11th overall pick in the 2023 Entry Draft

[ilduce39]

6 minutes ago, PhillipBlunt said:

How could I forget the defensive guru BumGardener

Currently the assistant down with the Manitoba Moose. Had to check. 

[Warhippy]

15 minutes ago, Pure961089 said:

Drafting is only half of it, the other half is development. If you have a good scouting staff but have an incompetent development staff it doesn't matter if it's a top 10 pick.  Unless the player drafted is a special self motivated talent like Petey and Hughes (a top 5 talent) your top 10 picks will flounder.  I'm optimistic about the direction this organization is going, investing time in the players you draft was a foriegn concept for Benning. 

 

I've been pooping on the development aspect of this team since about 2008 when we essentially moved from the moose to chicago and then got excited for utica until it was just a dumping grounds nobody but us fans cared about and then abby and still have hopes something will change but.....

[spook007]

3 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

So basically Buffalo, Columbus, Arizona, Philly and Ottawa have all drafted in the top 10 at least 3 times in the last decade and they all still suck.  So, what has drafting in the top 10 on a regular basis accomplished for them?  Are they any better ahead than us?

Didn't you get the memo... Canucks are the only team that sucks...

 

All our players suck and we have no cap space... We'll be fleeced, but if we try to swing a trade that opens capspace ands gets rid of some of the players that suck, we are getting far to little for them... 

 

Nothing is possible... we will go down in flames unless, we sell everything and start all over, except.......

it isn't going to happen, while JR is in charge.

[Warhippy]

1 minute ago, spook007 said:

Didn't you get the memo... Canucks are the only team that sucks...

 

All our players suck and we have no cap space... We'll be fleeced, but if we try to swing a trade that opens capspace ands gets rid of some of the players that suck, we are getting far to little for them... 

 

Nothing is possible... we will go down in flames unless, we sell everything and start all over, except.......

it isn't going to happen, while JR is in charge.

I love me some good sarcasm.

 

But for fun.

 

Check the rosters and minor depth of those teams for prospects.  Check their draft capital over the next few drafts.  Then check their existing cap space over the next 2 seasons.  let us know which of them are positioned worse than the Canucks

[ilduce39]

5 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Didn't you get the memo... Canucks are the only team that sucks...

 

All our players suck and we have no cap space... We'll be fleeced, but if we try to swing a trade that opens capspace ands gets rid of some of the players that suck, we are getting far to little for them... 

 

Nothing is possible... we will go down in flames unless, we sell everything and start all over, except.......

it isn't going to happen, while JR is in charge.

You forgot that the only hope is to do a full tear down rebuild and hire none other than Kyle Dubas to oversee the demolition.

 

His assistant GM will be a sentient calculator named Digits.

Edited May 25, 2023 by ilduce39

[spook007]

1 minute ago, Warhippy said:

I love me some good sarcasm.

 

But for fun.

 

Check the rosters and minor depth of those teams for prospects.  Check their draft capital over the next few drafts.  Then check their existing cap space over the next 2 seasons.  let us know which of them are positioned worse than the Canucks

True... but are we going to sell the family silver, to get there?

Its probablyly that simple...

 

We are never going to drop to the bottom of despair while QH, Petey and Demko are here...

 

[DrJockitch]

3 minutes ago, ilduce39 said:

You forgot that the only hope is to do a full tear down rebuild and hire none other than Kyle Dubas to oversee the demolition.

 

His assistant GM will be a sentient calculator named Digits.

Dubas was not the GM when they tore it down, Lou was.  He is the one that couldn't finish the job.

[Warhippy]

3 minutes ago, spook007 said:

True... but are we going to sell the family silver, to get there?

Its probablyly that simple...

 

We are never going to drop to the bottom of despair while QH, Petey and Demko are here...

 

We don't have to.  we just have to have smarter ownership/management that will get us there without an endless cycle of trading picks/prospects to drop cap/contracts while actually accruing and holding on to draft capitol to in fact increase our depth and allow us to properly develop youth as opposed to 27 year olds on 2 way contracts that can't make it on playoff bound teams.

[DrJockitch]

4 minutes ago, spook007 said:

True... but are we going to sell the family silver, to get there?

Its probablyly that simple...

