[Proposal] JT Miller to Florida

[HKSR]

Panthers acquire:

JT Miller

 

Canucks acquire:

Anton Lundell

Patric Hornqvist

2023 1st Round Pick (Panthers don't have a 1st in 2022)

 

 

Why the Panthers do this:

- they are clearly in WIN NOW mode.  Lundell is great, but adding JT Miller gives them even more offensive punch up front, not to mention his leadership, gritty play, and most importantly his 53.5% Faceoff %.  The Panthers only have ONE centre over 50% on the dot. 

- JT Miller gives the Panthers 2 solid runs at the Cup before Huberdeau's contract is due for a raise.

- Moving Lundell also frees up space for Luostarinen to move into 3C which he is more than ready for, which in turn provides space to get Acciari back into the lineup once healed up (Acciari is 1 year removed from a 20 goal season and is also 50%+ on the faceoff dot). 

- JT Miller would likely extend with the Panthers for under $8M AAV simply due to the tax savings in that state.  Keeping a prime JT Miller in their lineup for say $7M AAV would be huge.

 

Why the Canucks do this:

- Lundell has a very bright future ahead of him.  Likely will be a solid 2C, so would not create any massive holes in the Canucks forward group.

- Lundell is already on pace for 55pts and 21 goals this season as a 20 year old.

- Hornqvist is a cap dump from the Panthers, but his contract ends at the same time as Miller which allows the Canucks to extend Boeser and keep the core together long term.

- Hornqvist isn't all bad as he's typically a net front presence, which means no more Chiasson on PPs, he's also effective on a 4th line which means Motte could likely be moved.

- 1st round pick is self explanatory... gives the Canucks two 1st round picks in 2023.

 

[Tank4Bedard]

I WOULD DO IT IN A HEART BEAT. But doubt the panthers want to give up Lundell. 

 

I would even consider Lundell + Hornqist (cap dump) + 2nd rounder. 

Edited January 18, 2022 by DontMessMe

[Alflives]

This is a great deal for us.  Even is it's Miller for Lundell.  

[HKSR]

6 minutes ago, DontMessMe said:

I WOULD DO IT IN A HEART BEAT. But doubt the panthers want to give up Lundell. 

 

I would even consider Lundell + Hornqist (cap dump) + 2nd rounder. 

Lundell is a fantastic player, but as of right now, Miller would bring way more to the Panthers, especially in a playoff battle against a team like Tampa Bay.

[Fanuck]

If JR decides to trade Miller - I'd prefer a legit top 2 defence prospect and/or a top young defenceman on an ELC - the extras could be whatever - but a young top 2 defenceman is a must in my view.  We've got virtually no depth at that position other than Rathbone/Woo and there's no guarantee either of them even become regulars.  That is the one position, save for Huggy, that JB sadly neglected.  

[Ilya Mikheyev]

Not a bad proposal but IMO FLA says no.

 

Hornqvist is more valued than cap dump to Florida - he fits in well, is still scoring at a .5 clip and was one of their best playoff performers last year. Other than Jumbo he's one of the few locker room guys whose had playoff success. IMO he's an asset to them for a playoff run.

 

Anton Lundell is definitely a player to look at to replace Miller at C, but I don't know how much FLA considers him only the future and not a strong C already. He's playing 18 mins most nights on a dominant team, which is probably roughly the amount that Miller would slot in for. Miller would bring a more abrasive game and more 'playoff style' hockey, but I don't know if that'd be worth the trade off for FLA.

[JM_]

4 minutes ago, HKSR said:

Lundell is a fantastic player, but as of right now, Miller would bring way more to the Panthers, especially in a playoff battle against a team like Tampa Bay.

interesting deal, but I think we could get more. The 1st will be pretty much a 2nd rounder and won't be in our system for another year. I also don't like that additional year of Hornqvist. 

 

The main piece is good, but I think we can get more out of NYR. 

 

Instead of the picks, I think I'd ask for Tippett as well if there's competition with NYR, and maybe others, in a bit of a bidding war. 

[Devron]

Lundell is going to be star in the league

[philtbc829]

10 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

If JR decides to trade Miller - I'd prefer a legit top 2 defence prospect and/or a top young defenceman on an ELC - the extras could be whatever - but a young top 2 defenceman is a must in my view.  We've got virtually no depth at that position other than Rathbone/Woo and there's no guarantee either of them even become regulars.  That is the one position, save for Huggy, that JB sadly neglected.  

