Trudeau more unpopular than popular for the first time since election: survey

[Guest]

14 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Nice story 

 

now for the facts...

 

the majority of gas and petroleum products consumed in B.C. comes from Alberta through .... you guessed it, the trans mountain pipeline. The 2 tiny bc refineries feed the remaining supply with us imports covering about 12 percent of BC demand

 

You are delusional to assume the impact of a chevron chevron refinery issue impacts the price at the pump of B.C. gas 

 

horgan wanted to play environmentalist with potential exports flowing through B.C. yet wanted to throw those principals out the window when Alberta threatened to throttle supply. It’s ok to put petroleum products in a pipeline for B.C. to consume put Horgan only draws the line on exports 

 

f ing environmentalist hypocrite 

 

oh and by the way seeing Alberta isn’t officially throttling our to the bc pipeline ....Alberta is simply prioritizing the supply. 

 

Enjoy your gas prices, they are going to go higher by the way 

 

Thank John Horgan 

Do you have any evidence to back this up?

[canuck2288]

38 minutes ago, Jack_T said:

Do you have any evidence to back this up?

Read up 

 

the statistics related to BC provincial supply and imports are publicly available from a variety of sources. When you learn the math you will see what small percentage of B.C. consumption comes from chevron Burnaby

 

basic supply and demand theory will tell you that that fraction of supply alone can’t impact prices to the extent they have moved 

 

but you just believe you are being gauged locally. Keep believing that

 

 

[canuck2288]

For those of you that are curious head over to the NEB website and learn that the refining capacity in B.C. (Burnaby and PG) is 75 thousand barrels per day....a whole 1.7% of Canadian production. Does bc have 1.7 of the Canadian demand?  .... translation imports  

 

the existing trans mountain pipeline has an EXISTING capacity of 300 thousand barrels a day that heads west .... the proposal to take it to 800 thousand barrels per day is being fought by your bonehead premier. You don’t think that at that level of capacity your pump price will decline? Oh and you don’t honestly think your lowly 75 thousand barrels a day production is impacting bc gas prices do you? 

 

So if an alberta refinery requires feedstock to cover shortfall  from another Alberta refinery in the midst of a shutdown, do think the motivation to feed the tmx pipeline is high? Nope 

 

is that illegal? Nope, just prioritizing supply 

 

 

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, canuck2288 said:

Read up 

 

the statistics related to BC provincial supply and imports are publicly available from a variety of sources. When you learn the math you will see what small percentage of B.C. consumption comes from chevron Burnaby

 

basic supply and demand theory will tell you that that fraction of supply alone can’t impact prices to the extent they have moved 

 

but you just believe you are being gauged locally. Keep believing that

 

 

We also import from Washington and even if the pipeline were, like magic, built tomorrow, something has to pay for it. Lastly, gas prices reached over $1.50/l back in 2014, before the NDP took control.

 

My point is, blaming this on Horgan seems like a stretch. 

 

Edit: I have read up, that’s why I was asking for your evidence.

Edited May 19, 2019 by Guest

[canuck2288]

On 5/18/2019 at 11:53 PM, Jack_T said:

We also import from Washington and even if the pipeline were, like magic, built tomorrow, something has to pay for it. Lastly, gas prices reached over $1.50/l back in 2014, before the NDP took control.

 

My point is, blaming this on Horgan seems like a stretch. 

 

 

12 percent of bc consumption comes from the US, while that is a factor it’s a drop in the barrel compared to what Alberta provides .... which is 97 percent of Canadian production 

 

Alberta pays a 5 times higher rate per capital in transfer payments that any other province  in this country and your moron premier thanks us by standing in the way of the pipeline. Not only costing bc direct jobs but hurting the entire country’s economy. How many hospitals and schools across this country have been made with Alberta transfer tax funds? 

 

oh also thank Horgan for the bc carbon tax as well. Was that there in 2014? 

Edited July 3, 2019 by canuck2288

[Guest]

Just now, canuck2288 said:

12 percent of bc consumption comes from the US, while that is a factor it’s a drop in the barrel compared to what Alberta provides .... which is 97 percent of Canadian production 

 

Alberta pays a 5 times higher rate per capital in transfer payments that any other process nor in thus country and your moron premier thanks ya by standing in the way of the pipeline. Not only costing bc direct jobs but hurting the entire countries economy. How many hospitals and schools across this country have been made with Alberta transfer tax funds? 

