Edit- Rick Tocchet Expected To Be Next Head Coach

[DSVII]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

I'm about to come destroy this and your whole opinion son.

 

You wanna walk this back before I hurt your feelings?

It's pointless man. He doesn’t believe in the value of draft position because Pastranak went 25th overall once. He fully expects Gillis picking 22nd to replicate what Benning did at the 5th pick because its as simple as that. 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by DSVII

[MystifyNCrucify]

Except there comes a point where you cant blame coaching anymore. 

 

The core gave up on Green and wouldnt play for him. Boudreau came in and “yay we are happy again we will play better now”. Now they are pouting again. 

 

Its like deja vu. 

[Dazzle]

5 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Ok again full stop because that's absolutely not fair.  

 

Gillis had one high draft pick.  He supplemented a stellar core with the best roll players in the league at the time.  It's clear now that he was mandated to continue to push and roll.

 

He had no development program due to the former canucks moose moving to the wolves on a loan program before Utica was created and that destroyed any possibility of a development program.

 

He made efforts to rebuild by all accounts and was trying before he was released.  He created practices and programs that have been adopted by the top teams in the league since he won his GM of the year award.

 

Since his release ten years ago this team has had one single honest playoff berth and has less in the tank than when Gillis left.b we gotta stop blaming him because he was the last successful manager this team had regardless of how it happened 

No, sorry, these are all excuses.

 

He had TWO high draft picks - one of which he acquired through the Schneider trade. The other was when he started. Hodgson and Horvat.

 

Of the other first round picks he had, they were either traded away or busted. Brendan Gaunce for example was a not so great 'safe' pick. The other was Jensen.

 

The Canucks started a farm team under Gillis, yes, but the draft picks that the Canucks had really didn't amount to anything, development or otherwise. Did any other players picked by Gillis pan out elsewhere? No. They were just bad picks, plain and simple.

 

Drafting and development failed spectacularly under Gillis. He himself admitted that his drafting department was

not done well. Why are we making excuses for this?

Is it because of the exciting playoff runs that we can ignore a near decade of bad scouting? The consequence of his tenure was that we have no young players left from his period. The excuses are that we were focussed on winning - but this doesn't mean we can miss out on 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th round picks, year after year. That's exactly what happened, minus Hutton and Connauton.

 

Now Horvat is soon to be traded.

 

Imagine if we had some developed players on this roster from his period - would we really need to sign UFAs? This is the failure I am talking about. The future was wrecked because of Gillis' inability to draft and develop.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Dazzle

[Dazzle]

28 minutes ago, DSVII said:

The devastation included a number 1 goalie that carried the team while Demko developed. A top 2 pairing shutdown RHD and the current captain that's scoring goals on pace with the likes of McD.

 

When we see the worst GMs and trades in the salary cap era in future articles. Benning will be on more lists. He has company with Chiarelli.

No, you are ignoring evidence.

 

When a GM fails to draft and develop for almost 6 or 7 years, those players that COULD have amounted to something should've been helping us out on this roster TODAY.

 

What ended up happening was that we took on vet players from other teams. In other words, there was no succession plan for the future.

Gillis made good moves for the playoffs - no one will dispute this - but when it came to creating his own team, he failed miserably.

[Dazzle]

26 minutes ago, DSVII said:

It's pointless man. He doesn’t believe in the value of draft position because Pastranak went 25th overall once. He fully expects Gillis picking 22nd to replicate what Benning did at the 5th pick because its as simple as that. 

 

It is not about the first round picks. It's the second, third, fourth and fifth round picks that Gillis routinely failed to capitalize on.

 

Forsling was a 5th round pick (different time period)

Edler was a 3rd round pick

Demko was a 2nd round pick

 

You don't just assume that the draft picks are junk because they're not a first round pick. We could've had some pretty good players in the later rounds, but drafting and development was CLEARLY an afterthought under Gillis.

[Warhippy]

2 hours ago, AnthonyG said:

Hahahahahahhahahahha try me bud.

Game on.  Tuck your delusions in because it's about to get very real son.

 

This is going to take a while so sit down because you're gonna need the time to process all the points you'll have to refute and to save up the energy to move the goalposts from your claims of Benning doing great things and Gillis not.

 

In June 1998 Brian Burke was hired to take over the team from the disastrous Keenan era.  The sour taste of Linden being stripped and summarily ejected was washed away by arguably one of the ballsiest draft day deals in history a year later.

