[Offer Sheet] Hurricanes offer sheet Jesperi Kotkaniemi

[knucklehead91]

46 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

I dont believe Turris is his ceiling, like I said proabably more in the mold of Johansen or Scheifele is his ceiling as he just turned 21.

 

I would have loved it, even better if you are a contender. Very low cost to acquire a 3rd overall pick three years from his draft year. I think he pots 20 goals and 45 points next year. 

No offence man, but his ceiling is nowhere close to Scheifele, hes just not even remotely close the same type of player. 
 

20 goals is a bit of a stretch imho.. he hasnt shown that type of lethalness and he is going to be buried behind a lot of good players in Carolina. I could see 15goals tops.

[Bure_Pavel]

3 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

No offence man, but his ceiling is nowhere close to Scheifele, hes just not even remotely close the same type of player. 
 

20 goals is a bit of a stretch imho.. he hasnt shown that type of lethalness and he is going to be buried behind a lot of good players in Carolina. I could see 15goals tops.

Either way Montreal got destroyed by Carolina, and their team is likely forced into a rebuild in the next two years after missing the playoff this season and next. 

[Alflives]

4 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

No offence man, but his ceiling is nowhere close to Scheifele, hes just not even remotely close the same type of player. 
 

20 goals is a bit of a stretch imho.. he hasnt shown that type of lethalness and he is going to be buried behind a lot of good players in Carolina. I could see 15goals tops.

Bergevin pretty much traded JK for Dvorak,  and paid swapping the 12 OA pick for the 24 OA pick.  So he went backwards in player, and paid the price of dropping 12 spots in round one to do it!  

[Alflives]

1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Either way Montreal got destroyed by Carolina, and their team is likely forced into a rebuild in the next two years after missing the playoff this season and next. 

Bergevin made a mistake losing JK; that's obvious.  Then he magnifies the mistake by giving up his own first rounder (likely 12OA) for Dvorak.  And the draft is in Montreal.  For a team that needs to get younger, and should be rebuilding, that move just adds to why this is the worst off season in Hab's history.  

[JM_]

26 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

Yea its definitely complex to break it all down. Not saying that JK hurt possession numbers, but he certainly didnt improve CORSI. So its not like he was a effective positively or negatively. He’s kinda just there.
Montreal’s low scoring game was middle of the league with 158goals with a 2.82GF/GP almost 3 goals per game is pretty decent considering the highest gp/g was Colorado with 3.52. 
Carolina had only scored 17 more goals than the Canadiens…. Kotkaniemi‘s 5 goals isnt going to be noticed at all…. Im sure he will hit 10-15 goals this season, but I just dont see him making a massive impact. He is going to be buried behind Aho and Staal

I would think the idea would be for him to replace Stall in 2 years, maybe less if its a spectacular success. 

 

I'd be really interested in seeing the calculation Carolina made in this, the revenge story is nice but thats not what's driving this.

 

For the Canucks I would have been annoyed to see this move by Jim for JK, but I it was for a young RHD like Cernak I'd be all-in. 

[knucklehead91]

1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Either way Montreal got destroyed by Carolina, and their team is likely forced into a rebuild in the next two years after missing the playoff this season and next. 

I’d say that thanks to the offersheet compensation Montreal was able to turn a bad situation into a bit of a positive. They lost a struggling young centre whos development didnt seem to be progressing and then took their pick and got a pretty good player in Dvorak and in the end, they still have a 1st round pick. Sure its lower in the 1st round, but there is no guarantees in the draft.

I totally agree that Montreal is heading for a rebuild, I’ve said it in the past and even during the playoffs I said this was their one and only crack at a cup and likely Price and Weber will never get another sniff at a cup appearance

[Bure_Pavel]

6 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

I’d say that thanks to the offersheet compensation Montreal was able to turn a bad situation into a bit of a positive. They lost a struggling young centre whos development didnt seem to be progressing and then took their pick and got a pretty good player in Dvorak and in the end, they still have a 1st round pick. Sure its lower in the 1st round, but there is no guarantees in the draft.

I totally agree that Montreal is heading for a rebuild, I’ve said it in the past and even during the playoffs I said this was their one and only crack at a cup and likely Price and Weber will never get another sniff at a cup appearance

The Canadiens now need another legit top 6 center, and the only way to get one is usually a top 15 pick and 5 years of development which they wont have, or trade the sun and the moon for one. 

[knucklehead91]

6 minutes ago, Alflives said:

Bergevin pretty much traded JK for Dvorak,  and paid swapping the 12 OA pick for the 24 OA pick.  So he went backwards in player, and paid the price of dropping 12 spots in round one to do it!  

But he got the better player in the trade did he not? AAAND still has a 1st round pick. So he didnt get entirely bent over. Took a bit of a bust of a 3rd overall, traded him for a much better young C in Dvorak who is also pretty strong in the faceoff circle. There is no guarantee that the 12th will turn into an impactful player at all, much like how a 3rd overall is looking more like a bust than a promise.

[Alflives]

11 minutes ago, JM_ said:

I would think the idea would be for him to replace Stall in 2 years, maybe less if its a spectacular success. 

 

I'd be really interested in seeing the calculation Carolina made in this, the revenge story is nice but thats not what's driving this.

 

For the Canucks I would have been annoyed to see this move by Jim for JK, but I it was for a young RHD like Cernak I'd be all-in. 

