Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 hour ago, RowdyCanuck said: So b.c wants to he like calli a failed liberal state , that has enough homeless to start its own army?.....ha go for it Cali has the 4th largest economy in the US and one of the largest GDPs in the entire world Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 Just now, RowdyCanuck said: Well actually all those trade agreements wouldn't still stand and would have to be renegotiated cause Alberta would be a country and no longer a province..... right, exactly. You're assuming being a smaller entity with one major export to one major customer gives you MORE power to negotiate with the US? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 55 minutes ago, Boudrias said: So what is your plan Jimmy ship everything headed for the ROC thru the Canal? BC would be isolated from the rest of Canada and you say AB is in an untenable position? If BC did not ultimately join AB then a 'quid pro quo' (thought you would like that) would have to be worked out. Surprise, just like real countries. In the event Alberta leaves it leaves up to 70% oil its existing landmass, that includes vital rail. So no. BC would not in effect be cut off from the nation As well, we have the Yukon and NWT connecting us and what remains of Alberta under the Canadian umbrella. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 8 minutes ago, Warhippy said: I'm not saying it is more beautiful. Hadn't mentioned that once at all. But I will say that BCs coastal waterways are a HUGE part of BCs economy. if they get shut down and BC is then also on the hook for the majority of the clean up costs but only reaping say an 8th of the entire profits it's more than a net loss it's crippling. Imagine a line blows up in a farmers canola fields. Literally turfs their entire crop for the year, then they're told the rest of the country will help...but only like 20% and if they can't plant next year it's their issue That's the exact scenario BC faces in a worst case scenario. Has nothing to do with beauty, because let's be honest BC's beauty is as transparent as Albertas demands. Yes but who are you to value your industry over another provinces? When they face similar risks...... also put in policies that protect you..... directional drilling which we both agree is some what the future but it's classified under oil and gas sector....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 49 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: Why? If we can reach a fair trade agreement with the USA and use their coast to ship to china or other countries then we are actually in a better spot then you......don't forget JT would be the one handling the trade talks for you guys lol If you reach. fair deal with the US? You really think the US would be giving you a fair deal? You really think the province run by guys who just forked over billions in tax breaks to multi billion dollar profiting corporations on the backs of its citizens would be able to secure a quality deal with America? Really? 48 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: I think you need to go back and look at our GDP growth history, even when oil crashes we still have had small growth. Year over year GDP has peaks and valleys yes, but the trend has been overall continued growth for decades. He has "business sense". Look at his comments Obviously he understands business threw and threw 46 minutes ago, bishopshodan said: If it happened, what I think about is.. What if the States and Canada get together to squeeze this new land locked republic for all they can? The States and Canada go way back and have a lot of dealings together. They would have more leverage over each other than Alberta. It could be in their best interest to bend AB over a barrel ( pun intended) and reap the rewards. You may have noticed the dude down south only cares about the US. He would likely go the path that overall benefits them the most. It doesn't matter how much sense you make. At all. He has stated he knows better and if you point out the fallacy in his argument regarding basic economics he will say you just don't understand what he ois talking about then accuse you of being jealous of how young he is or something. So your facts are pointless 29 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: Do I need to explain how world trade works?....... Or economics ? Every country depends on others..... Please. Explain how trade works to me in your mind. I have an hour to kill 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, Jimmy McGill said: right, exactly. You're assuming being a smaller entity with one major export to one major customer gives you MORE power to negotiate with the US? We may only have one to sell but we could sustain our own province on what we produced once the oil prices went up........ Also what about all that land and companies that Albertans own in other provinces......taxes help and Albertans have started or funded a lot of different companies lol but that's basic business to a cowboy like my self don't know what you city slickers see...