 

We are never going to drop to the bottom of despair while QH, Petey and Demko are here...

 

Nope, that is clear.  We are going to throw every future we can at scraping into the WC race because when there "anything can happen."  

Unfortunately that is our plan as long as Aqua is running things.

[ilduce39]

Just now, DrJockitch said:

Dubas was not the GM when they tore it down, Lou was.  He is the one that couldn't finish the job.

I was just poking fun at the rebuild cheerleaders…

 

but iirc they didn’t even tear it all the way down.  
 

Check their roster when they bottomed out - there were some good pieces. Im actually surprised they finished so low to land Matthews.  It also explains the quick bounce back and illusion that it’s a quick, painless process.

 

(TBH would have been like if we had kept our crappy goaltending and bottomed out to a top pick this year.)

[DrJockitch]

2 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

We don't have to.  we just have to have smarter ownership/management that will get us there without an endless cycle of trading picks/prospects to drop cap/contracts while actually accruing and holding on to draft capitol to in fact increase our depth and allow us to properly develop youth as opposed to 27 year olds on 2 way contracts that can't make it on playoff bound teams.

But if you did that you would have cap without having to give up assets to get it.  What kind of upside down Bizzaro world is that.  We don't work that way and JR never has.

[Elias Pettersson]

1 hour ago, Warhippy said:

Philly won the draft and really just started down that road.

 

ottawa went to the ECF before blowing it all up and has actually drafted only twice thus far in the top 10 over the last few years due to trading a pick to Arizona and Colorado.

 

Columbus has arguably some of the best prospect depth in the entire league right now and aside from chemistry issues, bad goaltending and insanely bad injury issues this year is vastly better than their record suggests

 

Buffalo has already taken the next step and is just missing a piece or two but drafted similarly to us while also lucking out with two 1st overall picks

 

Arizona is a mess but the moment they move they'll catch fire because they; again are deeper than us and have that cap space to play with.  

 

While we have drafted comparably, all of those teams barring Columbus have more cap space than us; all but Arizona have won as many or more playoff series as we have in the last decade ish and all of them are deeper, younger and have better draft capital than us.

When you ask if they are any better ahead of us, look at the rosters, cap space and records over the last ten years vs their trajectory.  Then compare it to ours.  After you've done that.  You tell me

We have Petey, Kuzmenko, Miller, Hughes, Hronek and Demko.  Six core pieces along with some younger players as well.  Our issue is not the core, we already have it.  Our issue is clearing enough cap space so that we can add some complimentary pieces to help us push for the playoffs and beyond.  Our cap issues started under Benning, so it's been awhile.  It's not easy to clear off $20 million+ in bad contracts in one offseason.  Perhaps we can clear half of that this summer and the rest next summer.  

 

Philly doesn't have a core 6.  They don't even have one core piece under the age of 25 other than maybe Carter Hart, who is hit and miss.  They had the #2 overall pick in 2017 and picked the worst player out of all the players that were available.  They literally passed on 3 franchise players.  They are a mess and will need at least a decade or more to recover.

 

Buffalo needed two 1st overall picks plus a fluke trade to get Tage Thompson in order to build their core.  Even so, they have the same amount of core pieces that we do.  They have 6 in Dahlin, Power, Thompson, Cozens, Tuch and Skinner.  If you want to throw Samuelsson in there then they have 7, but Samuelsson has yet to prove that he can even play a full season.  Our core 6 is just as strong as their core 6 to be honest with you as we actually have a goalie who can steal games.  They don't even have a legit starting NHL goalie right now.  I don't see how they are any further ahead than we are.

 

Arizona is a joke and not even worth discussing.

 

Ottawa has 7 core pieces.  Tkachuk, Stützle, Batherson, DeBrincat, Norris, Chabot and Chychrun.  Maybe Zub as well, not sure.  Again, is there core any stronger than ours?  They also don't even have a starting NHL goalie on their roster.  

