[Report] Sven Baertschi announces retirement

[IBatch]

Bear costing us a second might have bugged some people (same with Vey), but always defended that for one simple reason.   We didn't have any tweeners.   Nothing since Edler drafted ... and CoHo wasn't here (and his career was mostly over anyways).     Nonis has a great draft with Edler, Schneider, Brown and Hansen, then 3 years of crickets.  6 years of crickets with MG until his final one flipped Schneider  for Horvat.   Doesn't take a math genuis to do the math.    That's a decade?  Well close enough.    As far as the cost (a second)..even Vey beat the odds of the average second rounder - and Bear far surpassed it.    Know he was a former first rounder, it was a decent risk, and the reward was decent too.   Also get that you can't win if you don't play..but how many of JB's seconds actually worked out?    Demko.   And?!!  Maybe Lind.    Yikes.   That said, 100nhl games is better than the average.    Bear for sure was a value added trade, especially with context.   We had virtually no tweeners.   Ok suppose Hutton.    That's it.   Nothing upfront but Horvat.   

 

Best of luck in retirement Bear.  225 games, 58 goals 110 points.    People might be shocked or know this but he's 87th all-time in scoring, a couple spots ahead of Brandon Sutter,  in 30 or so less games.     For sure worth a second round pick.   If his concussions  didn't curb his career, he'd be quite a bit higher too.    Scored more than Taylor freaking Pyatt lol.   And he's right around where Pearson is.     For sure a solid middle six guy for us when he played. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by IBatch

[NewbieCanuckFan]

2 hours ago, IBatch said:

Bear costing us a second might have bugged some people (same with Vey), but always defended that for one simple reason.   We didn't have any tweeners.   Nothing since Edler drafted ... and CoHo wasn't here (and his career was mostly over anyways).     Nonis has a great draft with Edler, Schneider, Brown and Hansen, then 3 years of crickets.  6 years of crickets with MG until his final one flipped Schneider  for Horvat.   Doesn't take a math genuis to do the math.    That's a decade?  Well close enough.    As far as the cost (a second)..even Vey beat the odds of the average second rounder - and Bear far surpassed it.    Know he was a former first rounder, it was a decent risk, and the reward was decent too.   Also get that you can't win if you don't play..but how many of JB's seconds actually worked out?    Demko.   And?!!  Maybe Lind.    Yikes.   That said, 100nhl games is better than the average.    Bear for sure was a value added trade, especially with context.   We had virtually no tweeners.   Ok suppose Hutton.    That's it.   Nothing upfront but Horvat.   

 

Best of luck in retirement Bear.  225 games, 58 goals 110 points.    People might be shocked or know this but he's 87th all-time in scoring, a couple spots ahead of Brandon Sutter,  in 30 or so less games.     For sure worth a second round pick.   If his concussions  didn't curb his career, he'd be quite a bit higher too.    Scored more than Taylor freaking Pyatt lol.   And he's right around where Pearson is.     For sure a solid middle six guy for us when he played. 

In fairness to Nonis, he was the GM that drafted Grabner.  He's the tweener that Gillis let go for that HUGE mistake deal (Ballard).  I think Nonis' time as GM actually is a bit underrated here.  Also was the GM that signed free agent Mitchell (compare that to the free agent defensemen that Benning signed here).  As well, at least he knew hire a real NHL head coach.  Benning took 7 years & still couldn't figure it out.  Nonis never had the advantage of high 1st round picks unlike the guys that followed him.  Bourdon was his highest pick (10th overall).

 

As for the subject of this thread.....I agree with you.  A worthy gamble (not like we dealt them a 1st round pick).  Not all of them work out .

Edited August 4, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[IBatch]

1 hour ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

In fairness to Nonis, he was the GM that drafted Grabner.  He's the tweener that Gillis let go for that HUGE mistake deal (Ballard).  I think Nonis' time as GM actually is a bit underrated here.  Also was the GM that signed free agent Mitchell (compare that to the free agent defensemen that Benning signed here).  As well, at least he knew hire a real NHL head coach.  Benning took 7 years & still couldn't figure it out.  Nonis never had the advantage of high 1st round picks unlike the guys that followed him.  Bourdon was his highest pick (10th overall).