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 3 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: Yes but who are you to value your industry over another provinces? When they face similar risks...... also put in policies that protect you..... directional drilling which we both agree is some what the future but it's classified under oil and gas sector....... So we're clear. You've decided Oil is the lifeblood of Alberta. But Ignore that BC's economy is heavily tied to not only tourism, but also shipping and fishing. So you're saying it's ok to potentially cripple BC for years to come but BC cannot ask for a fair shake from Alberta? Is that this "business sense" you speak of? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 Just now, Warhippy said: So we're clear. You've decided Oil is the lifeblood of Alberta. But Ignore that BC's economy is heavily tied to not only tourism, but also shipping and fishing. So you're saying it's ok to potentially cripple BC for years to come but BC cannot ask for a fair shake from Alberta? Is that this "business sense" you speak of? Oil is a risk to everyone that uses it...... but your saying your industries are more valuable then other provinces that face the same risks....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 Just now, RowdyCanuck said: We may only have one to sell but we could sustain our own province on what we produced once the oil prices went up........ Also what about all that land and companies that Albertans own in other provinces......taxes help and Albertans have started or funded a lot of different companies lol but that's basic business to a cowboy like my self don't know what you city slickers see...lol maybe. You're assuming that paying professionals like teachers and doctors is going to stay the same, which it won't, that will increase dramatically, particularly physicians and nurses. They have options to go anywhere, and will have a great time negotiating new deals. Also, what happens if oll prices go down and stay depressed? who's going to loan Alberta money to go into debt? who's going to buy an Alberta junk bond to fund your debt? Its just dumb, its right there in the title of this thread. At every turn, Alberta is hamstrung. But... here's a radical idea I know - what if Alberta stopped being angry, and started looking for partnerships instead? I wonder how that would work out? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBossy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 13 minutes ago, Ryan Strome said: No I don't but I also don't want a moratorium. So it's alright for you to hate and be mad at a politician but not us. Sound argument, Jim. Get back to me when you can gave meaningful debate. We are the most educated province in Canada. Based on what? I know in 2013 the rankings from Macleans magazine had Alberta ranked 5th in University Education. However if it comes to Skilled Labour I would agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said: We may only have one to sell but we could sustain our own province on what we produced once the oil prices went up........ Also what about all that land and companies that Albertans own in other provinces...... taxes help and Albertans have started or funded a lot of different companies lol but that's basic business to a cowboy like my self don't know what you city slickers see...lol OK one by one You do only have one to sell. Oil prices have been depressed for years, socially companies are moving away from oil products and far more viable futures including green technology. regardless of the evils of solar/lithium and the slow development of hydrogen, it is picking up exponentially. In 20 years you'll have literally nothing. So what if oil NEVER comes back to those lofty $90 barrels? That land owned by Albertans will then be subject to further taxation and potentially foreign ownership laws. It will still be taxed under Canadian/Provincial rates. Or they can sell. Means nothing to the rest of us. More homes or land available means more opportunity for Canadians Taxes have funded a lot of different companies. Right now Albertans are watching their government give billions to companies on their backs while they get services cut. They are watching their government tell them they won't help recoup unpaid monies owed to citizens or municipalities because businesses are more important and you can't wring blood from a stone. I mean that is apparently a good deal to some, but to the rest of the common sense crowd it's amusingly one sided Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 4 minutes ago, Warhippy said: If you reach. fair deal with the US? You really think the US would be giving you a fair deal? You really think the province run by guys who just forked over billions in tax breaks to multi billion dollar profiting corporations on the backs of its citizens would be able to secure a quality deal with America? Really? He has "business sense". Look at his comments Obviously he understands business threw and threw It doesn't matter how much sense you make. At all. He has stated he knows better and if you point out the fallacy in his argument regarding basic economics he will say you just don't understand what he ois talking about then accuse you of being jealous of how young he is or something. So your facts are pointless Please. Explain how trade works to me in your mind. I have an hour to kill King I know the way I talk on here annoys you but everything is as simple as I can make it out. I explain to grown ass men business on the daily and cause I don't use your methods to prove my side so it holds no water? for me to do that I would have to ask every albertan that works