[Discussion] How badly has goaltending affected the Canucks this season?

[iceman64]

Seriously? It was hardly just missing Demko, at the beginning of the year our D had massive amounts of injuries and our lack of team D showed from the forwards. Plus losing Mik made it even worse. 

However this is pretty much like every year, our lack of depth gets exposed like it always does when management caves to public opinion to get a better roster instead of building one with depth. 

 Oh wait, a one and done Stanley cup isn't working..  

 Funny how that is, as usual...

I fully expect it to happen again though, par for course around here, the golf course that is. 

 Fans who think that will EVER work should just shut the F up or go cheer for the Coilers or Flamer-outs.. 

[iceman64]

On 3/20/2023 at 1:50 PM, 48MPHSlapShot said:

Silver lining to not having Demko for most of the year is that it shone a spotlight on just how terrible our defense actually is. There's no hiding from it now and management is finally being forced to take action. 

Sounds like most of our rosters over the years, good enough to be really good but not good enough to be great, yet people were perfectly content to have a good "seasonal" team that got ousted 1st round in the post. 

 However it started in the media and idiots who refuse to critically think for themselves followed happily along and trumpeted loud and long for more of the same. 

 Well when we start to get into the post season again, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to keep it up but miserable we won't win a cup and cry even louder... 

 Question is, will we ever actually build a team?  Maybe, IF management ignores the fans and does it for ONCE in our lame history of repeat "the same ole"

 

[EP Phone Home]

6 hours ago, iceman64 said:

Sounds like most of our rosters over the years, good enough to be really good but not good enough to be great, yet people were perfectly content to have a good "seasonal" team that got ousted 1st round in the post. 

 However it started in the media and idiots who refuse to critically think for themselves followed happily along and trumpeted loud and long for more of the same. 

 Well when we start to get into the post season again, I'm sure they'll be more than happy to keep it up but miserable we won't win a cup and cry even louder... 

 Question is, will we ever actually build a team?  Maybe, IF management ignores the fans and does it for ONCE in our lame history of repeat "the same ole"

 

preaching the truth and facts Iceman.

 

We should’ve started building a team (depth and cornerstone players not just Petey, Demko and Hughes) when the Sedins retired in 2018 and Trevor Linden wanted to build a deep and young team. That was one year after Petterson getting drafted, Hughes was just drafted and Demko was still in Utica and not with the big club other than his first call up/start against Columbus in 2018.  
 

 

 

This was the time to accumulate draft picks and take bad money (contracts) for short term pain, for picks and prospects to increase the timeline of this rebuild that Linden proposed to FA and Benning. We know the story after that, Linden leaving the franchise because FA wanted a quick turn around (when doesn’t he want that) and Benning said he can do it.

 

 

 

 

So instead we went free agency shopping and used the 14+ million dollars that came off the books with the Sedin’s retiring. Spent money on Gagne, Beagle, Rooster, MDZ, Nilsson instead of weaponizing cap space like we have seen with so many other teams around the league do when they need to rebuild the cupboards and depth of their organizations. And the irony of that summer spreading spree bit the team in the ass in the off season of 2020 when we didn’t have the cap space to resign our right side defenders in Stetcher/Tanev as well as top 6 winger Toffoli. It’s very short sighted mistakes that we might run into repeating as soon as end of the 2023/2024 season when we have to somehow find the cap space to resign Petey and Hronek

when they need new deals. Of course we will make the room for Petey but at what cost? 
 

 

It doesn’t do us any favours always being so close up against the cap. Teams aren’t stupid and can see when a team is cap crunched (which we always seem to be) and can get really solid players for peanuts due to their cap issues. Seattle traded just a 5th and 4th to Columbus for Bjorkstrand.
 

 

 

It’s a very difficult task to achieve to rebuild a blue line when you have 13 million combined in undesirable D men in Myers (free agent signing in 2019 6X5) and OEL (the trade that Benning did to try and save his job and failed) how does one improve when we are stuck with dead weight contracts. While Myers might be able to be moved being in the last year of his deal, we are stuck with OEL.

