Outsiders Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 7 hours ago, DeNiro said: How does Myers not upgrade our defense? Our defense was horrible last year. We're forcing guys like Stecher and Pouliot into the top 4 when they're not top 4 defensemen. Myers would be a top 4 on most teams. He brings something this team desperately needs which is size on the back end and the ability to move the puck. If we go into next season with relatively the same D, I expect another top 10 pick, meaning our 2021 pick is going straight to Tampa. Stecher not a top 4 d-man? Bro c'mon 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 9 minutes ago, LarsEller said: There also is not much else to spend the salary space on anyways that we need. We aren't getting Panarin and we already have more wingers than we need. There are no better Dmen available for free. Any trades for anyone better are going to cost a first, and a top prospect bare minimum. I'm getting this feeling that some of you think that 19/20 will be the last season in NHL history. Did I miss some sort of announcement? If we can upgrade our D this year without paying a premium, great. If not, there's next year, and the year after. We're nowhere close to competing, it's not urgent. It's definitely not worth another awful, awful free agent contract. Go back and read the threads about Eriksson when we first signed him. It's exactly the same crap. "We have lots of cap space and he makes us better. We have a large hole in X spot and he fills it. If we need to trade him down the road, we can." We have exhibit A for "not overpaying free agents" in Eriksson and exhibit A for "not chasing tools-with-no-toolbox D-men" in Gudbranson. These mistakes are way, way too recent for us to forget them and repeat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: I'm getting this feeling that some of you think that 19/20 will be the last season in NHL history. Did I miss some sort of announcement? If we can upgrade our D this year without paying a premium, great. If not, there's next year, and the year after. We're nowhere close to competing, it's not urgent. It's definitely not worth another awful, awful free agent contract. Go back and read the threads about Eriksson when we first signed him. It's exactly the same crap. "We have lots of cap space and he makes us better. We have a large hole in X spot and he fills it. If we need to trade him down the road, we can." We have exhibit A for "not overpaying free agents" in Eriksson and exhibit A for "not chasing tools-with-no-toolbox D-men" in Gudbranson. These mistakes are way, way too recent for us to forget them and repeat them. Myers has been a solid top 4 dman for several years. You might as well stop commenting on the thread because evidently your issue here is that you don't like his game. Like you could just save everyome the time by saying I think Myers is over rated. The team is adding a dman this summer regardless of anything you post here. So please enlighten us all by making an actual suggestion as to who we would get now that is better. On top of that name one deal we potentially missed out on by signing LE. We have had ton of cap space in spite of it and with or without his contract its had 0 effect on the outcome of any year he has been here. Terrible example to complain about bad contacts. Edited June 24, 2019 by LarsEller 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, LarsEller said: Myers has been a solid top 4 dman for several years. You might as well stop commenting on the thread because evidently your issue here is that you don't like his game. Like you could just save everyome the time by saying I think Myers is over rated. Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll continue to comment as I please. I pay the membership fee, same as you. 5 minutes ago, LarsEller said: The team is adding a dman this summer regardless of anything you post here. So please enlighten us all by making an actual suggestion as to who we would get now that is better. As I'm not a part of the NHL I don't have any inside scoops as to who or what is available (outside of Perry, of course). However, that doesn't change my argument of no Myers is better than overpaying Myers. 5 minutes ago, LarsEller said: On top of that name one deal we potentially missed out on by signing LE. We have had ton of cap space in spite of it and with or without his contract its had 0 effect on the outcome of any year he has been here. Terrible example to complain about bad contacts. Well for one, it was widely reported that we didn't trade Hamhuis to Chicago for Teravainen because we were unwilling to take on Bickell's contract. And, just recently, we weren't in on Marleau's buyout or the Subban trade. It would be naive to think that there weren't many other instances that weren't reported over the past 5 years. This management team has shown that they are completely unwilling to (or unable to due to poor planning) weaponize cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 6 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Thanks for the suggestion, but I'll continue to comment as I please. I pay the membership fee, same as you. As I'm not a part of the NHL I don't have any inside scoops as to who or what is available (outside of Perry, of course). However, that doesn't change my argument of no Myers is better than overpaying Myers. Well for one, it was widely reported that we didn't trade Hamhuis to Chicago for Teravainen because we were unwilling to take on Bickell's contract. And, just recently, we weren't in on Marleau's buyout or the Subban trade. It would be naive to think that there weren't many other instances that weren't reported over the past 5 years. This management team has shown that they are completely unwilling to (or unable to due to poor planning) weaponize cap space. I suggest you prepare yourself for some dissapointment then because Benning and ownership are 100% signing a Dman this summer. Also none if these points you made have anything to do with deals we missed out on by being handcuffed by LE cap hit. Edited June 24, 2019 by LarsEller Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 22 minutes ago, Outsiders said: Stecher not a top 4 d-man? Bro c'mon He isn't. He is a good 3rd pairing. Pretty obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kanukfanatic Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 18 minutes ago, LarsEller said: Myers has been a solid top 4 dman for several years. Myers is a 3rd pairing D in Wpg. He is behind Buff and Trouba and has been for some time. Wpg fans rag on him constantly. Could he be an ok 2nd pairing guy? Maybe. I don't see that other posters stuff you are debating with because he does not post like a normal person....but Myers is a #4/5. That is why I am afraid of what we pay him....because we probably will get him. Edited June 24, 2019 by Kanukfanatic Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vinny in Vancouver Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Well for one, it was widely reported that we didn't trade Hamhuis to Chicago for Teravainen because we were unwilling to take on Bickell's contract. And, just recently, we weren't in on Marleau's buyout or the Subban trade. It would be naive to think that there weren't many other instances that weren't reported over the past 5 years. This management team has shown that they are completely unwilling to (or unable to due to poor planning) weaponize cap space. Apparently, according to the Athletic, both the Canucks and Leafs were in on the Subban trade, but unfortunately both of them wanted the Preds to take on salary whereas New Jersey was willing to pay for all of it. For the Preds, the full cap space was valued like a first-round pick - here's what their GM had to say: "People have to understand that $9 million in cap space could be worth a first-round pick. For us it was worth two second-round picks and two prospects." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 2 minutes ago, LarsEller said: I suggest you prepare yourself for some dissapointment then because Benning and ownership are 100% signing a Dman this summer. Trust me, under this management team, I'm used to it. 2 minutes ago, LarsEller said: Also none if these points you made have anything to do with deals we missed out on by being handcuffed by LE cap hit. Uh... not sure what other kind of evidence I can support. Deals that involve eating cap space were not made because of bad contracts we've signed, namely Eriksson's. Can't get much clearer. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 minutes ago, Kanukfanatic said: Myers is a 3rd pairing D in Wpg. He is behind Buff and Trouba and has been for some time. Wpg fans rag on him constantly. Could he be an ok 2nd pairing guy? Maybe. I don't see that other posters stuff you are debating with because he does not post like a normal person....but Myers is a #4/5. That is why I am afraid of what we pay him....because we probably will get him. Thats fair but the Jets have had easily a top 10 dcore singe they got myers and he was playing top 4 min in Buffalo before that. Even if he's really just a 4 he's still an upgrade on the right side over anyone we already have. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 44 minutes ago, LarsEller said: I mean your opinion is that he isn't good enough, in my opinion he immidiately becomes our best RD. Spending 6ish on a top 4 dman is pretty standard across the league. If he is passed by the pieces coming up in 2 years there are no shortage of teams looking for a top 4 dman and its easy money to get off the books. Plus those pieces are on elc's and wont be due for more salary right away, and on top of that edler's contract is off in 2 years. All around the canucks can easily take this contract on without any real negative blow back. There also is not much else to spend the salary space on anyways that we need. We aren't getting Panarin and we already have more wingers than we need. There are no better Dmen available for free. Any trades for anyone better are going to cost a first, and a top prospect bare minimum. You could say by spending the cap space you are essentially saving yourself the first or prospect you would get back on a cap dump anyways. Weaponize that cap space by signing a Free Agent and keeping your own picks and prospects. Context. Its your friend. Right handed Dmen with size that can move the puck are one of the more sought after players. So even if Myers signed here and didnt live up to what they need, he would be movable. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 4 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Trust me, under this management team, I'm used to it. Uh... not sure what other kind of evidence I can support. Deals that involve eating cap space were not made because of bad contracts we've signed, namely Eriksson's. Can't get much clearer. Thats 100% speculating. We have had enough cap space to have been in on any of those chose and either chose not to be or weren't offered it. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, LarsEller said: If the canucks are confident that they are going to shed LE though you can essentially get Myers for close to the same money and have almost identical cap space. I actually saw Miller as the LE replacement -- the top-6 guy LE was supposed to have been. Depending on the resolution, it should be a near break-even cap-wise. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 (edited) 3 minutes ago, LarsEller said: Thats 100% speculating. We have had enough cap space to have been in on any of those chose and either chose not to be or weren't offered it. Okay, if you're going to use "head in the sand" as a rebuttal to everything we can stop here lol. Edited June 24, 2019 by kanucks25 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Hutton Wink said: I actually saw Miller as the LE replacement -- the top-6 guy LE was supposed to have been. Depending on the resolution, it should be a near break-even cap-wise. Exactly. None of these moves and potential moves exist in a vacuum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 hour ago, kanucks25 said: If there's none available right now for the proper price so be it. When did we become a team that needed to add pieces to make a playoff run? Desperation will lead to regret. We're still looking for core pieces to base on rebuild around. Those usually don't come from free agency I understand our D is a tire-fire. Throwing out stupid UFA contracts won't fix that. Signing Myers is only desperation if you come at it from the angle that you are, which seems to be more a personal bias than an objective analysis of if and how he could fit on our current defense. I want the Canucks to want to be a playoff team. Its not desperation, its logical progression based on the last several years. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gaudette Celly Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 8 minutes ago, LarsEller said: Thats 100% speculating. We have had enough cap space to have been in on any of those chose and either chose not to be or weren't offered it. 5 minutes ago, kanucks25 said: Okay, if you're going to use "head in the sand" as a rebuttal to everything we can stop here lol. Speculating would be more like "head in the clouds". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kanucks25 Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, Silver Ghost said: Signing Myers is only desperation if you come at it from the angle that you are, which seems to be more a personal bias than an objective analysis of if and how he could fit on our current defense. I want the Canucks to want to be a playoff team. Its not desperation, its logical progression based on the last several years. So, because I disagree with you, I have personal bias but you're objective. Got it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BeefcakeBo Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 1 minute ago, kanucks25 said: Okay, if you're going to use "head in the sand" as a rebuttal to everything we can stop here lol. Thats a pretty weak out. There have been no players we have missed out on because we were against the cap and no indication that that the team has interest in taking on cap for prospects. In fact given that we traded our first its basically the opposite. Benning has indicated he is going for the playoffs in the next 2 years for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silver Ghost Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 Just now, kanucks25 said: So, because I disagree with you, I have personal bias but you're objective. Got it. No. The fact that you cannot see any positives in the player at all vs our current defense situation is why. Hating a bad contract is presented differently than just hating a player. You clearly hate the player. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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