 

Columbus has the most potential out of all of these teams to be honest.  They have Leo Carlsson coming.  Gaudreau, Laine, Johnson, Marchenko, Sillinger, Jiricek, Boqvist, Werenski.  They also don't have an NHL goalie.  Elvis doesn't do it for me.  Columbus has also had 22 years to build their team and have only made the playoffs 6 times and won 2 rounds.  You would think after 22 years they are close to building a really good team.  Even after 22 years, they still need a top 3 pick in this draft to finally push them over the top.  Does Columbus have better young players than us, especially after they draft Carlsson?  Yes.  But they had to be bad for a long time in order to get to where they are now.  If we had started a rebuild in 2013 then we are probably better off then them right now...

[ilduce39]

3 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We have Petey, Kuzmenko, Miller, Hughes, Hronek and Demko.  Six core pieces along with some younger players as well.  Our issue is not the core, we already have it.  Our issue is clearing enough cap space so that we can add some complimentary pieces to help us push for the playoffs and beyond.  Our cap issues started under Benning, so it's been awhile.  It's not easy to clear off $20 million+ in bad contracts in one offseason.  Perhaps we can clear half of that this summer and the rest next summer.  

 

Philly doesn't have a core 6.  They don't even have one core piece under the age of 25 other than maybe Carter Hart, who is hit and miss.  They had the #2 overall pick in 2017 and picked the worst player out of all the players that were available.  They literally passed on 3 franchise players.  They are a mess and will need at least a decade or more to recover.

 

Buffalo needed two 1st overall picks plus a fluke trade to get Tage Thompson in order to build their core.  Even so, they have the same amount of core pieces that we do.  They have 6 in Dahlin, Power, Thompson, Cozens, Tuch and Skinner.  If you want to throw Samuelsson in there then they have 7, but Samuelsson has yet to prove that he can even play a full season.  Our core 6 is just as strong as their core 6 to be honest with you as we actually have a goalie who can steal games.  They don't even have a legit starting NHL goalie right now.  I don't see how they are any further ahead than we are.

 

Arizona is a joke and not even worth discussing.

 

Ottawa has 7 core pieces.  Tkachuk, Stützle, Batherson, DeBrincat, Norris, Chabot and Chychrun.  Maybe Zub as well, not sure.  Again, is there core any stronger than ours?  They also don't even have a starting NHL goalie on their roster.  

 

Columbus has the most potential out of all of these teams to be honest.  They have Leo Carlsson coming.  Gaudreau, Laine, Johnson, Marchenko, Sillinger, Jiricek, Boqvist, Werenski.  They also don't have an NHL goalie.  Elvis doesn't do it for me.  Columbus has also had 22 years to build their team and have only made the playoffs 6 times and won 2 rounds.  You would think after 22 years they are close to building a really good team.  Even after 22 years, they still need a top 3 pick in this draft to finally push them over the top.  Does Columbus have better young players than us, especially after they draft Carlsson?  Yes.  But they had to be bad for a long time in order to get to where they are now.  If we had started a rebuild in 2013 then we are probably better off then them right now...

The grass is always greener. 
 

Not saying it’ll be an easy path for Allvin and JR but we certainly have the bones of a very good team.  The key, as you’ve pointed out, is Demko (and maybe Silovs?)

 

Need a 3C and one more top 4 D before Miller starts to fall off but it’s fun to watch again.

[Elias Pettersson]

39 minutes ago, Warhippy said:

We don't have to.  we just have to have smarter ownership/management that will get us there without an endless cycle of trading picks/prospects to drop cap/contracts while actually accruing and holding on to draft capitol to in fact increase our depth and allow us to properly develop youth as opposed to 27 year olds on 2 way contracts that can't make it on playoff bound teams.

On the one hand you are saying that we have no cap space, on the other hand you are saying we need to keep our draft capital and prospects.  So how do you propose that we clear $20 million+ in bad contracts unless we add some picks or prospects to the trades?  We aren't rebuilding which is why we added Hronek.  We have our core in place.  We have pieces that every other NHL team would die to have.  Petey, Hughes and Demko are players that are wanted by every NHL team.  We have them.  That is not disputable.  We just need to surround them with better complimentary players.  That's why Miller is still aorund and why we got Hronek.  And Kuzmenko was a gift from Allah.  How many teams have added a 40-goal scorer for free without drafting that player?