 

Brian Burke successfully drafted from June 22 1998 to the end of the 2003 season prior to Nonis taking over 

 

1998:  Bryan Allen 4th, Artem Chubarov 31st and Jarko Rutuu 68th

1999:  Henrik and Daniel Sedin 2nd and 3rd

2001:  RJ Umberger 16th and Kevin Bieksa 151st

2003:  Ryan Kesler 23rd.

 

One could also argue he shared the 2004 draft with Dave Nonis which is considered arguably one of the best in Canucks history for game breaking late draft players with Hansen, Schneider and Edler (plus of course sudsy Mike Brown) but that's a Nonis win.

 

Under Burke, the biggest single pro trade to happen was the Bure trade in which the Canucks managed to get Jovanovski, side note to Schaefer for Salo while the single greatest draft day trade was of course the twins.  Under Burke, the Canucks managed some incredible success with the start of the and height of the WCE era making the playoffs in 4 of Burkes 5 technical years as GM of the Canucks organization while only making it out of the QF once.  Burke successfully drafted and developed 8 players that went on to play 200 games or more as well as of course the faces of the franchise and the defining core of Kesler Bieksa and the twins.  Burke had the Manitoba Moose as an affiliate AHL team for development

 

Burke: 5 years, 8 drafted players 200+ games.  4 playoff appearances.  1 division title.  Development program:  Manitoba Moose

 

Brian Burke was summarily let go at the start of the Aqualini era for David Nonis.  David Nonis was Brian Burkes hand in hand in almost everything.  Nonis did complete the Bertuzzi trade post incident that saw Luongo come to the Canucks.  The greatest NHL goaltender to ever sit for the organization.  He also oversaw the signing of Burrows in 2005/2006 from the affiliate Moose who became one of the greatest un-drafted stories in the league for the success he had.  Gillis had the Manitoba Moose as an AHL affiliate team for development

 

David Nonis successfully drafted from May 6th 2004 through the 2008 season prior to Gillis taking over 

 

2004:  Corey Schneider 26th, Alex Edler 91st, Mike Brown 159th, Jannik Hansen 287th.  Arguably one of the best late draft successes in team history

2005:  Luc Bourdon 10th** and Mason Raymond 51st

2006:  Michael Grabner 14th

 

David Nonis oversaw the end of the WCE era and tinkered a great deal trying to get the most out of the existing core while hoping the twins.  As GM Nonis missed the lockout year of course but in his 3 years made the playoffs once with 1 divisional title losing in the semi finals.

 

Nonis:  3 years*, 7 drafted players 200+ games.  1 playoff appearance.  1 division title.  Development program:  Manitoba Moose

 

This is where you will want to pay attention because it's kind of important.

 

Mike Gillis took over from Nonis April 23rd 2008 taking control of the team and inheriting his highest pick of his tenure at the 10 spot with Cody Hodgson.  Gillis quickly instituted some essential programs including sleep, program and fitness programs as well as training that have been adopted and adapted by some of the most successful teams in the league over the last 15 years such as the Capitals, Penguins, Blackhawks, Rangers, Maple Leafs, Lightning, Sharks. He also was in charge of the franchise when the affiliate Moose ceased to exist in their existing form moving to St Johns leaving the canucks from 2009 through 2011 without a true affiliate AHL team until a loan program with the then Chicago Wolves happened prior to the advent of the Utica Comets in 2013

 

Mike Gillis successfully drafted from April 23rd 2008 through 2013 prior to Benning taking over

 

2008:  Cody Hodgson 10th, 

2009:  Jordan Schroder 22nd, Kevin Connauton 83rd

2012:  Brendan Gaunce 26th, Ben Hutton 147th

2013:  Bo Horvat 9th

 

Gillis in 2008 took over a team with a core group of Burrows, Henrik and Daniel Sedin, Luongo, Kesler, Edler, Salo, Bieksa, Raymond and Mitchell.  Arguably the best core this franchise has ever seen comprised of pro trades and drafting starting back in 1999.  The most notable Gillis trades included getting Shane O'Brien, Keith Ballard, Andrew Alberts. Christian Ehrhoff, Chris Higgins, Maxime Lapierre, and of course Bo Horvat.  His most notable signings included Malhotra, Torres, Samuelsson, Tanev, Rome, Glass, Hamhuis and Garrison.  Barring Garrison the aforementioned signings became the group that with the existing core took the canucks to game 7 of the 2011 SCF and won back to back presidents trophies.

