Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 8 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: But you have to understand a lot of this generation hasn't seen oil crash......or they don't remember..... so if all someone knows the boom then yea it is unfair.... but also like I said all whole generation was raised in a boom and so yea we do kinda owe thx to Alberta for that. their the ones that always sacrifice their land for the oil sands and take care of the whole oil industry in Canada I do think Canada owes Alberta......remember when in the early 90's and 80's the logging boom and how people hated loggers, then oil took over and has taken most of the heat off logging and other industries Not entirely true, there was one in 98, another in 2002 and then the crash and subsequent energy rush in 2008. That is on top of the NAFTA downturn that Klein took over for. The ridiculous energy crisis from 1981 through 1986 that was brought on directly due to the OPEC crisis of the 70s which facilitated the US investing so heavily in to the oilseeds development and Alaskan/Gulf enterprises. There's been a number of downturns, but this one has been the longest non conflict issue since the 70s/80s and does not show signs of abatement any time soon due to market forces beyond the control of the province or Ottawa. But while there are many families who owe their success to Alberta, there are equally as many companies, businesses and families in Alberta that owe their livelihood to people who came TO Alberta from across the nation, as well as the massive amount of money that the entire nation flooded in to Alberta from the 50s through early 80s. Again, the biggest issue here is that there is little to no recognition towards this nation as a whole. it is we, I, mine. Not us, ours, Canada's. That in my opinion is the biggest issue facing the current state in Alberta as it was. Edited January 27, 2020 by Warhippy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Not entirely true, there was one in 98, another in 2002 and then the crash and subsequent energy rush in 2008. That is on top of the NAFTA downturn that Klein took over for. The ridiculous energy crisis from 1981 through 1986 that was brought on directly due to the OPEC crisis of the 70s which facilitated the US investing so heavily in to the oilseeds development and Alaskan/Gulf enterprises. There's been a number of downturns, but this one has been the longest non conflict issue since the 70s/80s and does not show signs of abatement any time soon due to market forces beyond the control of the province or Ottawa I agree it has dipped but we have never seen it crash or be worth what it was worth in the early 90's , if we capped the oil prices then and set a cap on how much we produced and a wage cap.....if more oil companies had unions things would he different... edit* if b.c accepted kinder Morgan's offer then I would agree and Alberta wouldn't be bitching.....but b.c did what the province wanted and didn't think of the effect it would have on all of Canada in course time Edited January 27, 2020 by RowdyCanuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: I agree it has dipped but we have never seen it crash or be worth what it was worth in the early 90's , if we capped the oil prices then and set a cap on how much we produced and a wage cap.....if more oil companies had unions things would he different... edit* if b.c accepted kinder Morgan's offer then I would agree and Alberta wouldn't be bitching.....but b.c did what the province wanted and didn't think of the effect it would have on all of Canada in course time I have been pro TMX since the moment it was suggested. it not only makes the most sense, it's also the safest route. But, and this is important. BC has, had and exercised the exact same rights that Alberta fought for during the NEP program in the 80s. BC literally went to bat and did exactly what Alberta did no more no less. The entire process was rushed, was flawed and was done without the consent of numerous different players whose rights were being infringed upon as stated in our constitution. Had things been done correctly, by the book and regarding everyone's rights and wishes we'd not be here at all. But they weren't and here we are. My only issues with the pipeline have been as follows The lies of lowering gas prices for the lower mainland and BC. The amount of risk BC was and is taking in contrast to their level of compensation The lack of ANY committed response plan and mitigation or abatement equipment Shoving that many extra vessels through a narrow area in to an aged and slow refilling station instead of creating a new one off the cost of Vancouver Island Finally, for me the most important is the China/Canada trade agreement Harper signed in to power. This one gave and still gives China, Chinese companies and private citizens power over BC. The lack of any power of enforcement over Chinese nationals, companies or their government in the event of a spill in contrast to the insultingly small insurance amount required to be held by them in the event of a spill would and still leads BC and the Canadian taxpayers on the hook for the majority of the clean up costs. Still pro pipeline, but they didn't measure twice, they just cut once and here we are Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 11 minutes