in the oil and gas industry where they spend their personal money ha no many people just come forth with that info lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: Oil is a risk to everyone that uses it...... but your saying your industries are more valuable then other provinces that face the same risks....... No, that's not what I'm saying. That's the conclusion you jumped to. I am saying you're refusing to give BC the same level of consideration that you're literally demanding for Alberta while also demanding BC take all the risk with none of the reward. Would you be willing to say "in the event of a major spill Alberta will cover the entire or majority of the clean up costs and subsidize BC companies and workers left economically distraught from said spill" Just really curious about that last question. For very obvious reasons I think you may miss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, RowdyCanuck said: King I know the way I talk on here annoys you but everything is as simple as I can make it out. I explain to grown ass men business on the daily and cause I don't use your methods to prove my side so it holds no water? for me to do that I would have to ask every albertan that works in the oil and gas industry where they spend their personal money ha no many people just come forth with that info lol I need for you to explain to me how you think trade works please. You claim to have a superior grasp on it and I would like the education. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBossy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 16 hours ago, RowdyCanuck said: https://news.gov.bc.ca/releases/2016JTST0164-001808 a few places on that list better well thank the people from Alberta! They go there the most. So if Alberta separates would that not mean they would need passports to visit Canada 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, Warhippy said: No, that's not what I'm saying. That's the conclusion you jumped to. I am saying you're refusing to give BC the same level of consideration that you're literally demanding for Alberta while also demanding BC take all the risk with none of the reward. Would you be willing to say "in the event of a major spill Alberta will cover the entire or majority of the clean up costs and subsidize BC companies and workers left economically distraught from said spill" Just really curious about that last question. For very obvious reasons I think you may miss Kinder Morgan already agreed to cover all clean up cost from the pipeline.....that means spills too. Also so it doesn't help that most provinces that have oil or benefit from it bender over back wards to get the projects pushed threw......no one had a problem when it was the prairies getting ripped threw...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JM_ Posted January 27, 2020 Author Share Posted January 27, 2020 Just now, MikeBossy said: So if Alberta separates would that not mean they would need passports to visit Canada that would be an interesting negotiation. Canada can pass a law that its citizens can only have one single citizenship (in fact many in the CPC want that). So New Albertastanian's would have to choose. You'd end up with 10's of thousands of "foreign workers" paying taxes to both Canada and Alberta. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyCanuck Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, MikeBossy said: So if Alberta separates would that not mean they would need passports to visit Canada Yea lol tax grab....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 1 minute ago, MikeBossy said: So if Alberta separates would that not mean they would need passports to visit Canada That is correct. Alberta would need to set up the following Police forcer Currency Passports Internal rail Internal economy education Trade agreements Energy transfer agreements First Nations agreements Honestly, the cost of creating their own nation out of the potentially 30% that remains of the province in the event of the clarity agreement standards would effectively bankrupt them then being forced to create energy transfer agreements with corporations that have sucked them dry for years through a nation they just threw their middle finger up to, and a nation that has done everything in their power since the 8ps to keep their oil landlocked...it not only doesn't look good. It looks like a nation with less purchasing power than the republic of Georgia Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 27, 2020 Share Posted January 27, 2020 2 minutes ago, RowdyCanuck said: Kinder Morgan already agreed to cover all clean up cost from the pipeline.....that means spills too. Also so it doesn't help that most provinces that have oil or benefit from it bender over back wards to get the projects pushed threw......no one had a problem when it was the prairies getting ripped threw...... Sorry, does Kinder Morgan own the pipeline? I can't remember. Who owns Trans Mountain again? I mean, I find it hard to believe that Kinder Morgan would agree to clean up ALL costs from any pipeline spill for a pipeline they don't own. As well, prior to the sale; they had literally no insurance policy owning the right of remediation in the event of a spill off the docks. Part of that business sense I guess 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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