Rating our trades

[smithers joe]

i think it is too early to judge schaller and roussel. 

everyone complained that we were too soft and were getting pushed around last season. 

jim agreed, he wanted guys who could skate and be players as well as adding grit and push back. 

because other teams, wanted these guys too, he had to pay more. 

as the season goes on, it will be measured by, if other teams, find us tougher to play against. 

lets just enjoy the effort the boys give us. there is plenty of time later to judge these moves. 

these three guys only cost us money, which means they can still be traded for picks or players, down the road. i still think it is a win/win situation. 

just my 2 cents.

[mikeyman109]

20 hours ago, alfstonker said:

I had no complaint with Beagle. I didn't even put him in the list. Maybe you can show me where I had.

if thats what you picked out of all of that theres really no point in discussing this further...lol

[alfstonker]

5 hours ago, mikeyman109 said:

if thats what you picked out of all of that theres really no point in discussing this further...lol

I thought the same about your post mikey, I mean we can see most of them are fails already.

['NucK™]

12 hours ago, alfstonker said:

You/he have/has shown me nothing. Just because JB gets it right a couple of times does not negate my point. Hell even I would fancy these odds. 

By the way he didn't counter my opinion at all - he stated his opinion, which is not the same thing.

When his opinion is the exact opposite of yours, it kinda is the same thing.. 

[MoneypuckOverlord]

On 2018-10-18 at 7:00 AM, martybyrd said:

Everyone points to Baertschi as this shining trading moment for Elmer ...

 

Does anyone believe we could get a high 2nd round pick for him today ?

Word has it that we tried to move him at last yrs deadline and this off season, and nothing close to that was offered.

 

Not only was this not a "great" trade as so many of you point to....IMO , we lost this trade.

 

And this is one of his BEST trades ???

It's certainly not as bad as most...but Cmon ??

 

 

Do you believe Calgary can also get a high 2nd rounder for Anderson ? Cmon Sven has been pretty decent for us as a 2nd line winger.

[oldnews]

On 10/30/2018 at 4:12 AM, alfstonker said:

 

As for the relevant part of your reply I am in no mood to accept any mention of zone starts from you after your reaction to Gaunce's 15% ozone starts.

Not surprised by this ironic response - first of all, no one has pointed out the strength of Gaunce's underlying numbers as frequently on these boards as I have - you've clearly whiffed on the point (but like I said, no player earns roster spots on the strength of their previous season's 'possession numbers - they have to come in an re-earn their spot regardless, particularly among stiffer competition for those bottom six spots) -  but honestly couldn't care less what you're in the mood to accept lol.

[oldnews]

13 hours ago, MoneypuckOverlord said:

Do you believe Calgary can also get a high 2nd rounder for Anderson ? Cmon Sven has been pretty decent for us as a 2nd line winger.

Not disagreeing with the question of whether Sven has been worth a late 2nd - imo a relative no-brainer and no loss of value whatsover there.

 

But in fairness to Calgary, I think a lot of teams would part with a high 2nd for him - assuming you're talking about Rasmus Andersson.

 

They made pretty good value of that late 2nd they accepted for Baertschi.   Dealing Baertschi for the mean value of a 53rd overall pick is not good value - but they recovered imo by making a solid pick and upticking the value of that.

 

Andersson looks like an NHL D - big enough frame to handle himself well, good puck mover, heavy shot. reliable defensively - and the rarer of assets - being a RHD.   41 pts in 56g as a 21 yr old AHL D = high 2nd round pick value imo.

[Baggins]

On 10/21/2018 at 10:37 PM, Tomatoes11 said:

Exactly, the Benning homers are delusional. Most of his trades are terrible and almost all made us older, not sure why since we are rebuilding or should be.

 

ALL of our trades should have involved moving vets for picks and getting younger. The only ones out of all of his trades that followed this were a grand total of 4.

 

garrison for a low second (how Baertschi got a high 2nd is beyond me.) Only Benning can manage that I guess.

 

kesler trade

 

hansen for Goldie

 

Burrows for Dahlen.

 

only 4 trades out of around 20 where we got younger. The rest we gave up high picks. Or got older lol

Garrison to a 2nd - to Vey. You ask me Vey is younger than Garrison so we got younger in the sequence.

 

Even trading a pick for a prospect is "getting younger" it just cuts down the waiting time to see if the prospect turns out. Trading a pick for Baertschi made the team younger. We just didn't have to wait 3 or 4 years for that result.

 

Btw, I don't consider anything but 1st rounders 'high' picks. The odds of getting even a decent NHL regular drops drastically from the 2nd round on. This certainly doesn't mean trading away all your picks is the way to go, but picks are still simply prospects in the end. So a pick that's a gamble for a good AHL prospect isn't a terrible option for a team sorely lacking in NHL ready prospects. You just have more information on an AHL prospect (playing against men) than a junior prospect. Less chance of hitting a home run, greater chance of an NHL regular. But no matter how you look at it those 'acquired' prospects made the team younger than it was.