ago, Warhippy said: Not entirely true, there was one in 98, another in 2002 and then the crash and subsequent energy rush in 2008. That is on top of the NAFTA downturn that Klein took over for. The ridiculous energy crisis from 1981 through 1986 that was brought on directly due to the OPEC crisis of the 70s which facilitated the US investing so heavily in to the oilseeds development and Alaskan/Gulf enterprises. There's been a number of downturns, but this one has been the longest non conflict issue since the 70s/80s and does not show signs of abatement any time soon due to market forces beyond the control of the province or Ottawa. But while there are many families who owe their success to Alberta, there are equally as many companies, businesses and families in Alberta that owe their livelihood to people who came TO Alberta from across the nation, as well as the massive amount of money that the entire nation flooded in to Alberta from the 50s through early 80s. Again, the biggest issue here is that there is little to no recognition towards this nation as a whole. it is we, I, mine. Not us, ours, Canada's. That in my opinion is the biggest issue facing the current state in Alberta as it was. You are in love with the NEP which devasted Alberta. How nice we had to sell our oil cheaper in Canada instead of getting market value. Don't hand me the differential argument of today, thats a pipeline capacity issue. Thanks Quebec, thanks minority in BC. 8 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: I agree it has dipped but we have never seen it crash or be worth what it was worth in the early 90's , if we capped the oil prices then and set a cap on how much we produced and a wage cap.....if more oil companies had unions things would he different... edit* if b.c accepted kinder Morgan's offer then I would agree and Alberta wouldn't be bitching.....but b.c did what the province wanted and didn't think of the effect it would have on all of Canada in course time This whole you hate BC nonsense hip and Jim are playing up recently is just that, nonsense. The majority of BCers support the TMX expansion. The BC liberals played us against them as an election ploy and the BC ndp needed to appease their environmental base, who for some reason don't understand pipelines are safer and better for the environment than rail. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I have been pro TMX since the moment it was suggested. it not only makes the most sense, it's also the safest route. But, and this is important. BC has, had and exercised the exact same rights that Alberta fought for during the NEP program in the 80s. BC literally went to bat and did exactly what Alberta did no more no less. The entire process was rushed, was flawed and was done without the consent of numerous different players whose rights were being infringed upon as stated in our constitution. Had things been done correctly, by the book and regarding everyone's rights and wishes we'd not be here at all. But they weren't and here we are. My only issues with the pipeline have been as follows The lies of lowering gas prices for the lower mainland and BC. The amount of risk BC was and is taking in contrast to their level of compensation The lack of ANY committed response plan and mitigation or abatement equipment Shoving that many extra vessels through a narrow area in to an aged and slow refilling station instead of creating a new one off the cost of Vancouver Island Finally, for me the most important is the China/Canada trade agreement Harper signed in to power. This one gave and still gives China, Chinese companies and private citizens power over BC. The lack of any power of enforcement over Chinese nationals, companies or their government in the event of a spill in contrast to the insultingly small insurance amount required to be held by them in the event of a spill would and still leads BC and the Canadian taxpayers on the hook for the majority of the clean up costs. Still pro pipeline, but they didn't measure twice, they just cut once and here we are here watch this and it answers a lot of your worries. They will probably build a new refilling station in the future, have to save money where you can at the start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 23 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: You are in love with the NEP which devasted Alberta. How nice we had to sell our oil cheaper in Canada instead of getting market value. Don't hand me the differential argument of today, thats a pipeline capacity issue. Thanks Quebec, thanks minority in BC. This whole you hate BC nonsense hip and Jim are playing up recently is just that, nonsense. The majority of BCers support the TMX expansion. The BC liberals played us against them as an election ploy and the BC ndp needed to appease their environmental base, who for some reason don't understand pipelines are safer and better for the environment than rail. F U . - JT FU - Alberta Oil tanker spill off Vancouver would reach shorelines within hours: study If a large tanker spilled a fifth of its oil while under the Lions Gate Bridge, the toxic substance would float out into English Bay within two hours, and likely begin washing up on the shores of tony West Vancouver within six hours, if no response was launched by authorities. In nine hours, absent any official response, the tide