 

One other thing that has been a glaring issue with this team is the reluctancy to draft more blue liners especially on the right side. You mentioned how we happen to never have enough depth to get in the playoffs or to go far in the playoffs. This is very true, especially on the right side defence. I don’t have any issues with what we have and what’s coming on the left side. We have Hughes, Rathbone,Hirose, Wolalin, Breez and EP2.0 coming on the LS. It’s the right side we have little to no depth and no elite RSD on the way. Who was the last RSD that we drafted and developed? Johnathan Myrenberg  (traded last year for Studnicka who may or may not be in our future plans) Jet Woo that’s who and he’s having a great year in Abby. But why haven’t we been drafting more RSD when it’s been our area of weakness on the big club and in the system for a very long time. Is it because Defensemen take a lot longer then Centers or Wingers do? That management doesn’t have the runway of 4-5 years to develop these prospects? 

 

 

I think JR and most of the Canucks Execs have until the end of next season before their contracts run out so they aren’t focused on the future they are focused on getting instant results. That was intentional and how FA wanted. Another quick turn around that JR said he would help take on. So the future of building out depth has taken a back seat for a ready now playoff hunt. 

 

This short term way of thinking limits this teams potential ceiling of being a cup contender and instead we the fans have to settle for just a playoff team (not even that the last 3 years). Which you have pointed out @iceman64 that if the goal is just to be a playoff team it’s a numbing goal and standard to “just get in and anything can happen” benchmark.
 

 

Now because we didn’t go ahead with Trevor’s plan of rebuilding in 2018 we are stuck with a unfinished product that yes has some REALLY great pieces but the work isn’t done and we are stuck in a place where our core doesn’t want to be bad and get the elite talent we need to expand to contender (not pretender) status. We are in a way f**ked with the layout of contracts and our three cornerstones in their prime with very little margin for error to add to and improve upon.

 

The Hronek trade was not the right time to make but since JR and Co are on the clock, rather then draft a Hronrek with the 1st or 2nd (he was after all a 2nd round pick) rounder we had we used those cost controlled and potentially better assets go so we can gamble on next year. If we make the playoffs and Hronek has a good year, we have to open the bank for him and Petey. 
 

I absolutely hear you loud and clear Iceman and I’ve opted out of my season tickets because I can no longer give my money towards a goal( playoff spot not a cup)  that not every fan agrees with. It’s the only deterrent I have to say I’m done with the refool on the fly method that we continue to try and sell to the fan base

 

I’m always going to want to see this club win the big prize but you, myself and other fans have seen the trend that we’ve been stuck on since we lost the final in 2011 and we want to cut corners to get there. So I’m sceptical this retool short term plan is going to work this time because it sure hasn’t worked out the last 9-10 years. The fear I have in the next decade is that we will be the lone team in the sad club with  Buffalo looking like they are getting their act together finally and Toronto might get over the hump now that they got through the first round. Hope I’m dead wrong about that but I can see it. 
 

Anyways Iceman I might have vented more then I should’ve but there’s good reason to be critical about this team spinning it’s tires for this long. If posters on here have issue with what I am saying here, maybe the team should have higher standards and put a stop to the short sighted mediocrity that we’ve all endured. BE BETTER DO BETTER! We all want to see a cup championship in our lifetime it’s overdue and we want a deep team that can deliver that goal. There’s nothing wrong with having those expectations. 

 

 

 

Edited May 6, 2023 by EP Phone Home

[iceman64]

1 hour ago, EP Phone Home said:

preaching the truth and facts Iceman.

 

We should’ve started building a team (depth and cornerstone players not just Petey, Demko and Hughes) when the Sedins retired in 2018 and Trevor Linden wanted to build a deep and young team. That was one year after Petterson getting drafted, Hughes was just drafted and Demko was still in Utica and not with the big club other than his first call up/start against Columbus in 2018.  
 

 

 

This was the time to accumulate draft picks and take bad money (contracts) for short term pain, for picks and prospects to increase the timeline of this rebuild that Linden proposed to FA and Benning. We know the story after that, Linden leaving the franchise because FA wanted a quick turn around (when doesn’t he want that) and Benning said he can do it.

 

 

 

 

So instead we went free agency shopping and used the 14+ million dollars that came off the books with the Sedin’s retiring. Spent money on Gagne, Beagle, Rooster, MDZ, Nilsson instead of weaponizing cap space like we have seen with so many other teams around the league do when they need to rebuild the cupboards and depth of their organizations. And the irony of that summer spreading spree bit the team in the ass in the off season of 2020 when we didn’t have the cap space to resign our right side defenders in Stetcher/Tanev as well as top 6 winger Toffoli. It’s very short sighted mistakes that we might run into repeating as soon as end of the 2023/2024 season when we have to somehow find the cap space to resign Petey and Hronek

when they need new deals. Of course we will make the room for Petey but at what cost? 
 