 

As for the subject of this thread.....I agree with you.  A worthy gamble (not like we dealt them a 1st round pick).  Not all of them work out .

Not just underrated, underserved firing.   I honestly didn't think MG was that much of a gem other then he was able to recognize we had a legit shot and didn't trade too many others.   His drafting team failed him miserably, and 100% get he wasn't drafting high often (Co-ho and Horvat via a trade, 9/10 overall).     Didn't understand why we didn't keep Nonis.  Not trading for Brad Richards ... if that story is true (good chance it is) then shame on ownership big time for firing him.   Supported MG while he was here and nothing against him going for it. 

 

Listened to Nonis last fall... he only cared about what was best for the team no matter what.    That's the sort of GM any team can be happy to have.   Some of his deals were a little rich ... but nothing like what MG did shortly after with Sundin.   That one, I will never understand given it was his client a few months prior.  Offered him close to the max for two years.   Didn't make any sense at all.   Other than maybe a back door deal to line  his own pockets.  2 x 10 today is like 2 x 17.   Imagine giving that to barely PPG guy, even if he was heading into the HHOF.  It seriously, would have made it really hard on the club, and it was his first play.    Other than that, MG did everything right.   Was a fabulous GM a for us.   Almost won a cup.   Best team in hockey for a couple seasons... made a ton of new fans for the club too. 

Edited August 4, 2023 by IBatch

[King Heffy]

16 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Not just underrated, underserved firing.   I honestly didn't think MG was that much of a gem other then he was able to recognize we had a legit shot and didn't trade too many others.   His drafting team failed him miserably, and 100% get he wasn't drafting high often (Co-ho and Horvat via a trade, 9/10 overall).     Didn't understand why we didn't keep Nonis.  Not trading for Brad Richards ... if that story is true (good chance it is) then shame on ownership big time for firing him.   Supported MG while he was here and nothing against him going for it. 

 

Listened to Nonis last fall... he only cared about what was best for the team no matter what.    That's the sort of GM any team can be happy to have.   Some of his deals were a little rich ... but nothing like what MG did shortly after with Sundin.   That one, I will never understand given it was his client a few months prior.  Offered him close to the max for two years.   Didn't make any sense at all.   Other than maybe a back door deal to line  his own pockets.  2 x 10 today is like 2 x 17.   Imagine giving that to barely PPG guy, even if he was heading into the HHOF.  It seriously, would have made it really hard on the club, and it was his first play.  

I'll always defend Nonis thanks to the integrity he showed by not doing the Richards deal.  Selling high on Bertuzzi was a hell of a move too.  He did a lot of little things wrong, but nailed the big decisions.  He's behind only Quinn and Burke in my books.

Edited August 4, 2023 by King Heffy

[NewbieCanuckFan]

57 minutes ago, IBatch said:

Not just underrated, underserved firing.   I honestly didn't think MG was that much of a gem other then he was able to recognize we had a legit shot and didn't trade too many others.   His drafting team failed him miserably, and 100% get he wasn't drafting high often (Co-ho and Horvat via a trade, 9/10 overall).     Didn't understand why we didn't keep Nonis.  Not trading for Brad Richards ... if that story is true (good chance it is) then shame on ownership big time for firing him.   Supported MG while he was here and nothing against him going for it. 

 

Listened to Nonis last fall... he only cared about what was best for the team no matter what.    That's the sort of GM any team can be happy to have.   Some of his deals were a little rich ... but nothing like what MG did shortly after with Sundin.   That one, I will never understand given it was his client a few months prior.  Offered him close to the max for two years.   Didn't make any sense at all.   Other than maybe a back door deal to line  his own pockets.  2 x 10 today is like 2 x 17.   Imagine giving that to barely PPG guy, even if he was heading into the HHOF.  It seriously, would have made it really hard on the club, and it was his first play.    Other than that, MG did everything right.   Was a fabulous GM a for us.   Almost won a cup.   Best team in hockey for a couple seasons... made a ton of new fans for the club too. 