 

oh also thank Horgan for the bc carbon tax as well. Was that there in 2014? 

Sorry, but so far you haven’t presented anything that shows Horgan is directly responsible for the rise in gas prices.

 

Alberta does not provide B.C. with 97 per cent. Also, I don’t see how transfer payments have anything to do with this discussion. It reads to me like you just don’t like the guy...Obviously that’s your right.

 

In terms of being responsible for the increase in gas prices? I’m not convinced. Prices would have increased regardless of who is premier and we’ll continue to be gouged - just like we were in 2014. 

[Gnarcore]

3 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

Nice story 

 

now for the facts...

 

the majority of gas and petroleum products consumed in B.C. comes from Alberta through .... you guessed it, the trans mountain pipeline. The 2 tiny bc refineries feed the remaining supply with us imports covering about 12 percent of BC demand

 

You are delusional to assume the impact of a chevron chevron refinery issue impacts the price at the pump of B.C. gas 

 

horgan wanted to play environmentalist with potential exports flowing through B.C. yet wanted to throw those principals out the window when Alberta threatened to throttle supply. It’s ok to put petroleum products in a pipeline for B.C. to consume put Horgan only draws the line on exports 

 

f ing environmentalist hypocrite 

 

oh and by the way seeing Alberta isn’t officially throttling our to the bc pipeline ....Alberta is simply prioritizing the supply. 

 

Enjoy your gas prices, they are going to go higher by the way 

 

Thank John Horgan 

The expansion wasn't for us though now was it?  I ride a motorbike 6 months a year and live 3km from work. Gas prices barely impact me personally. Were you calling me a hypocrite or Horgan? 

[canuck2288]

4 hours ago, Gnarcore said:

The expansion wasn't for us though now was it?  I ride a motorbike 6 months a year and live 3km from work. Gas prices barely impact me personally. Were you calling me a hypocrite or Horgan? 

Horgan my friend 

 

you think Alberta would prefer to export vs have domestic consumption? The whole concept of the Canada east pipeline was to get petroleum production to eastern Canada instead of having Canada import from known polluter and corrupt nations. If we increase western shipments it’s not just for exports, it’s to meet bc demand 

 

 

[canuck2288]

6 hours ago, Jack_T said:

Sorry, but so far you haven’t presented anything that shows Horgan is directly responsible for the rise in gas prices.

 

Alberta does not provide B.C. with 97 per cent. Also, I don’t see how transfer payments have anything to do with this discussion. It reads to me like you just don’t like the guy...Obviously that’s your right.

 

In terms of being responsible for the increase in gas prices? I’m not convinced. Prices would have increased regardless of who is premier and we’ll continue to be gouged - just like we were in 2014. 

I said Alberta supplies 97 for recent of Canadian production not bc. I told you they provide the majority of bc consumption with Burnaby, PG and the us providing the rest 

 

how much sense is it to take petroleum dollars out of Canada. Washington state is not a charity. You don’t think they will gauge you in your time of need. We Canadians can’t get organized. We have the domestic participation and instead the west imports and the east imports. Why? 

 

Bc did not even vote horgan in as a majority. He is an “environmentalist” because it’s how he stays politically alive. 

 

The protesters you have are backed by American special interest groups that want Alberta oil in a captive market. If we find other trading partners their price from Canada goes up and guess what? More jobs and more transfer payments. 

 

Educate yourself on transfer payments. It’s important. The royalty funds and federal transfer payments Alberta makes are directly associated with oil production. Quebec has been a net taker of transfer payments for years yet they won’t allow a pipleline to flow east. So yes transfer payments. If Alberta makes less transfer payments that differential has to be made up so guess where that is going to come from? You 

 

 

[Guest]

1 hour ago, canuck2288 said:

I said Alberta supplies 97 for recent of Canadian production not bc. I told you they provide the majority of bc consumption with Burnaby, PG and the us providing the rest 

 

how much sense is it to take petroleum dollars out of Canada. Washington state is not a charity. You don’t think they will gauge you in your time of need. We Canadians can’t get organized. We have the domestic participation and instead the west imports and the east imports. Why? 

 

Bc did not even vote horgan in as a majority. He is an “environmentalist” because it’s how he stays politically alive. 