[Nuxfanabroad]

45 minutes ago, Elias Pettersson said:

On the one hand you are saying that we have no cap space, on the other hand you are saying we need to keep our draft capital and prospects.  So how do you propose that we clear $20 million+ in bad contracts unless we add some picks or prospects to the trades?  We aren't rebuilding which is why we added Hronek.  We have our core in place.  We have pieces that every other NHL team would die to have.  Petey, Hughes and Demko are players that are wanted by every NHL team.  We have them.  That is not disputable.  We just need to surround them with better complimentary players.  That's why Miller is still aorund and why we got Hronek.  And Kuzmenko was a gift from Allah.  How many teams have added a 40-goal scorer for free without drafting that player?

Appreciate the optimism of your(80-90% of them) posts. Indeed, things aren't so dire.

[hockeyfan-observer]

The Blackhawk Canuck rumours I have been hearing does make some sense.  The Hawks want to field a competitive team sooner and not wait for 3-5 years for all their prospects to develop - Canucks need to clear cap space as they have spent way too much already.  Unless there is someone Canucks really like at 11th - switching to 19th +2nd rounder and the Hawks taking say a Myers + Garland and is not the worst deal - as long as we don't get the same money back which was the case with the OEL trade few years ago. Alternatively, if first rounders are too critical, can always look at working with 2nd-3rd rounders in trades. (eg. Schenn for 3rd rounder).

 

Hopefully the Canucks + Aquaman have learned from this and watch their finances more carefully in the future.  You do not need a team full of superstars (eg. Leafs) but a more complete team that fits the coaching style.  Teams like the Kraken proved it this year and the Panthers have a bunch of players like Bennett and Duclair.that were under performing on other teams and now also contributing to their success.

[spook007]

2 hours ago, Warhippy said:

We don't have to.  we just have to have smarter ownership/management that will get us there without an endless cycle of trading picks/prospects to drop cap/contracts while actually accruing and holding on to draft capitol to in fact increase our depth and allow us to properly develop youth as opposed to 27 year olds on 2 way contracts that can't make it on playoff bound teams.

True Hippy, but management has already laid out their plans, and they want to compete now.

 

We need more cap space, and although we can field a team, as we are, if we want improvements, something have to give.

Now I've been told endlessly, that it will cost us draft picks to move any of our winger to create can room. Possibly a first, to which I disagreed, but was told that they had no value, as we were pressed into a corner.

If that is truly the case, surely swapping 1st round picks, while actually getting an additional 2nd round pick and importantly letting go of at least 1 of the contracts (can be debated which one), must have some merit to it.

 

I don't particularly like it, but if they don't think, there are any takers for either Myers/OEL, or one of the 3 wingers making around $5+M without giving away loads to make the trade, then they are running out of options quick.

[spook007]

9 hours ago, DrJockitch said:

Nope, that is clear.  We are going to throw every future we can at scraping into the WC race because when there "anything can happen."  

Unfortunately that is our plan as long as Aqua is running things.

Will they not be able to compete next season? 

And while I don't think they can win next season, the team needs playoffs to see, if Petey and QH can cope...

 

If they can't, blow it up, but they need to be given the opportunity to see, what they can do.

Edited May 26, 2023 by spook007

[Warhippy]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

We have Petey, Kuzmenko, Miller, Hughes, Hronek and Demko.  Six core pieces along with some younger players as well.  Our issue is not the core, we already have it.  Our issue is clearing enough cap space so that we can add some complimentary pieces to help us push for the playoffs and beyond.  Our cap issues started under Benning, so it's been awhile.  It's not easy to clear off $20 million+ in bad contracts in one offseason.  Perhaps we can clear half of that this summer and the rest next summer.  

 

Philly doesn't have a core 6.  They don't even have one core piece under the age of 25 other than maybe Carter Hart, who is hit and miss.  They had the #2 overall pick in 2017 and picked the worst player out of all the players that were available.  They literally passed on 3 franchise players.  They are a mess and will need at least a decade or more to recover.

 

Buffalo needed two 1st overall picks plus a fluke trade to get Tage Thompson in order to build their core.  Even so, they have the same amount of core pieces that we do.  They have 6 in Dahlin, Power, Thompson, Cozens, Tuch and Skinner.  If you want to throw Samuelsson in there then they have 7, but Samuelsson has yet to prove that he can even play a full season.  Our core 6 is just as strong as their core 6 to be honest with you as we actually have a goalie who can steal games.  They don't even have a legit starting NHL goalie right now.  I don't see how they are any further ahead than we are.

