Warhippy Posted November 14, 2019 Share Posted November 14, 2019 3 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said: well, if having the highest average salaries in the country is giving in I'd say giving in has served you pretty well. how dare they though 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) How Alberta pays Quebec’s bills: Four charts that show Alberta picks up the tab In just 11 years, Albertans have paid out almost $240 billion to the rest of Canada. That number is more than one-and-a-half times as much as B.C. and Ontario combined, whose taxpayers pitched in $54.6 billion and $97.9 billion respectively, the other two largest net contributors to the federal balance sheet. The money is sent to Ottawa as part of net federal fiscal transfers — basically the residents of Alberta, British Columbia and Ontario pay more in federal taxes than they get back in federal programs and transfers — they are net positive contributors to the federal finances. And in Alberta’s case it has been doing that for a lot of years. Other provinces are net negative contributors — they get more back in federal programs and transfers than they give in taxes. In Quebec’s case its net negative contributor was minus $171.3 billion from 2007-2018. The numbers from Statistics Canada show that Alberta’s $240 billion comes to about $5,000 a year — for 11 years — for Alberta’s taxpayers. Below is the full set of Statistics Canada data. POSITIVE CONTRIBUTORS Alberta Net federal fiscal transfer $22.2 billion – 2007 $22.5 billion – 2008 $17.7 billion – 2009$16.6 billion – 2010 $17.9 billion – 2011 $19.2 billion – 2012 $23.5 billion – 2013 $27.1 billion – 2014 $24.8 billion – 2015 $16.0 billion – 2016 $15.3 billion – 2017 $17.2 billion – 2018 Total: $239.847 billion Equalization received None British Columbia Net federal fiscal transfer $6.6 billion – 2007 $4.4 billion – 2008 $935 million – 2009 -$1.8 billion – 2010 $1.4 billion – 2011 $3.2 billion – 2012 $3.2 billion – 2013 $4.7 billion – 2014 $6.1 billion – 2015 $7.2 billion – 2016 $8.5 billion – 2017 $10.2 billion – 2018 Total: $54.7 billion Equalization received $116 million – 2007 $187 million – 2009 $62 million – 2010 Total: $365 million Ontario Net federal fiscal transfer $18.2 billion – 2007 $9.1 billion – 2008 -$2.5 billion – 2009 -$10.8 billion – 2010 -$991 million – 2011 $1.3 billion – 2012 $2.5 billion – 2013 $8.9 billion – 2014 $13.5 billion – 2015 $16.3 billion – 2016 $20.7 billion – 2017 $21.7 billion – 2018 Total: $97.914 billion Equalization received None in 2007 and 2008 $285 million – 2009 $851 million – 2010 $2.0 billion – 2011 $3.0 billion – 201 $3.2 billion – 2013 $2.3 billion – 2014 $2.3 billion – 2015 $2.3 billion – 2016 $1.4 billion – 2017 $968 million – 2018 Total: $18.527 billion NEGATIVE CONTRIBUTORS Quebec Net federal fiscal transfer -$7.0 billion – 2007 -$13.0 billion – 2008 -$16.3 billion – 2009 -$18.5 billion – 2010 -$15.8 billion – 2011 -$14.8 billion – 2012 -$14.7 billion – 2013 -$15.0 billion – 2014 -$14.0 billion – 2015 -$14.3 billion – 2016 -$15.1 billion – 2017 -$12.9 billion – 2018 Total: -$171.3 billion Equalization received $6.8 billion – 2007 $8.1 billion – 2008 $8.4 billion – 2009 $8.8 billion – 2010 $8.7 billion – 2011 $7.8 billion – 2012 $7.8 billion – 2013 $9.0 billion – 2014 $9.6 billion – 2015 $9.8 billion – 2016 $11.0 billion – 2017 $11.8 billion – 2018 Total: $107.6 billion Edited November 15, 2019 by Ryan Strome 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thedestroyerofworlds Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 And who was in power for most of that? Who was in power when the last major changes to equalization? Harper and Kenny, that's who. So the guy who is complaining the loudest about the system had the power to change it. He and Alberta gets no sympathy. Check between $#@! And syphilis. That's where our sympathy can be found. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, thedestroyerofworlds said: And who was in power for most of that? Who was in power when the last major changes to equalization? Harper and Kenny, that's who. So the guy who is complaining the loudest about the system had the power to change it. He and Alberta gets no sympathy. Check between $#@! And syphilis. That's where our sympathy can be found. No one is looking for your sympathy. Absolutely the previous government also f#$@ed Alberta, infact they all will, the seats needed to win are in the east. But at least let's us go back to making money if we have continue carrying this country. Actually if Singh, Kos, macknuck, etc got their way where would the loss of 250 billion come from? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Ryan Strome said: How Alberta pays Quebec’s bills: Four charts that show Alberta picks up the tab In just 11 years, Albertans have paid out almost $240 billion to the rest of Canada. total horse $&!#. Alberta did not "pay out to the rest of Canada" Edited November 15, 2019 by Jimmy McGill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 Waaah we're so rich and make so much money we had to pay larger amounts of income tax...whaaaaahhhhhhhhhh! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, aGENT said: Waaah we're so rich and make so much money we had to pay larger amounts of income tax...whaaaaahhhhhhhhhh! bingo. Two things here: 1) the only way "Alberta" pays less is if they illegally withheld their taxes, and 2) it ignores the negative effect of the oil industry on other manufacturing and totally ignores the benefits of being in Canada. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: bingo. Two things here: 1) the only way "Alberta" pays less is if they illegally withheld their taxes, and 2) it ignores the negative effect of the oil industry on other manufacturing and totally ignores the benefits of being in Canada. A pay a crap tonne in taxes too...maybe I should demand free aGENT-stan be it's own country too 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, aGENT said: A pay a crap tonne in taxes too...maybe I should demand free aGENT-stan be it's own country too see how much we pay = see how much we make seems somehow that gets lost. Not to mention no individual Albertan does any more than any individual other-Canadian making the same money. Funny that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aGENT Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: see how much we pay = see how much we make seems somehow that gets lost. Not to mention no individual Albertan does any more than any individual other-Canadian making the same money. Funny that. Shhh Jimmy, you clearly don't understand basic economics 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 here's an interesting point of view: 'It's pretty brutal, pretty unforgiving': Why the West should move beyond an oilpatch economy Petroleum industry jobs are only a good living if you prepare for the bust, which always comes Rylan Higgins · for CBC News Opinion · Posted: Nov 15, 2019 4:00 AM ET | Last Updated: November 15 Workers prepare to start loading a tank car with oil at an Altex Energy terminal. The oil industry is 'global, immense and hell-bent on squeezing every penny out of the labour that goes into producing oil and gas,' says industry researcher Rylan Higgins. (Dave Rae/CBC) 3132 comments Perhaps there is no other topic for which I am better prepared to write commentary than the oil and gas industry. Ask my finger, it's a bit crooked thanks to a close encounter of the steel kind while working in Alberta's oil fields. Or ask my high-school girlfriend — during a dinner in the late 1980s, her mom could not quite grasp the subtleties of me dancing around the fact that our house had been repossessed by the bank after a downturn. Or ask the hundreds of oil and gas workers who have participated in research I've undertaken. Growing up an oilpatch brat, working in the industry, conducting long-term social science research on its impacts — I am confident saying the energy sector is not all it's cracked up to be. Importantly, this is not commentary on the workers, families and communities that support the industry. To them, I tip my hard hat. But after a convoy of oilpatch workers recently headed to Edmonton to counter the public environmentalism of Greta Thunberg, I felt compelled to remind people what they were defending. Trucks assemble in Red Deer, Alta., before the convoy drove into Edmonton in October as a counter protest to the Climate Strike Rally, which was attended by climate activist Greta Thunberg. (David Bajer/CBC) When my father, who worked in oil and gas most of his life, was in his forties, I could imagine him firing up his Chevy half-ton and driving to Edmonton from southern Alberta to protest some teenage foreigner trying to derail the primacy of oil and gas in the province. But in the latter years of his life, I doubt he'd have been up for it. He'd come to know the oil and gas industry much like I came to understand it. In short, it's pretty brutal, pretty unforgiving. Chews you up, spits you out. And I'm talking about people who have devoted their entire lives to it. It's not a surprise. The power at the top is global, immense and hell-bent on squeezing every penny out of the labour that goes into producing oil and gas. The industry has long been one based on inequality, bootstrap individualism and high-octane opportunism. Liberals regroup in Ottawa, trying to reconcile climate action with western alienation 'She knows oilsands': Energy industry welcomes McLellan appointment as Trudeau's adviser on Western Canada I was born into oil and gas. It put our family through the wringer more than once, but especially during the '80s when the bottom fell out, and my dad lost everything but his shirt to plummeting oil prices. Later, during one of the rather short-lived booms, I worked as a roughneck on both service rigs and drilling rigs. But I never planned to make it my career, in no small part because the experience gave me a first-hand look at what I would later learn through long-term anthropological research about the harsh impacts of oil and gas on individuals, families and communities. Pumpjacks are seen pumping crude oil near Halkirk, Alta. Boom and bust cycles in the petroleum industry have been difficult to predict. (Larry MacDougal/The Canadian Press) Importantly, the industry does have its benefits, including relatively good wages. But it's only a good living if you're foresighted and fortunate enough to prepare for the bust, which