 

It doesn’t do us any favours always being so close up against the cap. Teams aren’t stupid and can see when a team is cap crunched (which we always seem to be) and can get really solid players for peanuts due to their cap issues. Seattle traded just a 5th and 4th to Columbus for Bjorkstrand.
 

 

 

It’s a very difficult task to achieve to rebuild a blue line when you have 13 million combined in undesirable D men in Myers (free agent signing in 2019 6X5) and OEL (the trade that Benning did to try and save his job and failed) how does one improve when we are stuck with dead weight contracts. While Myers might be able to be moved being in the last year of his deal, we are stuck with OEL.

 

One other thing that has been a glaring issue with this team is the reluctancy to draft more blue liners especially on the right side. You mentioned how we happen to never have enough depth to get in the playoffs or to go far in the playoffs. This is very true, especially on the right side defence. I don’t have any issues with what we have and what’s coming on the left side. We have Hughes, Rathbone,Hirose, Wolalin, Breez and EP2.0 coming on the LS. It’s the right side we have little to no depth and no elite RSD on the way. Who was the last RSD that we drafted and developed? Johnathan Myrenberg  (traded last year for Studnicka who may or may not be in our future plans) Jet Woo that’s who and he’s having a great year in Abby. But why haven’t we been drafting more RSD when it’s been our area of weakness on the big club and in the system for a very long time. Is it because Defensemen take a lot longer then Centers or Wingers do? That management doesn’t have the runway of 4-5 years to develop these prospects? 

 

 

I think JR and most of the Canucks Execs have until the end of next season before their contracts run out so they aren’t focused on the future they are focused on getting instant results. That was intentional and how FA wanted. Another quick turn around that JR said he would help take on. So the future of building out depth has taken a back seat for a ready now playoff hunt. 

 

This short term way of thinking limits this teams potential ceiling of being a cup contender and instead we the fans have to settle for just a playoff team (not even that the last 3 years). Which you have pointed out @iceman64 that if the goal is just to be a playoff team it’s a numbing goal and standard to “just get in and anything can happen” benchmark.
 

 

Now because we didn’t go ahead with Trevor’s plan of rebuilding in 2018 we are stuck with a unfinished product that yes has some REALLY great pieces but the work isn’t done and we are stuck in a place where our core doesn’t want to be bad and get the elite talent we need to expand to contender (not pretender) status. We are in a way f**ked with the layout of contracts and our three cornerstones in their prime with very little margin for error to add to and improve upon.

 

The Hronek trade was not the right time to make but since JR and Co are on the clock, rather then draft a Hronrek with the 1st or 2nd (he was after all a 2nd round pick) rounder we had we used those cost controlled and potentially better assets go so we can gamble on next year. If we make the playoffs and Hronek has a good year, we have to open the bank for him and Petey. 
 

I absolutely hear you loud and clear Iceman and I’ve opted out of my season tickets because I can no longer give my money towards a goal( playoff spot not a cup)  that not every fan agrees with. It’s the only deterrent I have to say I’m done with the refool on the fly method that we continue to try and sell to the fan base

 

I’m always going to want to see this club win the big prize but you, myself and other fans have seen the trend that we’ve been stuck on since we lost the final in 2011 and we want to cut corners to get there. So I’m sceptical this retool short term plan is going to work this time because it sure hasn’t worked out the last 9-10 years. The fear I have in the next decade is that we will be the lone team in the sad club with  Buffalo looking like they are getting their act together finally and Toronto might get over the hump now that they got through the first round. Hope I’m dead wrong about that but I can see it. 
 

Anyways Iceman I might have vented more then I should’ve but there’s good reason to be critical about this team spinning it’s tires for this long. If posters on here have issue with what I am saying here, maybe the team should have higher standards and put a stop to the short sighted mediocrity that we’ve all endured. BE BETTER DO BETTER! We all want to see a cup championship in our lifetime it’s overdue and we want a deep team that can deliver that goal. There’s nothing wrong with having those expectations. 