 

Arizona is a joke and not even worth discussing.

 

Ottawa has 7 core pieces.  Tkachuk, Stützle, Batherson, DeBrincat, Norris, Chabot and Chychrun.  Maybe Zub as well, not sure.  Again, is there core any stronger than ours?  They also don't even have a starting NHL goalie on their roster.  

 

Columbus has the most potential out of all of these teams to be honest.  They have Leo Carlsson coming.  Gaudreau, Laine, Johnson, Marchenko, Sillinger, Jiricek, Boqvist, Werenski.  They also don't have an NHL goalie.  Elvis doesn't do it for me.  Columbus has also had 22 years to build their team and have only made the playoffs 6 times and won 2 rounds.  You would think after 22 years they are close to building a really good team.  Even after 22 years, they still need a top 3 pick in this draft to finally push them over the top.  Does Columbus have better young players than us, especially after they draft Carlsson?  Yes.  But they had to be bad for a long time in order to get to where they are now.  If we had started a rebuild in 2013 then we are probably better off then them right now...

The comprehension issue here is staggering.

 

Philly JUST started 2-3 seasons ago.  JUST.

 

Buffalo has acquired a staggering amount of depth over the last decade and while they won two 1st overall picks they also acquired large amounts of draft capitol in the same ish amount of time as Vancouver and is on the upswing with cap space to spare and large volumes of depth and assets over the next 2 seasons.  one goaltender and they'll be on my watch list next season.

 

Arizona may not be worth discussing but they have also added a significant amount of cap space and draft capitol while also acquiring a significant amount of depth of prospects.

 

Ottawa started about 5 years ago but gave up two high first round picks to do so, regardless they have hit very well on early to mid round picks and while they " only have 7 core pieces" we actually only have 5.  They also have cap space and a significant amount of draft capitol over the next few seasons and cap space.

 

Columbus is disgusting; they are on my watch list and wildly underperformed due to various reasons the largest of which are injuries.

 

When you weigh ALL of these teams out against the Canucks over the last decade, all but two have had more playoff success, all have more depth, cap space and draft capitol than the Canucks and all of them are either on or will be on the upswing while we are still moving deck chairs around hoping the boat stays afloat long enough for us to find yet another bargain basement piece another team isn't playing but won't give up for free.

 

Also, ffs stop pegging in Hronek as a core piece until you know he's actually healthy and can play this season.  People assuming he's the saviour or the next coming need to cool it.  He has to A:  Come in healthy and B; maintain his trajectory.  None of which are guarantees.  it is equally as likely that his injured shoulder causes him issues all season as it is for him to be a "core piece"

 

Like it or not; these are teams that are on or will be on the upswing soon and no amount of arguing will change that.  of all of them, I see philly as being the one to take the longest due to their just starting recently and their bi polar management issues.

[Warhippy]

4 hours ago, Elias Pettersson said:

On the one hand you are saying that we have no cap space, on the other hand you are saying we need to keep our draft capital and prospects.  So how do you propose that we clear $20 million+ in bad contracts unless we add some picks or prospects to the trades?  We aren't rebuilding which is why we added Hronek.  We have our core in place.  We have pieces that every other NHL team would die to have.  Petey, Hughes and Demko are players that are wanted by every NHL team.  We have them.  That is not disputable.  We just need to surround them with better complimentary players.  That's why Miller is still aorund and why we got Hronek.  And Kuzmenko was a gift from Allah.  How many teams have added a 40-goal scorer for free without drafting that player?

We

Wait.

 

How hard is that to understand?  Giving up pick after pick after pick to drop contracts is frigging stupid.  We JUSt did that with 3 contracts for 1 single season of cap space that we IMMEDIATELY spent while acquiring the next contract we are trying to pay to offload.

 

We also DON'T have Hronek.  We have the POSSIBILITY of Hronek.  Until he plays, stays healthy and can maintain his production we don't know what he is.

 

Our core is Miller, Petey Hughes and Demko and Kuzmenko.  After that, what?