would have carried about the equivalent amount of oil into Coal Harbour that was estimated to have spilled from the MV Marathassa's bunker fuel tanks last month. Within 40 hours, the wind and tidal currents would have combined to bring thousands of litres of oil into Burrard Inlet and its surrounding shorelines, causing significant harm to the local economy, population and environment. That is what would happen in one of four worst-case spill scenarios modelled in a new study sponsored by Tsleil-Waututh First Nation and the cities of Vancouver and Burnaby, all of which are opposed to the proposed expansion of Kinder Morgan's Trans Mountain pipeline. The group says the expansion, which is winding its way through the National Energy Board's approval process, would increase the number of tankers plying Burrard Inlet each month by nearly six times, and it is concerned that Kinder Morgan's emergency and spill response plans "may not be adequate" in the event of the large spills modelled in the study. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/oil-tanker-spill-off-vancouver-would-reach-shorelines-within-hours-study/article24457194/ Edited January 27, 2020 by kingofsurrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: F U . - JT FU - Alberta Oil tanker spill off Vancouver would reach shorelines within hours: study If a large tanker spilled a fifth of its oil while under the Lions Gate Bridge, the toxic substance would float out into English Bay within two hours, and likely begin washing up on the shores of tony West Vancouver within six hours, if no response was launched by authorities. In nine hours, absent any official response, the tide would have carried about the equivalent amount of oil into Coal Harbour that was estimated to have spilled from the MV Marathassa's bunker fuel tanks last month. Within 40 hours, the wind and tidal currents would have combined to bring thousands of litres of oil into Burrard Inlet and its surrounding shorelines, causing significant harm to the local economy, population and environment. That is what would happen in one of four worst-case spill scenarios modelled in a new study sponsored by Tsleil-Waututh First Nation and the cities of Vancouver and Burnaby, all of which are opposed to the proposed expansion of Kinder Morgan's Trans Mountain pipeline. The group says the expansion, which is winding its way through the National Energy Board's approval process, would increase the number of tankers plying Burrard Inlet each month by nearly six times, and it is concerned that Kinder Morgan's emergency and spill response plans "may not be adequate" in the event of the large spills modelled in the study. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/oil-tanker-spill-off-vancouver-would-reach-shorelines-within-hours-study/article24457194/ A study......if I walk out into traffic I might get it or I might not.... i took it to the extreme and kept it simple but the pipeline has less chances of leaking then I have getting hit by a car. Edited January 27, 2020 by RowdyCanuck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: A study......if I walk out into traffic I might get it or I might not.... i took it to the extreme and kept it simple but the pipeline has less chances of leaking then I have getting hit by a car. Wrong location for a terminal for peanut butter sludge Bitumen. The issue is a tanker collision or grounding. Too risky on Vancouver tourism industry. Edited January 27, 2020 by kingofsurrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 5 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Wrong location for a terminal for peanut butter sludge Bitumen. The issue is a tanker collision or grounding. Too risky on Vancouver tourism industry. Ships already come in there....and also that's a problem for the tanker companies not the pipeline....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 6 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: Ships already come in there....and also that's a problem for the tanker companies not the pipeline....... It is actually a problem for those of us that live / work in the area and play / paddle on/near the vancouver beaches / shorelines...... Tourism contributes approximately $4.8 billion to the Metro Vancouver economy annually and supports over 70,000 full time jobs. https://www.tourismvancouver.com/media/corporate-communications/vancouvers-tourism-industry-fast-facts/ Edited January 27, 2020 by kingofsurrey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: It is actually a problem for those of us that live / work in the area and play / paddle on/near the vancouver beaches / shorelines...... Tourism contributes approximately $4.8 billion to the Metro Vancouver economy annually and supports over 70,000 full time jobs. https://www.tourismvancouver.com/media/corporate-communications/vancouvers-tourism-industry-fast-facts/ I agree but wouldn't all that oil money off set some of your loses though?....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said: I agree but wouldn't all that oil money off set some of your loses though?....... What oil money ? Alberta offered BC 4 cans of chew and 6 free tractor pull tickets per year / per BC resident ...... if we agreed to allow their toxic sludge pipeline to be twinned into our harbour. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 32 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: F U . - JT FU - Alberta Oil tanker spill off Vancouver would reach shorelines within hours: study If a large tanker spilled a fifth of its oil while under the Lions Gate Bridge, the toxic substance would float out into English Bay within two hours, and likely begin washing up on the shores of tony West Vancouver within six hours, if no response was launched by authorities. In nine hours, absent any official response, the tide would have carried about the equivalent amount of oil into Coal Harbour that was estimated to have spilled from the MV Marathassa's bunker fuel tanks last month. Within 40 hours, the wind and tidal currents would have combined to bring thousands of litres of oil into Burrard Inlet and its surrounding shorelines, causing significant harm to the local economy, population and environment. That is what would happen in one of four worst-case spill scenarios modelled in a new study sponsored by Tsleil-Waututh First Nation and the cities of Vancouver and Burnaby, all of which are opposed to the proposed expansion of Kinder Morgan's Trans Mountain pipeline. The group says the expansion, which is winding its way through the National Energy Board's approval process, would increase the number of tankers plying Burrard Inlet each month by nearly six times, and it is concerned that Kinder Morgan's emergency and spill response plans "may not be adequate" in the event of the large spills modelled in the study. https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/british-columbia/oil-tanker-spill-off-vancouver-would-reach-shorelines-within-hours-study/article24457194/ But you voted for JT and yesterday called him the best.. Were you drunk at the hozone or poncho and lefties again last night? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Btw it's just the opinion of some people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: But you voted for JT and yesterday called him the best.. Were you drunk at the hozone or poncho and lefties again last night? OK i will put it into Alberta language so you riggies can grasp the issue. I want to go swimming..... I don't have a pool .. but you Albertan have a very nice natural pool with great landscaping and even a few squirels/birds small animals that live near by... I tell you i am on my way over to use your pool.... but i won't pay you anything as we are both Canadians.... So i go to Alberta and take a big dump in your backyard pool...... I tell you not to worry about it as we should have some kind of clean up crew arriving in the next few weeks to clean up your pool.... Would you be OK with this kind of deal ? Edited January 27, 2020 by kingofsurrey 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 6 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: Btw it's just the opinion of some people. Some people think OJ is innocent as well..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 4 hours ago, Ryan Strome said: And Trudeau is screwing Alberta but in this case it's no big deal you're a hypocrite. And save the he bought you a pipeline nonsense. Pretty sad that investors constantly walk away from Canada. Facts are facts, Alberta carries Canada. I get you're jealous that's fine but that's reality, without Alberta Canada would be screwed, without BC nothing would change. you really like calling people hypocrites, don't you? I have to know, what do you think I'm jealous of? really tell me. Keep in mind I get to ski in the morning and walk my dog on the seawall in the afternoon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 3 hours ago, Warhippy said: Will not stop him from repeating those same talking points ad nauseam its 12% of our GDP and accounts for about 500,000 jobs if you include all spin off jobs. Yeah that matters. No it doesn't carry us. Even his man Harper said so. Meh, its getting stale. Dude wants to be angry, loves thinking he pays for everyone I wonder if he's Forsbeg too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kingofsurrey Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: I wonder if he's Forsbeg too. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryan Strome Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 25 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: OK i will put it into Alberta language so you riggies can grasp the issue. I want to go swimming..... I don't have a pool .. but you Albertan have a very nice natural pool with great landscaping and even a few squirels/birds small animals that live near by... I tell you i am on my way over to use your pool.... but i won't pay you anything as we are both Canadians.... So i go to Alberta and take a big dump in your backyard pool...... I tell you not to worry about it as we should have some kind of clean up crew arriving in the next few weeks to clean up your pool.... Would you be OK with this kind of deal ? Not really nir did that have anything to do with what I said. Unfortunately for you the majority in BC want it. Didn't you earlier say that's how democracies work? You're like Jimmy..you say the wrong thing at the right time or right thing at the wrong time. 21 minutes ago, kingofsurrey said: Some people think OJ is innocent as well..... Ya the state of California for one.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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