 

Gillis:  6 years, 5 drafted players 200+ games; 1 SCF finals, 2x presidents trophy, GM of the year, 2x conference titles, 5x division titles, 5x playoffs.  Development program:  Non-existent

 

Jim Benning took over from Gillis May 21st 2014 adopting an aging core and what was stated then as to be a quick retool of the team to stay competitive.  Everyone knew that there was going to be no significant change or movement of the team until the Sedins aged out, an unhappy Kesler issue and of course starting with the highest pick the team had owned since the Sedins were drafted in 1999.  Benning had a fledgling Utica Comets team to look forward to for development and adoption of new strategies for team building and bridging and things were in fact looking quite promising as Benning was considered the "architect and drafting guru" of the Boston bruins team that beat the Canucks in 2011.  Although as he took over so late, much like the previous GMs in Gillis and Nonis his first draft as previously was in question as amateur scouting already had their information in.

 

Jim Benning successfully drafted from May 21st 2014 through 2021

 

2014:  Jake Virtanen 6th, Jared McCann 24th, Thatcher Demko 36th, Gustav Forsling 126th

2015:  Brock Boeser 23rd, Adam Gaudette 149th

2017:  Elias Pettersson 5th

2018:  Quinn Hughes 7th, Nils Hoglander 40th*

2019:  Vasiliy Podkolzin 10th*

 

Jim Benning's tenure was marked by missed and blown assets.  Arguably some of the worst pro scouting in the entire league in his nearly 7 years as GM.  Poor trades and even more questionable signings culminating with the trade of the 9th OA pick ++ for a year of cap space for OEL and Garland.  In his tenure Benning traded a combination of our 1st 2nd and 3rd round picks 8 times.  In his tenure we were a cap team every single year but while holding an average draft slot in the top 10 had arguably the worst drafting and development record of any team/gm in the league.  His more notable trades include the Kesler trade to start his tenure, JT Miller in the middle and ending of course with OEL/Garland

 

Without mentioning his pro scouting where some of his memorable trades and "asset management.  Some of which include:

 

Baertschi for a 2nd (rasmus andersson)

Forsling for Clendenning

McCann 2nd and 4th for Gudbranson and 5th

Bonino, Clendenning and 2nd for Sutter and 3rd (3rd round pick which was in fact ours already, drafted Lockwood)

Kassin and 5th for Prust

Vanek for Motte and Jokinen

Dahlen for Karlsson (looks good)

Gudbranson for Pearson

Del Zotto for Schenn and 7th 

Schaller, Madden 2nd and 4th for Tofolli

 

Benning:  7 years, 7 drafted players 200+ games; 1 playoff appearance + 1 "covid bubble playoff appearance" Development program: Utica Comets/Abbotsford Heat

 

I sincerely have ZERO like ZERO idea how that is somehow a situation in which you can consider Benning a success and Gillis a failure as GM.  Benning's most successful draft was in fact 2014,. Forsling and McCann hit their 200 game metric for draft success with other teams after Benning essentially threw them away.  His pro scouting was as bad as it looks and he literally let some of the most valuable assets this team has had in terms of potential ROI walk for nothing.  His average draft position in the first round when he kept the pick was; if not taking 2014 in to account, 9th overall.  But, he traded his first round pick twice and one of those picks was 9th overall, Dylan Guenther.  Traded his 2nd round picks 4 times and his 3rd round picks twice.  He spent to within $500,000 of the cap in all but one of his years as GM and currently has left the Canucks with the 28th ranked prospect pool in the league with the 27th ranked defense.

 

You can harp on Gillis all you want.  His average draft position was 26th.  He added, by comparison in signings and trades players that pushed the then core over the top by comparison; direct comparison Benning added Poolman.  Dickinson (who he paid a higher pick to get rid of then he did to acquire and sign) with current buyout hits on Virtanen and Hotlby.

 

Now you want to gatekeep fandom by harping on me because i added an extra S in Kessler, suggest that adding role players was nothing but then ignore like TOTALLY ignore how Bennings first 3 years were spent adding role players to WHAT effect again?  Suggest that the luongo/markstrom trade was awful; yet lead to Bennings only actual year of success and self owned playoff win yet still claim that Benning did the hard work of drafting and developing by somehow lucking out with 2 of his only 5 top 10 picks in Hughes and Pettersson (when he wanted Glass over Pettersson by all accounts) but whiffed on Juolevi Virtanen*** and hey, why is nobody taking Kole Lind?

