The DumbBrexit / #Wexit thread

[Ryan Strome]

18 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its 12% of our GDP and accounts for about 500,000 jobs if you include all spin off jobs. Yeah that matters. No it doesn't carry us. Even his man Harper said so. 

 

Meh, its getting stale. Dude wants to be angry, loves thinking he pays for everyone  I wonder if he's Forsbeg too. 

So how do you make up the extra 20 plus billion alone in equalization?

Dude wants to be jealous about Alberta. Wonder if he is warhippy too.

[Ryan Strome]

27 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

you really like calling people hypocrites, don't you? 

 

I have to know, what do you think I'm jealous of? really tell me. Keep in mind I get to ski in the morning and walk my dog on the seawall in the afternoon. 

Is jealousy wrong? Superiority complex?

I don't pay pst, MSP, tolls, and about a buck cheaper a litre cheaper than you. Enjoy your morning skiing unfortunately I work in the morning but I guess I wanted to ski I'm an hour and you're in downtown Vancouver so that puts you an hour away also..

Edited January 27, 2020 by Ryan Strome

[Ryan Strome]

I'm off to bed kids unlike Jimmy I have to work in 5 hours.

[RowdyCanuck]

44 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said:

What oil money ?

 

Alberta offered BC   4 cans of chew and 6 free tractor pull tickets per year / per BC resident ......   if we agreed to allow their toxic sludge pipeline to be twinned into our harbour.

Please god watch this video!!!! 

i know a billion dollars doesn't sound like a lot but the trickle down effect would boom b.c more......

[inane]

9 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

I'm off to bed kids unlike Jimmy I have to work in 5 hours.

but you totally love canada. cool.

[JM_]

9 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

So how do you make up the extra 20 plus billion alone in equalization?

Dude wants to be jealous about Alberta. Wonder if he is warhippy too.

we won't need 20 billion since at least 6.6 of that won't need to be paid to Alberta. See now we're down to 13.4. The rest we'll make up in tariffs since you're dumb enough to actually land lock yourself. 

 

 

Edited January 27, 2020 by Jimmy McGill

[JM_]

9 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

Is jealousy wrong? Superiority complex?

I don't pay pst, MSP, tolls, and about a buck cheaper a litre cheaper than you. Enjoy your morning skiing unfortunately I work in the morning but I guess I wanted to ski I'm an hour and you're in downtown Vancouver so that puts you an hour away also..

its not a complex if its true. PST is the best you can come up with 

 

I don't know whats gotten into you the last couple of days but get back to me when you want to discuss things like an adult. 

[Warhippy]

11 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

You are in love with the NEP which devasted Alberta. How nice we had to sell our oil cheaper in Canada instead of getting market value. Don't hand me the differential argument of today, thats a pipeline capacity issue. Thanks Quebec, thanks minority in BC.

1.  The NEP didn't devastate Alberta, decreased energy prices over 7 years did which fell on the backs of a massive energy crisis created by opec, factor that in with the near 20% + interest rates and THAT was the death knell.  The NEP was bungled and certainly didn't help but it was more than workable.  Keeping in mind companies left Alberta due to the NDP the same way they left due to the NEP.  In large part, ut of spite, not entirely market decisions.

 

2.  So instead of selling to your countrymen and neighbours for a slightly below market price, it was more convenient to sell to the Americans or anywhere else at a below market price as the WCS which falls in to a subject of the WTI.  So ya, screw your country and the idea of refineries in every province and pipelines east to west; go go anyone else.  There's a reason Western Canadian Select has a separate pricing method.  Not all of which is the US refusal to ship alone. 

 

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/5e6f425a-e1c7-441a-9aa0-64890e4ecade/resource/b7080f88-f748-45f0-8294-81d32a7a834c/download/13-Explaining-oil-price-differentials-formatted.pdf

 

3.  Sure, ya BC and Quebec caused that and at NO point in time was any of that Alberta's own making.  Like at all.  Let's forget that there was no issue with capacity at all until Obama decided America should be energy independent and the Balkans really ramped up.  There is no way in hell this could simply be in part due to American companies deciding they'd rather use their line capacity shipping far more market friendly product to their bottom line.  Stupid BC and Quebec.

 

Petulant whining and revisionist history.  Every time, still not a single answer to a simple question though

Edit, I see Forsberg is somehow confused by this.  I guess when you present arguments that go against rigid belief structures people get confused easily

Edited January 27, 2020 by Warhippy

[Warhippy]

10 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said:

I agree but wouldn't all that oil money off set some of your loses though?.......