I think if JB had Nonis been his #2, the franchise would be better of today.  He compensates for Benning's weaknesses.  JB might be still the GM today.

Edited August 4, 2023 by NewbieCanuckFan

[Diamonds]

3 hours ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

In fairness to Nonis, he was the GM that drafted Grabner.  He's the tweener that Gillis let go for that HUGE mistake deal (Ballard).  I think Nonis' time as GM actually is a bit underrated here.  Also was the GM that signed free agent Mitchell (compare that to the free agent defensemen that Benning signed here).  As well, at least he knew hire a real NHL head coach.  Benning took 7 years & still couldn't figure it out.  Nonis never had the advantage of high 1st round picks unlike the guys that followed him.  Bourdon was his highest pick (10th overall).

 

As for the subject of this thread.....I agree with you.  A worthy gamble (not like we dealt them a 1st round pick).  Not all of them work out .

Nonis found some gems his first 2 drafts including Jannik Hansen in the 9th round as well as Edler and Raymond (and was solid with his firsts in Schneider and Bourdon). However his last draft in 2007 was absolutely brutal, headlined by taking Patrick White in the first round. How Gillis managed to turn Patrick White into Christian Erhoff is a miracle.

 

Nonis definitely doesn't get enough credit though for his early picks.

[NewbieCanuckFan]

17 minutes ago, Diamonds said:

Nonis found some gems his first 2 drafts including Jannik Hansen in the 9th round as well as Edler and Raymond (and was solid with his firsts in Schneider and Bourdon). However his last draft in 2007 was absolutely brutal, headlined by taking Patrick White in the first round. How Gillis managed to turn Patrick White into Christian Erhoff is a miracle.

 

Nonis definitely doesn't get enough credit though for his early picks.

I think people dwell too much on that one blown draft year (and it was THAT bad).  But still, nobody is perfect & I think he should've been given another year.

[King Heffy]

11 minutes ago, NewbieCanuckFan said:

I think people dwell too much on that one blown draft year (and it was THAT bad).  But still, nobody is perfect & I think he should've been given another year.

Really that one bad year was similar to every single draft from the idiot who replaced him.  Not sure what changed that off-season but Nonis wasn't the problem there.

[Alflives]

15 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Really that one bad year was similar to every single draft from the idiot who replaced him.  Not sure what changed that off-season but Nonis wasn't the problem there.

I thought Nonis was excellent. He wasn’t as great as Gillis (obviously Gillis was our best ever) but he did bring us Luongo. If we had Luongo sooner we win the Cup with those early 2000’s clubs. 

[King Heffy]

38 minutes ago, Alflives said:

I thought Nonis was excellent. He wasn’t as great as Gillis (obviously Gillis was our best ever) but he did bring us Luongo. If we had Luongo sooner we win the Cup with those early 2000’s clubs. 

Quinn and Burke are the only guys I have above Nonis.  Gillis was one of the worst GMs in the history of the sport and destroyed the solid core gifted to him by his predecessors.  Unlike Gillis, other teams have chosen to hire Nonis and Burke multiple times.

[Alflives]

2 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Quinn and Burke are the only guys I have above Nonis.  Gillis was one of the worst GMs in the history of the sport and destroyed the solid core gifted to him by his predecessors.  Unlike Gillis, other teams have chosen to hire Nonis and Burke multiple times.

What Canucks GM won the GM of the year, two Presidents’ trophies, and played two games to win the Cup? Yup. Only the Great Gillis. Our best ever GM, which isn’t arguable. Then we went to Benning. Our worst GM, which also isn’t arguable. 

[Kevin Biestra]

2 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What Canucks GM won the GM of the year, two Presidents’ trophies, and played two games to win the Cup? Yup. Only the Great Gillis. Our best ever GM, which isn’t arguable. Then we went to Benning. Our worst GM, which also isn’t arguable. 