always comes. And even during the booms, workers and their families face challenges. Drilling for oil is often done in remote locations, and energy companies want rigs running 24 hours a day. Jobs in this sector include shift work in places far from home, which means workers spend weeks if not months away from loved ones. Interview after interview (and personal experience) revealed families struggling with these arrangements. Shift work is hard on the body, and the long-term separation comes with all kinds of problems for families. Alberta separation wouldn't solve problem of landlocked oil: expert Oilpatch communities are always trying to keep up, and it seems like they never really can. Boom and bust cycles are unpredictable; community leaders are often just wrapping their minds around how to handle the impacts of a boom when the bust hits. Major labour and housing shortages can turn, basically overnight, into high unemployment and housing market crashes. Not all booms and busts look the same, so even knowing this history does not always prepare communities. The petroleum industry offers relatively good wages, but that's weighed against the sector's unpredictable boom and bust cycle that can see lucrative jobs disappear virtually overnight. (Larry MacDougal/Canadian Press) And let's not forget just how opportunistic and contradictory the powerful people in the industry are. When times are good, they argue that government needs to get out of the way, that progress should not be impeded by labour or environmental regulations. Consider, however, the fact that oil and gas are extracted on land secured from Indigenous people with the help of the government. And what about the government subsidies from which the industry benefits? When the boom ends, industry enthusiasts are quick to fault the government for not prioritizing the sector's recovery. There are a lot of good reasons to transition away from this industry. It will be critical to consider the workers and families in the industry as we do so. The next economic arrangement should put workers, families and the environment first — and investors and corporate bigwigs last. In short, we'd be better off without oil and gas, and I'd bet there are plenty of workers and families who'd love an economy based on more stable, just and environmentally friendly industries. This column is part of CBC's Opinion section. For more information about this section, please read our FAQ. ABOUT THE AUTHOR Rylan Higgins Rylan Higgins is an associate professor of anthropology at Saint Mary's University in Halifax, Nova Scotia. https://www.cbc.ca/news/opinion/opinion-rylan-higgins-oil-patch-1.5358248 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, aGENT said: Shhh Jimmy, you clearly don't understand basic economics oh don't tell me, did I miss a 6 paragraph tome from Forsberg on economic theory? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 16 minutes ago, aGENT said: A pay a crap tonne in taxes too...maybe I should demand free aGENT-stan be it's own country too I think you should pay more. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 32 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: total horse $&!#. Alberta did not "pay out to the rest of Canada" Lol ok.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 1 minute ago, Ryan Strome said: Lol ok.. please explain how you did more for Canada than I did. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: please explain how you did more for Canada than I did. I'm not Alberta. Albertans however constantly carry the country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
inane Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 still going lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted November 15, 2019 Author Share Posted November 15, 2019 3 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: I'm not Alberta. Albertans however constantly carry the country. no, they don't. Oil patch jobs are concentrated... in the patch. Its not even "Alberta" its Suncor. Lets all thank Suncor. You're actually contradicting yourself. You say you're not Alberta, but then you turn around and want special treatment for being in Alberta. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 23 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: no, they don't. Oil patch jobs are concentrated... in the patch. Its not even "Alberta" its Suncor. Lets all thank Suncor. You're actually contradicting yourself. You say you're not Alberta, but then you turn around and want special treatment for being in Alberta. Suncor? What about Husky, cenovus, meg, torxen, cnrl, white cap, surge, etc..they don't count? I don't want any special treatment at all. I want paid fake environmentalists to stop holding back Alberta. If they don't then we opt out of equalization. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted November 15, 2019 Share Posted November 15, 2019 29 minutes ago, inane said: still going lol Still jumping in, interacting with nobody and adding nothing. Maybe find something else to do...I mean you could scold people more on them saying the "black vote." Those bloody racists. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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