In fairness, one of the issues I pointed out was BC taking almost all the risk for very little of the profits.  The cost estimate of a spill clean up is in the billions, the amount needed to be carried by the companies is a quarter of that estimated cost.  Companies are mandated to only need to carry or hold $1.3 billion in insurance in the event of a spill.  Kinder Morgan was allowed to carry no fault for any spills originating at the docks or holding areas.  Chinese companies who spill outside of the harbour were very open about fighting any potential insurance claims.  As the government now owns the pipeline any and all clean up costs will belong to the taxpayer

 

Here is the cost estimate breakdown.  In fairness, it is BC again taking most of the risk and less than an 8th of the profits

 

• British Columbia receives $5.7 billion
• Alberta receives $19.4 billion
• The rest of Canada shares $21.6 billion
• Municipal tax payments (not adjusted for inflation) total $922 million to BC and $124 million to Alberta over the first 20 years of expanded pipeline operations.

[Warhippy]

9 hours ago, Ryan Strome said:

I'm off to bed kids unlike Jimmy I have to work in 5 hours.

Sure ya do.  Until oil companies say we're out. Then you beg, give money, tax breaks and beg again for them to stay,  But screw everyone else.  You get to pretend to be tough to them but lick the hand of a corporate master

 

Oh Say Can You See

[Warhippy]

10 hours ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its 12% of our GDP and accounts for about 500,000 jobs if you include all spin off jobs. Yeah that matters. No it doesn't carry us. Even his man Harper said so. 

 

Meh, its getting stale. Dude wants to be angry, loves thinking he pays for everyone  I wonder if he's Forsbeg too. 

Nah, it carries the whole nation.  Of course.  But you keep bringing up harper harpers not in power anymore.  it's Trudeau's fault.  No it's BCs fault, ok it's Quebec's fault now too.

 

Screw your facts.  Your numbers.  I don't have to answer that, soshulust lover

 

19 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we won't need 20 billion since at least 6.6 of that won't need to be paid to Alberta. See now we're down to 13.4. The rest we'll make up in tariffs since you're dumb enough to actually land lock yourself. 

 

 

The prevailing argument from his camp is that Canada Weill just somehow make it work for them.  or that somehow someway America, will allow a sovereign nation to continue using existing lines that are part of a NAFTA agreement between Canada, American and Mexico without renegotiation or annexation of said 30% of the remains of what was once Alberta.

 

Reality is not a strong point in that argument at all.

[RowdyCanuck]

12 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

In fairness, one of the issues I pointed out was BC taking almost all the risk for very little of the profits.  The cost estimate of a spill clean up is in the billions, the amount needed to be carried by the companies is a quarter of that estimated cost.  Companies are mandated to only need to carry or hold $1.3 billion in insurance in the event of a spill.  Kinder Morgan was allowed to carry no fault for any spills originating at the docks or holding areas.  Chinese companies who spill outside of the harbour were very open about fighting any potential insurance claims.  As the government now owns the pipeline any and all clean up costs will belong to the taxpayer

 

Here is the cost estimate breakdown.  In fairness, it is BC again taking most of the risk and less than an 8th of the profits

 

• British Columbia receives $5.7 billion
• Alberta receives $19.4 billion
• The rest of Canada shares $21.6 billion
• Municipal tax payments (not adjusted for inflation) total $922 million to BC and $124 million to Alberta over the first 20 years of expanded pipeline operations.

But that's kinda the price everyone pays in Canada isn't? What about Manitoba or s.k wheat fields? Or s.k water ? 

Thats the cost of business and the cost all Canada pays not just b.c. 

But b.c is prettier then Manitoba and s.k at times......

[JM_]

5 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Nah, it carries the whole nation.  Of course.  But you keep bringing up harper harpers not in power anymore.  it's Trudeau's fault.  No it's BCs fault, ok it's Quebec's fault now too.

 

Screw your facts.  Your numbers.  I don't have to answer that, soshulust lover

 

The prevailing argument from his camp is that Canada Weill just somehow make it work for them.  or that somehow someway America, will allow a sovereign nation to continue using existing lines that are part of a NAFTA agreement between Canada, American and Mexico without renegotiation or annexation of said 30% of the remains of what was once Alberta.

 

Reality is not a strong point in that argument at all.

Harper absolutely gutted the oil portfolio. But Trudeau buying TMX to ensure it happens is what he's mad about?  

 

We haven't touched on it much, but you have to wonder what effect landlocked Albertastan will have on grain shipments, beef, pork, etc. Unless the plan is for Alberta to compete with the US on that too, and have them as their main customer? 

 

BC won't be joining the pity party. Manitoba either. As usual Alberta's best laid plans require partners. 

 

[Ryan Strome]

34 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

we won't need 20 billion since at least 6.6 of that won't need to be paid to Alberta. See now we're down to 13.4. The rest we'll make up in tariffs since you're dumb enough to actually land lock yourself. 

 

 

Nope we aren't. The differential is 30 billion. Check your numbers.

32 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

its not a complex if its true. PST is the best you can come up with 

 

I don't know whats gotten into you the last couple of days but get back to me when you want to discuss things like an adult. 

I also included msp and tolls. Jim, you basically said exactly why Albertans are angry with the liberals screwing except you used BC getting screwed by Harper. You are now dodging over what I caught you in.

