guys were so fortunate to get a higher concentration of high paying oil jobs, and multinationals willing to invest in the province. But most of that GDP stays within AB as well. 

 

You keep trying to make AB special simply because of the good fortune to have oil, but on an individual level no one there does anything more than anyone else.  If anything we should be thanking the multinationals for their contribution, thats even more than the Albertans you're talking about. 

[JM_]

12 minutes ago, Tortorella's Rant said:

I don't give two $&!#s where they are from. They can be the whitest honkies from Scotland for all I care. But this is on top of the couple hundred thousand that is country already struggles to house every single year, not to mention the few million millennials in particular that already live here and are in the market as well. And on top of all that, it is practically legal for foreign criminals to launder money in this country and eat up the real estate market too. We saw that again today with those stayed charges for "unspecified reasons" in BC's biggest money laundering case. The prosecutorial office probably received a very well padded envelope. Even though you may love to play the race card every single time this discussion comes up, that's literally not what this is about.

what good will it do the country to let the economy shrink? how is that going to help anyone? 

 

we need immigration to sustain our economy. I don't know why you're wrapping that up with crime and accusations of fraud in the government. 

[Ryan Strome]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Because, Trudeau has literally done nothing different than what the previous government did and simply pushed through what legislation they had proposed.  The irony is that people say it was good then, but bad now.  He is, he was and he will never be any different than the Conservatives but people like to pretend he is.

Like the poster I was responding to who only blamed conservatives for low corporate taxes.