I agree we need more D men...but I also think Florida would not go for this deal

[HKSR]

1 minute ago, JM_ said:

interesting deal, but I think we could get more. The 1st will be pretty much a 2nd rounder and won't be in our system for another year. I also don't like that additional year of Hornqvist. 

 

The main piece is good, but I think we can get more out of NYR. 

 

Instead of the picks, I think I'd ask for Tippett as well if there's competition with NYR, and maybe others, in a bit of a bidding war. 

I don't think you'll find a player of Lundell's calibre out of NY in the sense that the player is already producing in the NHL at a Top 6 level while only being 20 years old.  This is an NHL proven young stud.  Lafreniere, Kaako, Chytil are all guys that have yet to get anywhere close to 20 goals and 55 points.  Schneider hasn't even stepped foot into the NHL yet.

 

I thought about Tippett too... If I were to modify the trade a bit, I'd like to see:

 

To VAN:

Lundell

Tippett

Hornqvist

2nd Round Pick

 

To FLA:

JT Miller

Motte

 

[HKSR]

15 minutes ago, Fanuck said:

If JR decides to trade Miller - I'd prefer a legit top 2 defence prospect and/or a top young defenceman on an ELC - the extras could be whatever - but a young top 2 defenceman is a must in my view.  We've got virtually no depth at that position other than Rathbone/Woo and there's no guarantee either of them even become regulars.  That is the one position, save for Huggy, that JB sadly neglected.  

Would be nice, but acquiring a top 2 young defenceman is almost impossible.  If a team has one, why would they trade him?  If he's a prospect, we don't know if he'll be a top 2D... that's a LOT of risk when we're talking about moving a player that is among the top scorers in the entire NHL.

[khay]

This seems like a good deal for us. But Florida likely says no.

 

Hornqvist still brings a lot of value when he is in the lineup. He will be especially useful in the playoffs.

 

Lundell is already putting up 2C numbers and doing fine for them. Miller is an upgrade now but not for long.

 

Another player from 2020 draft that has impressed me is Seth Jarvis from the Canes.

 

He is a right hand shot as well. I wonder if Hurricanes would entertain a trade involving Miller + Motte for Jarvis + draft pick + (cap dump) Kotkaniemi  

 

Edited: Adding Motte to make the numbers work out better.

Edited January 18, 2022 by khay

[JM_]

1 minute ago, HKSR said:

I don't think you'll find a player of Lundell's calibre out of NY in the sense that the player is already producing in the NHL at a Top 6 level while only being 20 years old.  This is an NHL proven young stud.  Lafreniere, Kaako, Chytil are all guys that have yet to get anywhere close to 20 goals and 55 points.  Schneider hasn't even stepped foot into the NHL yet.

 

I thought about Tippett too... If I were to modify the trade a bit, I'd like to see:

 

To VAN:

Lundell

Tippett

Hornqvist

2nd Round Pick

 

To FLA:

JT Miller

Motte

 

now that one I'd be pretty happy over. 

 

We can't fix all problems with Miller (C and D) but having Petey, Garland, Boeser, Lundell, Podkolzin, Bo in our top 6 would be very nice, with Tippet on the 3rd line with Hornqvist looks great to me. 

 

We need to draft  a RHD but thats OK. 

 

[Tank4Bedard]

25 minutes ago, Teemu Selänne said:

Not a bad proposal but IMO FLA says no.

 

Hornqvist is more valued than cap dump to Florida - he fits in well, is still scoring at a .5 clip and was one of their best playoff performers last year. Other than Jumbo he's one of the few locker room guys whose had playoff success. IMO he's an asset to them for a playoff run.

 

Anton Lundell is definitely a player to look at to replace Miller at C, but I don't know how much FLA considers him only the future and not a strong C already. He's playing 18 mins most nights on a dominant team, which is probably roughly the amount that Miller would slot in for. Miller would bring a more abrasive game and more 'playoff style' hockey, but I don't know if that'd be worth the trade off for FLA.

I would also do Miller (50% retained) for Lundell + cap dump. I am super high on Lundell. 

[HKSR]

18 minutes ago, philtbc829 said:

I agree we need more D men...but I also think Florida would not go for this deal

 

10 minutes ago, khay said:

This seems like a good deal for us. But Florida likely says no.

 

Hornqvist still brings a lot of value when he is in the lineup. He will be especially useful in the playoffs.

 

Lundell is already putting up 2C numbers and doing fine for them. Miller is an upgrade now but not for long.

 

Another player from 2020 draft that has impressed me is Seth Jarvis from the Canes.