24 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

1.  The NEP didn't devastate Alberta, decreased energy prices over 7 years did which fell on the backs of a massive energy crisis created by opec, factor that in with the near 20% + interest rates and THAT was the death knell.  The NEP was bungled and certainly didn't help but it was more than workable.  Keeping in mind companies left Alberta due to the NDP the same way they left due to the NEP.  In large part, ut of spite, not entirely market decisions.

 

2.  So instead of selling to your countrymen and neighbours for a slightly below market price, it was more convenient to sell to the Americans or anywhere else at a below market price as the WCS which falls in to a subject of the WTI.  So ya, screw your country and the idea of refineries in every province and pipelines east to west; go go anyone else.  There's a reason Western Canadian Select has a separate pricing method.  Not all of which is the US refusal to ship alone. 

 

https://open.alberta.ca/dataset/5e6f425a-e1c7-441a-9aa0-64890e4ecade/resource/b7080f88-f748-45f0-8294-81d32a7a834c/download/13-Explaining-oil-price-differentials-formatted.pdf

 

3.  Sure, ya BC and Quebec caused that and at NO point in time was any of that Alberta's own making.  Like at all.  Let's forget that there was no issue with capacity at all until Obama decided America should be energy independent and the Balkans really ramped up.  There is no way in hell this could simply be in part due to American companies deciding they'd rather use their line capacity shipping far more market friendly product to their bottom line.  Stupid BC and Quebec.

 

Petulant whining and revisionist history.  Every time, still not a single answer to a simple question though

Edit, I see Forsberg is somehow confused by this.  I guess when you present arguments that go against rigid belief structures people get confused easily

Does BC sell lumber at a reduced rate to the rest of Canada?

15 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Sure ya do.  Until oil companies say we're out. Then you beg, give money, tax breaks and beg again for them to stay,  But screw everyone else.  You get to pretend to be tough to them but lick the hand of a corporate master

 

Oh Say Can You See

Please show me where Alberta begged to Ottawa for help.

[Warhippy]

8 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said:

But that's kinda the price everyone pays in Canada isn't? What about Manitoba or s.k wheat fields? Or s.k water ? 

Thats the cost of business and the cost all Canada pays not just b.c. 

But b.c is prettier then Manitoba and s.k at times......

No.  No not at all

 

Running a pipeline through a field.  Cleaning up a few hundred gallons of standing oil is one thing.

 

Losing hundreds of thousands of gallons in an ocean tide churned up by ship traffic is entirely different.  That's not the cost of business.  That's me effectively telling you I will run this sewer line through your pool.  If it breaks, it's your clean up.  But I'll give you $5 out of every $46 I make so don't worry.  If it DOES blow up though, I guess everyone else will pay for it including you.  but for the short term it's all on you

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said:

Nope we aren't. The differential is 30 billion. Check your numbers.

I also included msp and tolls. Jim, you basically said exactly why Albertans are angry with the liberals screwing except you used BC getting screwed by Harper. You are now dodging over what I caught you in.

Does BC sell lumber at a reduced rate to the rest of Canada?

Please show me where Alberta begged to Ottawa for help.

I'm not dodging anything. What are you talking about? 

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said:

Harper absolutely gutted the oil portfolio. But Trudeau buying TMX to ensure it happens is what he's mad about?  

 

We haven't touched on it much, but you have to wonder what effect landlocked Albertastan will have on grain shipments, beef, pork, etc. Unless the plan is for Alberta to compete with the US on that too, and have them as their main customer? 

 

BC won't be joining the pity party. Manitoba either. As usual Alberta's best laid plans require partners. 

 

I've said it twice.  Alberta without the mountains and up to 70% of its remaining landmass; including oil will effectively be the Dakotas without the shale.

 

There's literally NO way the US allows a tiny landlocked nation that has literally zero leverage the same rights it has as part of the nation of Canada.  At all.

 

But that camp keeps claiming otherwise.  it's remarkable.  Because the US has a history of not giving nations with oil and no military backing "freedom" at all

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Jimmy McGill said:

I'm not dodging anything. What are you talking about? 

Claims you are dodging...still has not answered a yes or no question after like 4 days and over 14 times being asked it.

[JM_]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Claims you are dodging...still has not answered a yes or no question after like 4 days and over 14 times being asked it.

yeah but what? I don't get it. Harper lit the fuse, Trudeau but on the ban. What am I dodging? 

[JM_]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

I've said it twice.  Alberta without the mountains and up to 70% of its remaining landmass; including oil will effectively be the Dakotas without the shale.

 

There's literally NO way the US allows a tiny landlocked nation that has literally zero leverage the same rights it has as part of the nation of Canada.  At all.

 

But that camp keeps claiming otherwise.  it's remarkable.  Because the US has a history of not giving nations with oil and no military backing "freedom" at all

They think they're creating their version of the Bloc Quebecois. But they don't seem to realize they don't have the same leverage and never will. #landlocked