 

But then what do I know.  Even though I actually got to see Tanti, Smyl and Marc bloody Crawford on the ice in 86 taking it to the Flames in one of the most violent on ice games i've ever seen in a 4-5 ot loss; had front row seats to Linden Bure and Gino shattering the Flames 11-0 and have bled blue green black and orange my entire life I have NO idea what I am talking about and can't be a fan because I added a single extra S to Kesler's name.

 

But yes, please.  Do go on and "embarrass me" because I threatened to hurt your feelings by pointing out how laughable your claims of benning being better than Gillis for or doing more than Gillis had done for this Organization are.  

 

So.  Come on bud.  Refute any of that.  Go ahead.  You and or Dazzle at any point in time can come back and tell me how or why Gillis, a decade ago was a bad GM because he didn't draft or develop; and that benning was a good GM because he somehow did.  Do it without mentioning or factoring in draft position or who the Canucks AHL affiliate was at the time of their respective tenures.

 

Believe me.  I will absolutely wait for you to refute who built what; who drafted or signed whom that lead to success in which years for what reasons and I expect it to be fact based; not opinion based or suggesting somehow it isn't credible due to either spelling or punctuation.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Warhippy

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

It is not about the first round picks. It's the second, third, fourth and fifth round picks that Gillis routinely failed to capitalize on.

 

Forsling was a 5th round pick (different time period)

Edler was a 3rd round pick

Demko was a 2nd round pick

 

You don't just assume that the draft picks are junk because they're not a first round pick. We could've had some pretty good players in the later rounds, but drafting and development was CLEARLY an afterthought under Gillis.

Do tell me.  Who was our AHL affiliate under Gillis again?  What was or where was our development program focused and who was in control of it.

[Dazzle]

3 hours ago, Warhippy said:

Okay.

 

Did you really just say Benny did more great things than Gillis did? Gillis may have had a core that included a set of twins. A center right wing in Kessler. And a goaltender in Luongo. But he 100% added all of the depth and role players that made that team what it was. Because those pieces were in place as a core before Gillis took over.

 

Gillis added all the role players that bending never could and spent pick after pick after pick trying to acquire

 

To say that Benning did a better job or more things as a positive for this organization than Gillis is so farcical as to be a laugh. No wait, that's actually insulting not laughable. I do not know what world you are living in or on. But to suggest that Bening with one playoff entrance, one honest playoff entrance in almost a decade is better than Gillis who not only went to game 7 of the Stanley Cup finals but also never missed the playoffs until his final year held the division title. Title every year he was here barring that one year and holds two presidents trophies as well as a general manager of the year award is just so out to lunch. I have no concept of what world you are living in.

 

To break it down even more. Gillis after he took over only had one draft where he drafted higher than 23rd.  Why don't you tell me what the average draft position of a benning team was in comparison. The only things that are positive that Benin did for this team were Peterson and Hughes

 

In fact, if you take away 2014, the only thing Benning did that was good at drafting was basically managed to find a couple of players in the later rounds that he immediately let go to other teams. I have more than done the math on this and I have numerous threads about how shotty and poor. The actual development and drafting of this team has been since 2006 and Benning led the entire pack in terms of poor decision making and drafting. Especially when you factor in what his average draft position was.

 

Say he did good things for the future of this franchise is just beyond ridiculous. And I dare you to put a thread together detailing the positives that he did that have led to the success of this franchise. Because under his watch and his" stealth rebuild" we're actually looking at another rebuild that was on top of a rebuild that was part of a stealth rebuild.

You are focusing way too much on the playoff runs, which no one will object that he did a good job with. What you fail to assess is the price that the Canucks had to pay for his bad drafting and development

1 player (Horvat) out of 7 picks in 2013

1 player (Hutton) in 2012 out of 5 picks. Gaunce was a first round bust.

0 players out of 8 picks in 2011

0 players out of 5 picks in 2010

1 player (Connauton - never played for the Canucks) out of 7 picks in 2009. Schroeder was another first round bust.

1 player (Hodgson) out of 5 picks in 2008.

 

4 players out of 37 players picked

33 missed picks. Ouch.