[Baggins]

On 10/28/2018 at 3:56 AM, alfstonker said:

I have to say, I am not impressed by Schaller and Roussel. Ok Roussel may not be recovered yet from his injury but I don't like what I'm seeing.

 

Way back last season after a few games while most on here were raving about Pouliot and MDZ, I said I thought they were poor and not the answer. Later having seen Leipsic (who again had a lot of posters on here starstruck) and Motte, I said Leipsic was just a flashy player, who hogged the puck but at least Motte put himself about.

 

Now I am beginning to think JB has struck fools gold again with Schaller and Roussel.

 

I recall seeing Sautner last season play a very physical controlled game and before his injury we had McEneny looking reasonable. It's time to trust our young players and ditch these "flatter to deceive" cast offs from other teams.

 

I have backed JB for a long time now but I am beginning to see him building up quite a bundle of duds. Eriksson, Gagner, MDZ, Pouliot, Leipsic, Schaller Roussel. Add Clendening, Prust, Burmistrov, Cramarossa, Dowd, Boucher, Larsen, Molino, Shore, Bartkowski, Cracknell, Etem, Pedan.

 

I am now unable to trust his judgement when it comes to trades/signings.

Was Clendening actually a bad move? I honestly see him as a win. Forsling is still a tweener just as Clendening is. So was Forsling really a loss? But Clendening was part of the deal to acquire Sutter. Sutter is a win.

 

Prust was just to add some toughness and be rid of a problem at the same time. He was never intended to be a long term solution to anything. I had no problem with that deal at all. Really most of those deals were minor insignificant deals. Guys like Cracknell, Larsen, Boucher, Bartkowski, Burmi cost us nothing. Just warm bodies to give a shot to.

 

I do have to ask though, when it come to signing free agents how do you avoid duds? Really all you have to go on is their recent history. The majority have been short term stop gaps and a few short term gambles. None a huge problem for a rebuilding team. I mean we do have to put somebody on the ice and have something available to call up for injuries and still have some to actually play for the farm team as well. It's not exactly uncommon for rebuilding teams to go through a rash of interim players as part of the process.

[alfstonker]

58 minutes ago, Baggins said:

Was Clendening actually a bad move? I honestly see him as a win. Forsling is still a tweener just as Clendening is. So was Forsling really a loss? But Clendening was part of the deal to acquire Sutter. Sutter is a win.

 

Prust was just to add some toughness and be rid of a problem at the same time. He was never intended to be a long term solution to anything. I had no problem with that deal at all. Really most of those deals were minor insignificant deals. Guys like Cracknell, Larsen, Boucher, Bartkowski, Burmi cost us nothing. Just warm bodies to give a shot to.

 

I do have to ask though, when it come to signing free agents how do you avoid duds? Really all you have to go on is their recent history. The majority have been short term stop gaps and a few short term gambles. None a huge problem for a rebuilding team. I mean we do have to put somebody on the ice and have something available to call up for injuries and still have some to actually play for the farm team as well. It's not exactly uncommon for rebuilding teams to go through a rash of interim players as part of the process.

I was talking about their performances.

It doesn't matter what they cost us, I am actually referring to JB's ability to spot good players who are not draft picks. I will give JB one thing, he uses a pragmatic scattergun approach which I suppose he hopes will net a live one every now and then amongst the duds.

Gillis seemed to be unwilling to cast the net at all but arguably, at least in the beginning, seemed to have an eye for players who could do a job. Gillis though unlike JB did not seem to do well in the draft.

Players who have come to the club under JB who impressed would be Miller, Dorsett, Baertschi, Granlund, Sbisa, Vrbata, Vey, Sutter, Goldobin Stecher Jokinen and Vanek.

[Baggins]

34 minutes ago, alfstonker said:

I was talking about their performances.

It doesn't matter what they cost us, I am actually referring to JB's ability to spot good players who are not draft picks. I will give JB one thing, he uses a pragmatic scattergun approach which I suppose he hopes will net a live one every now and then amongst the duds.

Gillis seemed to be unwilling to cast the net at all but arguably, at least in the beginning, seemed to have an eye for players who could do a job. Gillis though unlike JB did not seem to do well in the draft.

Players who have come to the club under JB who impressed would be Miller, Dorsett, Baertschi, Granlund, Sbisa, Vrbata, Vey, Sutter, Goldobin Stecher Jokinen and Vanek.

Honestly, you get what you pay for. Many of the guys you mentioned cost peanuts. basically taking a flyer on them. You can complain Gagner and Eriksson haven't lived up to the performance that got them their deals, but others were just low cost short term show me deals. As I said, not uncommon for rebuilding teams to fill holes with that type of ufa.

 

Gillis didn't need to rebuild the entire team. Key players were already in place when he took over. But even he traded for Bernier and Pyatt on hopes they would become something with the Sedins. Or how about guys like Isbister, Wellwood, Krajecek, Schneider, and Weaver. He did show me deals as well.