[PGT] Vancouver Canucks at Detroit Red Wings | Oct. 16, 2021

[mikeyman109]

Just now, tas said:

I think in that garland case they had to call the penalty in the first place in order to review it. if they didn't call a penalty originally, they wouldn't have the option of reviewing it. if it HAD been a blatant elbow to the head, that would have been a big miss. they were covering their butts and leaving their options open. 

Yes they were covering their butts. But they missed the call completely.

[McBackup]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

When did the Canucks play in the East?

 

And just to clear some things up - every year a schedule is made and some math guy adds up the overall travel miles.   Not once (ok maybe one year but i can't find it anyways) has Vancouver travelled the most - it's usually a CALI or believe it or not, an Alberta team, or COL or CHI even.   Go check it out.  For example, last year it was EDM who did the most miles in our division.   In 2017-2018 we ranked 7th.     Overall from top to bottom, the teams that are further apart OR have the worst schedule, travel about 15,000 more miles - or 30% or so more.    Maybe it's an issue but it is what it is.    TB travels about 3-5000 miles less then we do that's it.   CHI and LA fly about the same as we do, sometimes more sometimes less.   Only PIT (who is one of the least travelled teams) has won a cup the last decade or so.  St Louis, 1.5-3 less then us very close to where we are.   Boston right in the middle. 

When they first came in the league. The rest of your post is irrelevant to the point I was making.

[stawns]

Just now, mikeyman109 said:

Bolded is the point exactly

But you're way overstating how much that happens and often it is dictated by the flow of the game.  A call near the end of a game where one team is down a goal, like Van-Philly, might seem like a makeup call but is more likely the effect of one team (the team trying to tie it) pressing hard and the other team on the defense.  When the pressure is on teams inevitably become desperate and make desperate plats to hang on and that's often when you get calls that seem like makeup calls.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen and it certainly did in eras gone by, but I don't think it happens very often anymore

 

[mikeyman109]

Just now, McBackup said:

When they first came in the league. The rest of your post is irrelevant to the point I was making.

Just look back at the 94 finals and the travel in the playoffs, the Canucks had traveled 24000 kms and the rangers something like 200

[tas]

4 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

I don't think it's about calling every single infraction. To me it means, setting a league standard and calling it consistently, which will likely ever happen. 

it won't happen because it's impossible. it's either call everything or leave it open to judgment, there is no other option. 

[mikeyman109]

1 minute ago, stawns said:

But you're way overstating how much that happens and often it is dictated by the flow of the game.  A call near the end of a game where one team is down a goal, like Van-Philly, might seem like a makeup call but is more likely the effect of one team (the team trying to tie it) pressing hard and the other team on the defense.  When the pressure is on teams inevitably become desperate and make desperate plats to hang on and that's often when you get calls that seem like makeup calls.

 

I'm not saying it doesn't happen and it certainly did in eras gone by, but I don't think it happens very often anymore

 

I dont think its overstated at all. I have seen way too many even up calls the last 50 years to think it doesnt happen and regularly.the eye test shows you that. Sometimes one team deserves a lot more power plays than the other team based on the play.

[tas]

10 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

Yes they were covering their butts. But they missed the call completely.

while I agree that you could easily get away with calling nothing on that play, there's also an argument to be made that garland directed his body towards zadina resulting in an illegal check to the head worthy of a 2 minute minor. it doesn't matter that it was a reverse hit (it's still a hit) and it doesn't matter that it was garland's back instead of a shoulder or elbow. he moved his body towards zadina and the primary point of contact was zadina's head. 

Edited October 17, 2021 by tas

[mikeyman109]

Just now, tas said:

while I agree that you could easily get away with calling nothing on that play, there's also an argument to be made that garland directed his body towards zadina resulting in an illegal check to the head worthy of a 2 minute minor. it doesn't matter that it was a reverse hit (it's still a bit) and it doesn't matter that it was garland's back instead of a shoulder or elbow. he moved his body towards zadina and the primary point of contact was zadina's head. 

I agree he backed into Zadina knowing the hit was coming but he cant see where Zadinas head is. This is why i was so upset about the major penalty. Bad call, reversed on review, probably shouldnt have been a penatly on any player but this was based on trying to keep a lid on a very passionate game. If Zadina wasnt falling into Garlands back nothing gets called here.

[stawns]

13 minutes ago, BarnBurner said:

I don't think it's about calling every single infraction. To me it means, setting a league standard and calling it consistently, which will likely ever happen. 

Isn't that what they do already?  What you don't like is that refs are not all exactly the same. One ref sees it one way, one ref sees it another. 

 

There will never be a resolution for that issue

 

[tas]

4 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

I agree he backed into Zadina knowing the hit was coming but he cant see where Zadinas head is. This is why i was so upset about the major penalty. Bad call, reversed on review, probably shouldnt have been a penatly on any player but this was based on trying to keep a lid on a very passionate game. If Zadina wasnt falling into Garlands back nothing gets called here.

if i close my eyes while driving i can't see where the pedestrians are. 