 

 

 

Lmao I know hey? The venting part I mean, oh believe me I get that! If I started in on my thoughts about more than that and who kept the one and done show alive and well all these years?  The Vancouver media and online media hacks (self proclaimed or otherwise) forgets the past and continues the b.s. of trading picks, prospects, for roster players with big names that may or may not work out here. Sometimes it worked but mostly we ended up on the losing side. Well not during the season but when depth was relies upon and you don't have any... Ruh roh... Man the lifeboats because this ship is sinking! Over and over again! Like wtf???  40+ years of this and we keep repeating.. omfg! Lmao! 

 *Pats self on the back* for keeping my blood pressure down! 

[Alflives]

2 hours ago, EP Phone Home said:

preaching the truth and facts Iceman.

 

We should’ve started building a team (depth and cornerstone players not just Petey, Demko and Hughes) when the Sedins retired in 2018 and Trevor Linden wanted to build a deep and young team. That was one year after Petterson getting drafted, Hughes was just drafted and Demko was still in Utica and not with the big club other than his first call up/start against Columbus in 2018.  
 

 

 

This was the time to accumulate draft picks and take bad money (contracts) for short term pain, for picks and prospects to increase the timeline of this rebuild that Linden proposed to FA and Benning. We know the story after that, Linden leaving the franchise because FA wanted a quick turn around (when doesn’t he want that) and Benning said he can do it.

 

 

 

 

So instead we went free agency shopping and used the 14+ million dollars that came off the books with the Sedin’s retiring. Spent money on Gagne, Beagle, Rooster, MDZ, Nilsson instead of weaponizing cap space like we have seen with so many other teams around the league do when they need to rebuild the cupboards and depth of their organizations. And the irony of that summer spreading spree bit the team in the ass in the off season of 2020 when we didn’t have the cap space to resign our right side defenders in Stetcher/Tanev as well as top 6 winger Toffoli. It’s very short sighted mistakes that we might run into repeating as soon as end of the 2023/2024 season when we have to somehow find the cap space to resign Petey and Hronek

when they need new deals. Of course we will make the room for Petey but at what cost? 
 

 

It doesn’t do us any favours always being so close up against the cap. Teams aren’t stupid and can see when a team is cap crunched (which we always seem to be) and can get really solid players for peanuts due to their cap issues. Seattle traded just a 5th and 4th to Columbus for Bjorkstrand.
 

 

 

It’s a very difficult task to achieve to rebuild a blue line when you have 13 million combined in undesirable D men in Myers (free agent signing in 2019 6X5) and OEL (the trade that Benning did to try and save his job and failed) how does one improve when we are stuck with dead weight contracts. While Myers might be able to be moved being in the last year of his deal, we are stuck with OEL.

 

One other thing that has been a glaring issue with this team is the reluctancy to draft more blue liners especially on the right side. You mentioned how we happen to never have enough depth to get in the playoffs or to go far in the playoffs. This is very true, especially on the right side defence. I don’t have any issues with what we have and what’s coming on the left side. We have Hughes, Rathbone,Hirose, Wolalin, Breez and EP2.0 coming on the LS. It’s the right side we have little to no depth and no elite RSD on the way. Who was the last RSD that we drafted and developed? Johnathan Myrenberg  (traded last year for Studnicka who may or may not be in our future plans) Jet Woo that’s who and he’s having a great year in Abby. But why haven’t we been drafting more RSD when it’s been our area of weakness on the big club and in the system for a very long time. Is it because Defensemen take a lot longer then Centers or Wingers do? That management doesn’t have the runway of 4-5 years to develop these prospects? 

 

 

I think JR and most of the Canucks Execs have until the end of next season before their contracts run out so they aren’t focused on the future they are focused on getting instant results. That was intentional and how FA wanted. Another quick turn around that JR said he would help take on. So the future of building out depth has taken a back seat for a ready now playoff hunt. 

 

This short term way of thinking limits this teams potential ceiling of being a cup contender and instead we the fans have to settle for just a playoff team (not even that the last 3 years). Which you have pointed out @iceman64 that if the goal is just to be a playoff team it’s a numbing goal and standard to “just get in and anything can happen” benchmark.
 