 

The protesters you have are backed by American special interest groups that want Alberta oil in a captive market. If we find other trading partners their price from Canada goes up and guess what? More jobs and more transfer payments. 

 

Educate yourself on transfer payments. It’s important. The royalty funds and federal transfer payments Alberta makes are directly associated with oil production. Quebec has been a net taker of transfer payments for years yet they won’t allow a pipleline to flow east. So yes transfer payments. If Alberta makes less transfer payments that differential has to be made up so guess where that is going to come from? You 

 

 

Again, none of this explains how Horgan is to blame for the crazy gas prices.

[JM_]

16 hours ago, The Lock said:

One thing I will say is if you try and represent based on population, the 50/50 gender representation is kind of similar to the representation by population.

 

This is why, while it sounds great on paper, representation by population is more of a headache than it is useful when it comes to running an effective government. It sucks, but it's just kind of how it is.

we're never going to have a perfect system, thats for sure. 

 

But our government makes concessions for population already, e.g., SK has something like 55,000 people per riding, while BC has 77,000 AB 80,000, so you can argue SK is over represented compared to BC and AB. Why is that fair? 

 

We have 338 seats in gov't. All Trudeau's cabinet does is take less than 10% of those for cabinet positions, and make sure that 1/2 of those have the perspective of 1/2 our population. We're talking about maybe 15/338 positions. Dunno... that doesn't seem unreasonable to me or the end of merit given the other ways we make concessions for representation. 

 

 

 

 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Jimmy McGill

[Gnarcore]

2 hours ago, canuck2288 said:

Horgan my friend 

 

you think Alberta would prefer to export vs have domestic consumption? The whole concept of the Canada east pipeline was to get petroleum production to eastern Canada instead of having Canada import from known polluter and corrupt nations. If we increase western shipments it’s not just for exports, it’s to meet bc demand 

 

 

We weren't discussing Energy East..which I support btw...we were discussing the TM expansion. The expansion is not for BC but for foreign markets. We don't have the refinery capacity for it to make any difference from what I have read. That should have been sorted decades ago. 

 

I'd be on board the TM expansion if we got more out of it and there was a concrete clean up plan in place. But seeing as Alberta are being a bunch of asses...they can &^@# right off. 

Edited May 19, 2019 by Gnarcore

[Ryan Strome]

10 hours ago, Jack_T said:

Again, none of this explains how Horgan is to blame for the crazy gas prices.

If you actually understand this industry and think the bc ndp isn't to blame you're delusional. BC has a never ending fuel shortage and has to be the highest bidder to buy it from the US. BC needs more fefined product shipped to them... Hmmm expand a pipeline??

 

Anyway I don't blame BC'ers because a majority in BC support tmx I also don't blame BC'ers for the ndp as a majority didn't support them infact they lost the 2017 election.

[Guest]

21 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

If you actually understand this industry and think the bc ndp isn't to blame you're delusional. BC has a never ending fuel shortage and has to be the highest bidder to buy it from the US. BC needs more fefined product shipped to them... Hmmm expand a pipeline??

 

Anyway I don't blame BC'ers because a majority in BC support tmx I also don't blame BC'ers for the ndp as a majority didn't support them infact they lost the 2017 election.

You probably won’t believe me, but I do have some understanding of the industry. 

 

Suggesting the TMEP will automatically lower gas prices is not for certain. From the NEB Chief Economist: 

 

“If the extension is approved and built … this will increase capacity and directionally will allow more gasoline to flow from Alberta to B.C., thereby increasing supply and putting downward pressure on prices," he said.

But at the same time, "it will provide Canadian producers greater access to international markets, thereby putting upward pressure on prices of crude oil. How those two forces will net out remains to be seen."

 

Moreover, Horgan is not the only person opposing the TMEP. Suggesting he is somehow the only one standing in the way of this project is ridiculous. A newly elected premier does not have the political capital to unilaterally cancel a multi-billion dollar project unless it has wide ranging support. 

 

To recap. Blaming Horgan on the high gas prices is wrong and no one has yet to present a convincing argument that suggests otherwise. 

 

 

Edited May 20, 2019 by Guest

[Ryan Strome]

11 minutes ago, Jack_T said:

You probably won’t believe me, but I do have some understanding of the industry. 

 

Suggesting the TMEP will automatically lower gas prices is not for certain. From the NEB Chief Economist: 

 

“If the extension is approved and built … this will increase capacity and directionally will allow more gasoline to flow from Alberta to B.C., thereby increasing supply and putting downward pressure on prices," he said.