 

if you make a hit, including a reverse hit, the onus is on you to be in control of the situation. 

[AlwaysACanuckFan]

1 hour ago, Ghostsof1915 said:

I really hope we have some meat and potatoes players in the later rounds we can develop. 

I also hope Lammikko takes over for some of the duds we have on the forward lines.

Especially when Boeser is back.

I like Rathbone on the offence he provides, but he needs work on defending. 

Maybe Juulsen, Woo, Hamonic or even Bowey moves up to the big team.

 

Who is handling the PK coaching duties? It's horrible. 

 

Their pp let them down as well, going 0-3. 3-12 so far this season. 

[tas]

3 minutes ago, AlwaysACanuckFan said:

Their pp let them down as well, going 0-3. 3-12 so far this season. 

that percentage would have been top 3 in the league last season ...

[-DLC-]

1 hour ago, stawns said:

What people seem to forget is that officials are not AI, tyey are individual people with individual perspectives.  Of course there's no consistency, with that many different people how could there be?  I like that different refs call different games, it adds another layer of complexity to an already complex sport.  It'd be pretty damn boring if every game were called exactly the same

I'm talking within a game...same refs applying their set of rules differently.  

 

I don't think it would be "boring" to have the rules evenly applied.  As a matter of fact, it gets boring to have them not distributed fairly/evenly.  Here we go again crap.

 

But it is what it is.  Greiss was the difference in this game and I accept the loss.  Just not the lousy officiating, no matter what reasons excuses are offered.  They're professional level/top tier and the expectation is that they follow the rulebook (not their in game assessment).

 

With that, I add that I'm more satisfied overall this year than previous years.  We're getting there.

 

The dangerous aspect of the game won't be addressed UNTIL consistent reffing is.  Evening things out means you're allowing stuff to happen and that escalates.

[stawns]

1 minute ago, -DLC- said:

I'm talking within a game...same refs applying their set of rules differently.

 

I don't think it would be "boring" to have the rules evenly applied.  As a matter of fact, it gets boring to have them not distributed fairly/evenly.  Here we go again crap.

 

But it is what it is.  Greiss was the difference in this game and I accept the loss.  Just not the lousy officiating, no matter what reasons excuses are offered.  They're professional level/top tier and the expectation is that they follow the rulebook (not their in game assessment).

I actually thought it was a decently reffed game.  Most of the game played 5v5 was a nice change and resulted in a pretty exciting game.

[mikeyman109]

15 minutes ago, tas said:

if i close my eyes while driving i can't see where the pedestrians are. 

 

if you make a hit, including a reverse hit, the onus is on you to be in control of the situation. 

I dont think these two situations are the same at all. If you are driving you have  to be in control of the car but if someone jumps out in front of you and you try to stop but they get hurt you rarely get charged.

[Nucker 67]

DET was a lot better than I gave them credit for. I thought this would be an easy Canucks win. I predicted a 6-1 victory lol

 

Yes, it was a back-to-back. but I didn't think Miller or Pettersson had a very good game. Those guys need to be better every game. The turnovers. Miller couldn't even make a pass.   Garland had another very strong game. Getting Boeser back will help. Must win in BUF.

[-DLC-]

2 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

I dont think these two situations are the same at all. If you are driving you have  to be in control of the car but if someone jumps out in front of you and you try to stop but they get hurt you rarely get charged.

Also...we're talking player on player (car on car) NOT car running down a pedestrian with eyes closed.

 

Unless your eyes are in the back of your head, you're rarely blamed if someone runs in to the back of you in a car vs car situation.  "Following too close/be aware".

 

[mikeyman109]

3 minutes ago, -DLC- said:

Also...we're talking player on player (car on car) NOT car running down a pedestrian with eyes closed.

 

Unless your eyes are in the back of your head, you're rarely blamed if someone runs in to the back of you in a car vs car situation.  "Following too close/be aware".

 

Regardless I appreciate Stawns opinion but its frustrating to some of us to see the game manipulated. Its much more entertaining in my opinion when they let the teams play and call only what needs to be called. I prefer a game where there is less power plays and the Referees are invisible.

Edited October 17, 2021 by mikeyman109

[IBatch]

42 minutes ago, McBackup said:

When they first came in the league. The rest of your post is irrelevant to the point I was making.

Gotcha.  Wasn't sure what you were inferring, seemed to be that we get boned with travel time.   Geographically the league takes steps every year to mitigate where our team is located - if they didn't then we'd be stuck with the most travel time, which we don't really.   That was my point - i didn't read back in the thread far enough to get what the point was so sorry if i assumed that wasn't your point. 

[tas]

10 minutes ago, mikeyman109 said:

I dont think these two situations are the same at all. If you are driving you have  to be in control of the car but if someone jumps out in front of you and you try to stop but they get hurt you rarely get charged.

but that's not what happened. garland hit him deliberately, and as you pointed out, wrecklessly.