 

He is a right hand shot as well. I wonder if Hurricanes would entertain a trade involving Miller + Motte for Jarvis + draft pick + (cap dump) Kotkaniemi  

 

Edited: Adding Motte to make the numbers work out better.

Any particular reason why you think Florida would say no?  JT Miller has 38pts in 38 games playing on a Canucks team that until recently was anemic on offence.  Had he been on the Panthers all year playing with guys like Huberdeau and Barkov, I bet Miller would have 45pts in 38 games right now. 

 

I don't think it has been any more clear that the Panthers are in win now mode.  They need playoff-type warriors.  They need to be able to win more faceoffs.  They need more grit.  JT Miller brings all of that.  Anyways, like my initial post says, there are a lot of reasons this works out for the Panthers:

 

- they are clearly in WIN NOW mode.  Lundell is great, but adding JT Miller gives them even more offensive punch up front, not to mention his leadership, gritty play, and most importantly his 53.5% Faceoff %.  The Panthers only have ONE centre over 50% on the dot. 

 

- JT Miller gives the Panthers 2 solid runs at the Cup before Huberdeau's contract is due for a raise.

 

- Moving Lundell also frees up space for Luostarinen to move into 3C which he is more than ready for, which in turn provides space to get Acciari back into the lineup once healed up (Acciari is 1 year removed from a 20 goal season and is also 50%+ on the faceoff dot). 

 

- JT Miller would likely extend with the Panthers for under $8M AAV simply due to the tax savings in that state.  Keeping a prime JT Miller in their lineup for say $7M AAV would be huge.

[HKSR]

14 minutes ago, JM_ said:

now that one I'd be pretty happy over. 

 

We can't fix all problems with Miller (C and D) but having Petey, Garland, Boeser, Lundell, Podkolzin, Bo in our top 6 would be very nice, with Tippet on the 3rd line with Hornqvist looks great to me. 

 

We need to draft  a RHD but thats OK. 

 

Yeah I don't think JT Miller or Brock Boeser will bring back an NHL proven young RHD.  Those types of defencemen need to be drafted.  In the rare case one becomes available, they cost a fortune to acquire.

[HKSR]

Here are the top 30 RHD (in terms of scoring) in the entire league aged 25 or less:

 

https://www.capfriendly.com/browse/active/2022/points/all/defense/all/desc/right?limits=age-15-25

 

Who could you realistically acquire for JT Miller that would be:

1. Worthwhile for the Canucks

2. Available from the other team

 

We need to face reality, we are not gonna acquire a top end, young, NHL proven RHD for JT Miller or Brock Boeser.  We will need to draft one.

[khay]

6 minutes ago, HKSR said:

 

Any particular reason why you think Florida would say no?  JT Miller has 38pts in 38 games playing on a Canucks team that until recently was anemic on offence.  Had he been on the Panthers all year playing with guys like Huberdeau and Barkov, I bet Miller would have 45pts in 38 games right now. 

 

I don't think it has been any more clear that the Panthers are in win now mode.  They need playoff-type warriors.  They need to be able to win more faceoffs.  They need more grit.  JT Miller brings all of that.  Anyways, like my initial post says, there are a lot of reasons this works out for the Panthers:

 

- they are clearly in WIN NOW mode.  Lundell is great, but adding JT Miller gives them even more offensive punch up front, not to mention his leadership, gritty play, and most importantly his 53.5% Faceoff %.  The Panthers only have ONE centre over 50% on the dot. 

 

- JT Miller gives the Panthers 2 solid runs at the Cup before Huberdeau's contract is due for a raise.

 

- Moving Lundell also frees up space for Luostarinen to move into 3C which he is more than ready for, which in turn provides space to get Acciari back into the lineup once healed up (Acciari is 1 year removed from a 20 goal season and is also 50%+ on the faceoff dot). 

 

- JT Miller would likely extend with the Panthers for under $8M AAV simply due to the tax savings in that state.  Keeping a prime JT Miller in their lineup for say $7M AAV would be huge.

Reason 1. Lundell at 20 is putting up 2C number. JT's current level of production is anything but guaranteed as he walks into his 30s whereas Lundell could put up even bigger number and has 10 years before he hits 30.

 

Reason 2. Also there is team chemistry aspect. JT won't get prime PP time and will not be the primary puck handler on the Panthers team. He likely will not put up the numbers that he is for us on the Panthers team. Lundell on the other hand has fit in well and already proven to have good chemistry with Huberdeau. 