But at the same time, "it will provide Canadian producers greater access to international markets, thereby putting upward pressure on prices of crude oil. How those two forces will net out remains to be seen."

 

Moreover, Horgan is not the only person opposing the TMEP. Suggesting he is somehow the only one standing in the way of this project is ridiculous. A newly elected premier does not have the political capital to unilaterally cancel a multi-billion dollar project unless it has wide ranging support. 

 

To recap. Blaming Horgan on the high gas prices is wrong and no one has yet to present a convincing argument that suggests otherwise. 

 

 

I'm not totally blaming him but he is playing a significant role no doubt. What flows down that line can be up for debate/ conversation between the government's. Horgan should call an election and get a majority so Weaver isn't calling the shots.

[canuck2288]

22 hours ago, Gnarcore said:

We weren't discussing Energy East..which I support btw...we were discussing the TM expansion. The expansion is not for BC but for foreign markets. We don't have the refinery capacity for it to make any difference from what I have read. That should have been sorted decades ago. 

 

I'd be on board the TM expansion if we got more out of it and there was a concrete clean up plan in place. But seeing as Alberta are being a bunch of asses...they can &^@# right off. 

You do not understand how an export strategy works.

 

BC right now has a demand higher than its supply...which includes products shipped through the trans mountain pipeline. Any increase in capacity with the trans mountain pipleline, assuming that goes up to 800 thousand barrels per day from 300 thousand barrels per day would feed B.C. needs first. There would obviously be an excess and that excess would be shipped to foreign markets. You think oil companies would not want to sell local in Canada at versus paying shipping to export? 

 

By selling meeting Canada demands we keep the money in our country and we force the states to pay us a higher price as we have other markets. 

 

Calling fellow Canadians asses is pretty immature. Those “asses” have put trillions into the Canadian economy. You are delusional if you think that money stayed with Alberta’s borders. 

[Alflives]

1 hour ago, canuck2288 said:

You do not understand how an export strategy works.

 

BC right now has a demand higher than its supply...which includes products shipped through the trans mountain pipeline. Any increase in capacity with the trans mountain pipleline, assuming that goes up to 800 thousand barrels per day from 300 thousand barrels per day would feed B.C. needs first. There would obviously be an excess and that excess would be shipped to foreign markets. You think oil companies would not want to sell local in Canada at versus paying shipping to export? 

 

By selling meeting Canada demands we keep the money in our country and we force the states to pay us a higher price as we have other markets. 

 

Calling fellow Canadians asses is pretty immature. Those “asses” have put trillions into the Canadian economy. You are delusional if you think that money stayed with Alberta’s borders. 

I think Oil companies own shipping lines, and would 100% prefer to sell our oil off shore, while shipping oil to us.  These costs of shipping oil around the globe make insane profits.  The wealthy elite who own these companies are not like you and me.  These are selfish, make money, and screw everyone and everything else people.  Okay, they’re not like you.  

[Miler]

On 5/19/2019 at 9:14 AM, Gnarcore said:

We weren't discussing Energy East..which I support btw...we were discussing the TM expansion. The expansion is not for BC but for foreign markets. We don't have the refinery capacity for it to make any difference from what I have read. That should have been sorted decades ago. 

 

I'd be on board the TM expansion if we got more out of it and there was a concrete clean up plan in place. But seeing as Alberta are being a bunch of asses...they can &^@# right off. 

When you and your fans start coughing up five grand apiece every year  in order to  "keep the country together" you'll have earned the right to call Albertan's asses. Until then you can shut  #$%   $%^&   %$.

[canuck2288]

On 5/20/2019 at 9:11 AM, Alflives said:

I think Oil companies own shipping lines, and would 100% prefer to sell our oil off shore, while shipping oil to us.  These costs of shipping oil around the globe make insane profits.  The wealthy elite who own these companies are not like you and me.  These are selfish, make money, and screw everyone and everything else people.  Okay, they’re not like you.  

Local prices will always beat an export market typically The costs of moving product are not insignificant 

[Rob_Zepp]

On 5/23/2019 at 5:41 PM, canuck2288 said:

Local prices will always beat an export market typically The costs of moving product are not insignificant 

You added a lot of logic to an otherwise emotive thread largely void of such (logic that is).