 

11 percent success rate at the draft as a whole. Unacceptable.

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Dazzle

[Dazzle]

8 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

Do tell me.  Who was our AHL affiliate under Gillis again?  What was or where was our development program focused and who was in control of it.

I will re-post what I just wrote above:

 

1 player (Horvat) out of 7 picks in 2013

1 player (Hutton) in 2012 out of 5 picks. Gaunce was a first round bust.

0 players out of 8 picks in 2011

0 players out of 5 picks in 2010

1 player (Connauton - never played for the Canucks) out of 7 picks in 2009. Schroeder was another first round bust.

1 player (Hodgson) out of 5 picks in 2008.

 

33 missed picks out of 37 total picks.

 

If you miss that many picks, the team's future depth is SURELY going to be affected. This is what I have been underlining.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, Dazzle said:

You are focusing way too much on the playoff runs, which no one will object that he did a good job with. What you fail to assess is the price that the Canucks had to pay for his bad drafting and development

 

In 6 years, he drafted: Horvat (first round pick), Hodgson (first round pick), Connauton (3rd round pick, never played with Canucks), and Hutton (fifth round pick).

 

That's it.

 

1 player (Horvat) out of 7 picks in 2013

1 player (Hutton) in 2012 out of 5 picks. Gaunce was a first round bust.

0 players out of 8 picks in 2011

0 players out of 5 picks in 2010

1 player (Connauton - never played for the Canucks) out of 7 picks in 2009. Schroeder was another first round bust.

1 player (Hodgson) out of 5 picks in 2008.

 

4 players out of 33 players picked. Ouch.

 

 

 

Don't throw your shoulders out moving those goal posts.  You're ignoring literally EVERY SINGLE aspect of that post to focus on exactly one thing and one thing only.  The draft.

 

Remind me again of who drafted what successfully.

 

Because, without Burkes first year (Allan, Chubarov and Ruutu) he only had 5 total players successfully drafted that played more than 200 games in his 5 years as GM.  Nonis in his 3 full years as GM had 6 in 3 years while Gillis had 4 in his 6 years.   I won't mention Benning at all but will point out that only Burke and Gillis had any level of true Playoff success and Burke had a 4th, 2nd and 3rd overall pick he drafted to do it with while Gillis drafted on average 26th in the first round when he did draft.

 

By comparison what the ever loving hell has/had Benning done with a near decade of high draft picks?  To sit and blame Gillis for the state of this club is an utter joke.  It's been a near decade of excuses and it sounds as sad as Oilers fans claiming their gretzky cups

[Alflives]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

You are focusing way too much on the playoff runs, which no one will object that he did a good job with. What you fail to assess is the price that the Canucks had to pay for his bad drafting and development

1 player (Horvat) out of 7 picks in 2013

1 player (Hutton) in 2012 out of 5 picks. Gaunce was a first round bust.

0 players out of 8 picks in 2011

0 players out of 5 picks in 2010

1 player (Connauton - never played for the Canucks) out of 7 picks in 2009. Schroeder was another first round bust.

1 player (Hodgson) out of 5 picks in 2008.

 

4 players out of 37 players picked

33 missed picks. Ouch.

 

11 percent success rate at the draft as a whole. Unacceptable.

 

Considering our owner, what do you believe was the direction was that Gillis (like all our GMs since Aquilini bought th3 team) had to follow or get replaced?  Gillis did a great job!  But maybe Bennng could have done a good job too if our owner hadn’t insisted upon a foolish direction, when a proper r3build was obviously needed? 

[Dazzle]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Don't throw your shoulders out moving those goal posts.  You're ignoring literally EVERY SINGLE aspect of that post to focus on exactly one thing and one thing only.  The draft.

 

Remind me again of who drafted what successfully.

 

Because, without Burkes first year (Allan, Chubarov and Ruutu) he only had 5 total players successfully drafted that played more than 200 games in his 5 years as GM.  Nonis in his 3 full years as GM had 6 in 3 years while Gillis had 4 in his 6 years.   I won't mention Benning at all but will point out that only Burke and Gillis had any level of true Playoff success and Burke had a 4th, 2nd and 3rd overall pick he drafted to do it with while Gillis drafted on average 26th in the first round when he did draft.