Yup.  JK would is the second best center on the Habs, and was going to take on a lot of the hard minutes Danault did.  Here, JK would be behind Petey, Bo, and Miller.  There's really no place for JK in our lineup.  On the Canes they will have JK play wing, and move to (like you say) taking over Stall's role.  

[qwijibo]

3 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The Canadiens now need another legit top 6 center, and the only way to get one is usually a top 15 pick and 5 years of development which they wont have, or trade the sun and the moon for one. 

They have Suzuki and Dvorak.  They’re fine. 

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

But he got the better player in the trade did he not? AAAND still has a 1st round pick. So he didnt get entirely bent over. Took a bit of a bust of a 3rd overall, traded him for a much better young C in Dvorak who is also pretty strong in the faceoff circle. There is no guarantee that the 12th will turn into an impactful player at all, much like how a 3rd overall is looking more like a bust than a promise.

It's going  to be funny as hell watching the Hab fans go nuts at how pillow soft Dvorak is.  JK plays with bite. That's going to be greatly missed.

[Bure_Pavel]

9 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

They have Suzuki and Dvorak.  They’re fine. 

Dvorak's a third line center.

[qwijibo]

6 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Dvorak's a third line center.

Here’s where your argument fails. You make a big deal about how screwed Montreal is after losing Kotkaniemi (who would have been their 2C). But Dvorak is clearly a better C right now than Kotkaniemi. So which is it? Are they screwed because they lost 3C Kotkaniemi or because they have Dvorak? 

[Alflives]

20 minutes ago, Bure_Pavel said:

Dvorak's a third line center.

And Dvorak is easy to play against.  JK is a hard player to play against.  Way better for the role needed after Danault left. 

[Bure_Pavel]

13 minutes ago, qwijibo said:

Here’s where your argument fails. You make a big deal about how screwed Montreal is after losing Kotkaniemi (who would have been their 2C). But Dvorak is clearly a better C right now than Kotkaniemi. So which is it? Are they screwed because they lost 3C Kotkaniemi or because they have Dvorak? 

Kotkaniemi passes Dvorak as early as next season if not the season after. Dvorak is a bandaid fix, not the long term solution. 

[knucklehead91]

1 minute ago, Bure_Pavel said:

The Canadiens now need another legit top 6 center, and the only way to get one is usually a top 15 pick and 5 years of development which they wont have, or trade the sun and the moon for one. 

They need a top dman to fill in for Webers absence and Im not sure if they have a tendy in the pipes who will take over for Price in a few years.. 

Boeser, Konecny, Point, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Marchand, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Toffoli, Rakell, Saad, Karlsson, Trochek, Palat, Guentzel, Arvidsson, Aho, Garland, Cirelli, DeBrincat, Lucic, all say Hi. 
You can definitely draft a top 6 player outside of the top 15. Its not impossible and there has been tonnnnnns in the past 10 years that were drafted outside the top 15 and into the 2nd round that have taken over a team and become a massive star in the league

[qwijibo]

Just now, Bure_Pavel said:

Kotkaniemi passes Dvorak as early as next season if not the season after. Dvorak is a bandaid fix, not the long term solution. 

Or maybe he doesn’t. 

[Bure_Pavel]

1 minute ago, Alflives said:

And Dvorak is easy to play against.  JK is a hard player to play against.  Way better for the role needed after Danault left. 

Yeah I remember Petey and Kotkaneimi going hard against each other in their rookie season, when we played Montreal. Then I believe he injured Petey with a cheap shot, but they were both competing hard and looked like they would both become studs.  

[qwijibo]

1 minute ago, knucklehead91 said:

They need a top dman to fill in for Webers absence and Im not sure if they have a tendy in the pipes who will take over for Price in a few years.. 

Boeser, Konecny, Point, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Marchand, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Toffoli, Rakell, Saad, Karlsson, Trochek, Palat, Guentzel, Arvidsson, Aho, Garland, Cirelli, DeBrincat, Lucic, all say Hi. 
You can definitely draft a top 6 player outside of the top 15. Its not impossible and there has been tonnnnnns in the past 10 years that were drafted outside the top 15 and into the 2nd round that have taken over a team and become a massive star in the league

People are ignoring the fact that Weber struggled for much of the season. He turned it on in the playoffs but he wasn’t remotely their best defenceman during the season.  Petry was. Savard won’t replace the playoffs version of Weber but he easily replaces the regular season version 

 

  Also. They have Primeau in the system who looks to be a legit goaltending prospect 

[Bure_Pavel]

3 minutes ago, knucklehead91 said:

They need a top dman to fill in for Webers absence and Im not sure if they have a tendy in the pipes who will take over for Price in a few years.. 

Boeser, Konecny, Point, Kucherov, Pastrnak, Marchand, Tarasenko, Kuznetsov, Toffoli, Rakell, Saad, Karlsson, Trochek, Palat, Guentzel, Arvidsson, Aho, Garland, Cirelli, DeBrincat, Lucic, all say Hi. 
You can definitely draft a top 6 player outside of the top 15. Its not impossible and there has been tonnnnnns in the past 10 years that were drafted outside the top 15 and into the 2nd round that have taken over a team and become a massive star in the league

I said Center, pretty much every player listed is a winger, there are exception but it is really had to get a legit top 6 center with size unless you use those very high picks.