 

Reason 3. JT will be a UFA and maybe he will re-sign there, maybe he won't. Florida gets a young cost controlled player in Lundell. They could easily re-sign Lundell to half of JT's salary, which would allow them to fit in another player adding to the depth.

 

I'd say Panthers say yes to this offer if they want to go all-in this year and the next year and are prepared to face the consequences if they don't win it all. I'm not arguing that JT sucks. They could use a player like JT, especially in the playoffs.

 

And again, I like this deal for us if it happens.

[HKSR]

3 minutes ago, khay said:

Reason 1. Lundell at 20 is putting up 2C number. JT's current level of production is anything but guaranteed as he walks into his 30s whereas Lundell could put up even bigger number and has 10 years before he hits 30.

 

Reason 2. Also there is team chemistry aspect. JT won't get prime PP time and will not be the primary puck handler on the Panthers team. He likely will not put up the numbers that he is for us on the Panthers team. Lundell on the other hand has fit in well and already proven to have good chemistry with Huberdeau. 

 

Reason 3. JT will be a UFA and maybe he will re-sign there, maybe he won't. Florida gets a young cost controlled player in Lundell. They could easily re-sign Lundell to half of JT's salary, which would allow them to fit in another player adding to the depth.

 

I'd say Panthers say yes to this offer if they want to go all-in this year and the next year and are prepared to face the consequences if they don't win it all. I'm not arguing that JT sucks. They could use a player like JT, especially in the playoffs.

 

And again, I like this deal for us if it happens.

Thanks for the detailed response.

 

I guess I'd argue that Florida is "ALL IN" now.  Their window is open now.  Huberdeau and Weeger are 28.  Barkov, Reinhart, Verhaeghe, Ekblad, Bennett, Duclair, Montour are all 25 or 26 years old.  Add JT Miller at 28 into that group and it makes a ton of sense.

 

Lundell is great, don't get me wrong... but JT Miller simply brings way more to the table right here, right now. 

 

Not sure why JT Miller couldn't replace Duclair on their 1st PP unit.  Having Huberdeau, Barkov, and Miller on that unit would be nuts.

 

I also see JT Miller re-signing with them for sure.  Like I said, the tax savings alone would mean he could sign a $7M or $7.5M deal that is like the equivalent of an $8.5M or $9M deal in Vancouver.

 

Lastly, if there is one weakness in their lineup, it is faceoffs.  They are under 50% overall.  They need to win more faceoffs if they want to succeed in the playoffs.  I guarantee their offence will dry up a bit come playoff time.  That's perfectly normal.  That's when the other aspects of their game will matter.  That's when JT Miller will shine.

[Bure1010]

1 hour ago, HKSR said:

Panthers acquire:

JT Miller

 

Canucks acquire:

Anton Lundell

Patric Hornqvist

2023 1st Round Pick (Panthers don't have a 1st in 2022)

 

 

Why the Panthers do this:

- they are clearly in WIN NOW mode.  Lundell is great, but adding JT Miller gives them even more offensive punch up front, not to mention his leadership, gritty play, and most importantly his 53.5% Faceoff %.  The Panthers only have ONE centre over 50% on the dot. 

- JT Miller gives the Panthers 2 solid runs at the Cup before Huberdeau's contract is due for a raise.

- Moving Lundell also frees up space for Luostarinen to move into 3C which he is more than ready for, which in turn provides space to get Acciari back into the lineup once healed up (Acciari is 1 year removed from a 20 goal season and is also 50%+ on the faceoff dot). 

- JT Miller would likely extend with the Panthers for under $8M AAV simply due to the tax savings in that state.  Keeping a prime JT Miller in their lineup for say $7M AAV would be huge.

 

Why the Canucks do this:

- Lundell has a very bright future ahead of him.  Likely will be a solid 2C, so would not create any massive holes in the Canucks forward group.

- Lundell is already on pace for 55pts and 21 goals this season as a 20 year old.

- Hornqvist is a cap dump from the Panthers, but his contract ends at the same time as Miller which allows the Canucks to extend Boeser and keep the core together long term.

- Hornqvist isn't all bad as he's typically a net front presence, which means no more Chiasson on PPs, he's also effective on a 4th line which means Motte could likely be moved.

- 1st round pick is self explanatory... gives the Canucks two 1st round picks in 2023.

 

Wow I was just thinking this exact move that’s funny. 
 

I could see Florida not doing it just for the fact Lundell reminds me so much of barkov. 
but I think it’s a great move for both teams.