 

By comparison what the ever loving hell has/had Benning done with a near decade of high draft picks?  To sit and blame Gillis for the state of this club is an utter joke.  It's been a near decade of excuses and it sounds as sad as Oilers fans claiming their gretzky cups

Burke and Nonis drafted the Sedins, Edler and Kesler.

 

Do we really need to expose how silly your comparisons were?

[Warhippy]

Just now, Dazzle said:

I will re-post what I just wrote above:

 

1 player (Horvat) out of 7 picks in 2013

1 player (Hutton) in 2012 out of 5 picks. Gaunce was a first round bust.

0 players out of 8 picks in 2011

0 players out of 5 picks in 2010

1 player (Connauton - never played for the Canucks) out of 7 picks in 2009. Schroeder was another first round bust.

1 player (Hodgson) out of 5 picks in 2008.

 

33 missed picks out of 37 total picks.

 

If you miss that many picks, the team's future depth is SURELY going to be affected. This is what I have been underlining.

Fill your boots son.  Again, tell me how this is "gillis" fault alone when since 2006 the Canucks have only drafted 12 total players that have played 200+ games 

 

 

[Warhippy]

Just now, Dazzle said:

Burke and Nonis drafted the Sedins, Edler and Kesler.

 

Do we really need to expose how silly your comparisons were?

You're reaching so hard I think I can feel your fingers tickling my shoulder

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

Fill your boots son.  Again, tell me how this is "gillis" fault alone when since 2006 the Canucks have only drafted 12 total players that have played 200+ games 

 

 

6 years, 4 picks. Gillis deserves the heat on drafting. These players SHOULD have been on the roster today.

[Dazzle]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

You're reaching so hard I think I can feel your fingers tickling my shoulder

I don't understand why you won't address the drafting failure.

 

Gillis USED Edler from Burke/Nonis' time period, all the while failing to draft a defenseman of his own. Yes, he brought Tanev, but the overall depth is the responsibility of a GM.

 

The fact that he could not replenish his rosters with his own picks LED to an empty prospect pool. Once the old players left, there was no succession plan.

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

6 years, 4 picks. Gillis deserves the heat on drafting. These players SHOULD have been on the roster today.

Show me then, how many NHL teams had success drafting between 25th and 30th between 2009 and 2013.  Tell me who the players were and where they are now or what teams they actually achieved success on.

 

I have those names on hand and am just wondering if you'd "enlighten me" who they are.  Because if you want to simply pick and choose the smallest minutiae of information to defame an entire era of management I want all the information.

 

Keeping in mind, you're only picking teams drafting 25th through 30th for 5 consecutive drafts.  I can expand on it too and go as far as the 3rd round.

Edited January 16, 2023 by Warhippy

[Dazzle]

Just now, Warhippy said:

Show me then, how many NHL teams had success drafting between 25 and 30 between 2009 and 2013.  Tell me who the players were and where they are now or what teams they actually achieved success on.

 

I have those names on hand and am just wondering if you'd "enlighten me" who they are.  Because if you want to simply pick and choose the smallest minutiae of information to defame an entire era of management I want all the information.

Anaheim Ducks

 

 

Calgary Flames

 

 

Winnipeg Jets

 

 

If you're going to make a point, at least find evidence to support it. All these teams, plus many more, drafted and developed way better in fewer drafts.

[Warhippy]

6 minutes ago, Dazzle said:

Anaheim Ducks

 

 

Calgary Flames

 

 

Winnipeg Jets

 

 

If you're going to make a point, at least find evidence to support it. All these teams, plus many more, drafted and developed way better in fewer drafts.

I...don't recall the Ducks Flames and Jets drafting at an average of 25th through 30th from 2009 through 2013.

 

But just for reference.  Since, obviously draft position and actual team success and pushing for championships don't matter.  

 

Tell me, what is the difference between the screenshots you posted vs this one from vancouver?  Tell me, what are or were the affiliate AHL teams for development for those teams vs the Canucks in those years?  No no, since it doesn't matter obviously it's ok.  But out of curiousit I'd like to know

 

Seems kind of easier to draft and develop players successfully when you're drafting higher but whatever.

 

 

Edited January 16, 2023 by Warhippy

[Slegr]

It sounds like Rick Tocchet is a guaranteed thing at this point as the next coach. I’m not feeling at all confident about this. The guy has a losing record in the NHL as head coach, and he has been criminally charged with conspiracy and promoting gambling. 
What exactly does he offer us?

Edited January 16, 2023 by Slegr