 

Now because we didn’t go ahead with Trevor’s plan of rebuilding in 2018 we are stuck with a unfinished product that yes has some REALLY great pieces but the work isn’t done and we are stuck in a place where our core doesn’t want to be bad and get the elite talent we need to expand to contender (not pretender) status. We are in a way f**ked with the layout of contracts and our three cornerstones in their prime with very little margin for error to add to and improve upon.

 

The Hronek trade was not the right time to make but since JR and Co are on the clock, rather then draft a Hronrek with the 1st or 2nd (he was after all a 2nd round pick) rounder we had we used those cost controlled and potentially better assets go so we can gamble on next year. If we make the playoffs and Hronek has a good year, we have to open the bank for him and Petey. 
 

I absolutely hear you loud and clear Iceman and I’ve opted out of my season tickets because I can no longer give my money towards a goal( playoff spot not a cup)  that not every fan agrees with. It’s the only deterrent I have to say I’m done with the refool on the fly method that we continue to try and sell to the fan base

 

I’m always going to want to see this club win the big prize but you, myself and other fans have seen the trend that we’ve been stuck on since we lost the final in 2011 and we want to cut corners to get there. So I’m sceptical this retool short term plan is going to work this time because it sure hasn’t worked out the last 9-10 years. The fear I have in the next decade is that we will be the lone team in the sad club with  Buffalo looking like they are getting their act together finally and Toronto might get over the hump now that they got through the first round. Hope I’m dead wrong about that but I can see it. 
 

Anyways Iceman I might have vented more then I should’ve but there’s good reason to be critical about this team spinning it’s tires for this long. If posters on here have issue with what I am saying here, maybe the team should have higher standards and put a stop to the short sighted mediocrity that we’ve all endured. BE BETTER DO BETTER! We all want to see a cup championship in our lifetime it’s overdue and we want a deep team that can deliver that goal. There’s nothing wrong with having those expectations. 

 

 

 

I think a lot of us are still suffering with PTBD. But we need to realize, to get well, that this regime is more like Gillis than Benning. Hronek just turned 25 when we got him and he completes our core. 
If we buyout OEL and dumperoo Myers we will be 105 points next year. We have a great younger core and are retooling the supporting cast to make it great too.

[iceman64]

23 hours ago, Alflives said:

I think a lot of us are still suffering with PTBD. But we need to realize, to get well, that this regime is more like Gillis than Benning. Hronek just turned 25 when we got him and he completes our core. 
If we buyout OEL and dumperoo Myers we will be 105 points next year. We have a great younger core and are retooling the supporting cast to make it great too.

You know Alf, I wouldn't give up on OEL that quickly, he was a force at one point and if he can return to that form we could be ok, Myers doesn't have to be traded until we have a suitable replacement but not sacrificing is the key for both if something can be salvaged, like keeping Myers another season then add a FA or top prospect Ala a Boes or Garland trade. 

 But we need to have a hard-nosed, big, smart D with some upside skill but a stay at home guy to compliment a smaller PMD like Hughes, if we can pull the same toughness and skill on each line to compliment that and have depth at it too. That would help us a TON

 Picture a faster Guddy who can play a notch up.. exactly what we need but so do a lot of teams, getting and developing younger ones like that is a ton easier. 

 It seemed to me that what Benning was after when signing Guddy and Tryamkin but IF it had worked out and matched with PMD's, there's the answer as a lot of elite teams have pulled off in the past. 

 Can it be done here?! Idk but without said tougher bigger D, anyone can just park themselves in the crease

 and screen, no one can stop what they can't see and we've been burned by that a LOT!

It's time for US to have guys who can physically remove a forward from the crease on every pairing. 

 Will it happen? Can JR n AL pull it off and depth it too? Probably not and not getting my hopes up but one can dream Mr Alien...

Edit: OEL.. well maybe it's as simple as more time with Gonchar, idk but a OEL buyout would be painful in the long run but you know that I'm sure

 

Edited May 7, 2023 by iceman64

[Dr. Crossbar]

On 3/20/2023 at 10:20 AM, ilduce39 said:

I’ve said it all year. Average goaltending and we’re at least in the playoff hunt.

 

This team needs to have a good start next year, though, before I get too excited. They’ve proven to be mentally fragile the past few seasons, especially to start the year.

Exactly this! Great post.

 

Glad Tocchet is dialing these guys in before training camp, making sure we get that good start. 

 

Only a matter of time before we have Demko/Silovs.