 

I think you can argue a case for Quinn as the best.  Milford was no slouch either.  And Stan Smyl went undefeated as GM...

 

Yeah I can't really think of any serious competition for Jim Benning as worst.  He just kept getting more rope and tying it around his own balls.

[King Heffy]

3 minutes ago, Alflives said:

What Canucks GM won the GM of the year, two Presidents’ trophies, and played two games to win the Cup? Yup. Only the Great Gillis. Our best ever GM, which isn’t arguable. Then we went to Benning. Our worst GM, which also isn’t arguable. 

He won because he was gifted a strong core by people who were actually qualified to work in hockey ops.  He then proceeded to completely destroy that core with a level of incompetence rarely seen in any sport.  There is a reason no other team has been stupid enough to hire Gillis.  Even Sam Pollock would have had difficulty cleaning up the mess that clown left for him.

[King Heffy]

4 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I think you can argue a case for Quinn as the best.  Milford was no slouch either.  And Stan Smyl went undefeated as GM...

 

Yeah I can't really think of any serious competition for Jim Benning as worst.  He just kept getting more rope and tying it around his own balls.

Quinn put that 94 team together himself from scratch.

[canuck73_3]

8 minutes ago, Kevin Biestra said:

 

I think you can argue a case for Quinn as the best.  Milford was no slouch either.  And Stan Smyl went undefeated as GM...

 

Yeah I can't really think of any serious competition for Jim Benning as worst.  He just kept getting more rope and tying it around his own balls.

Harry Neale is up there Keenan did quite a bit of damage in his 9 month stint as coach/GM until Burke came in to clean up his mess. Best GM's in order imo 1. Quinn 2. Gillis 3. Burke Milford honorable mention 

Edited August 4, 2023 by canuck73_3

[canuck73_3]

5 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

He won because he was gifted a strong core by people who were actually qualified to work in hockey ops.  He then proceeded to completely destroy that core with a level of incompetence rarely seen in any sport.  There is a reason no other team has been stupid enough to hire Gillis.  Even Sam Pollock would have had difficulty cleaning up the mess that clown left for him.

disagree on that and Gillis hasn't even tried for a GM job until recently, so saying no one would hire him is false imo. He was nowhere near as bad as you claim. 

[Alflives]

9 minutes ago, King Heffy said:

Quinn put that 94 team together himself from scratch.

Quinn drafted Nedved instead of Jagr. Quinn was our second best GM and would be our best if not for that mistake. He was a great leader, that’s for sure. 

[Alflives]

10 minutes ago, canuck73_3 said:

Harry Neale is up there Keenan did quite a bit of damage in his 9 month stint as coach/GM until Burke came in to clean up his mess. Best GM's in order imo 1. Quinn 2. Gillis 3. Burke Milford honorable mention 

As horrid as Keenan was (and he was horrid) he did make the Linden trade which started that chain of players coming to us, including both Twins. But boy Keenan was just awful. I hated that trade, at the time, and hated Keenan. Him and Messier. 

[canuck73_3]

Just now, Alflives said:

Quinn drafted Nedved instead of Jagr. Quinn was our second best GM and would be our best if not for that mistake. He was a great leader, that’s for sure. 

Actually about that Jagr was recently on Spitting Chiclets and he made it known that Pittsburgh was the team he wanted to pick him so there was a chance he wouldn't sign with anyone but Pittsburgh. 

 

Nedved was a really good player in his own right it's a shame no matter where he went he never really got his ego in check. 

[canuck73_3]

Just now, Alflives said:

As horrid as Keenan was (and he was horrid) he did make the Linden trade which started that chain of players coming to us, including both Twins. But boy Keenan was just awful. I hated that trade, at the time, and hated Keenan. Him and Messier. 

Outside of that trade all he did was be a cancer this team took 4/5 years to recover from. And stripping the C from Linden is unforgivable imo.