Jump to content

Welcome to canucks.com Vancouver Canucks homepage

Photo

Tenn. Governor 'probably' Will Sign Evolution Bill


This topic has been archived. This means that you cannot reply to this topic.
23 replies to this topic

#1 dudeone

dudeone

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 807 posts
  • Joined: 17-February 04

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:05 PM

Tenn. governor 'probably' will sign evolution bill

By LUCAS L. JOHNSON II | Associated Press – Tue, Apr 3, 2012

http://news.yahoo.co...-205851280.html

NASHVILLE, Tenn. (AP) — Tennessee, where the nation's first big legal battle over evolution was fought nearly 90 years ago, is close to enacting a law that critics deride as the "monkey bill" for once again attacking the scientific theory.

The measure passed by the Tennessee General Assembly would protect teachers who allow students to criticize evolution and other scientific theories, such as global warming. Republican Gov. Bill Haslam said this week he would likely sign it into law.

Haslam said the State Board of Education has told him the measure won't affect the state's current scientific curriculum for primary, middle or high school students. Louisiana enacted a similar law in 2008.

"I think the one thing about that bill is this: Nothing about the curriculum of the state of Tennessee will change, and the scientific standards won't change," he said. "So I think some of the discussion about its impact has probably been overblown."

The bill says it would encourage critical thinking by protecting teachers from discipline if they help students critique "scientific weaknesses."

Scientists in Tennessee and the American Association for the Advancement of Science are asking Haslam to veto the bill, saying that evolution is established science that shouldn't be taught as a controversy.

"The Tennessee legislature is doing the unbelievable: attempting to roll the clock back to 1925 by attempting to insert religious beliefs in the teaching of science," three Tennessee scientists wrote in an op-ed column in The Tennessean.

The three writers hold doctorate degrees and are members of the National Academy of Sciences: Roger D. Cone and Jon Kaas of Vanderbilt University and Robert G. Webster of St. Jude Children's Research Hospital. They argue that the law is unnecessary and likely to provide expensive legal fights and hurt the economy in Tennessee, which is home to Oak Ridge National Laboratory.

The Tennessee Education Association called the bill a distraction from the most pressing education issues in the state.

"I think at a time when we're trying to put a focus on science, math, education; to pass something like this really sends a signal that the state is going backward instead of forward," TEA lobbyist Jerry Winters said. " ... They're avoiding the real problems in education by dealing with some of these emotional hot-button issues."
The state held the famous Scopes "monkey trial" in 1925 in Dayton, Tenn., and opponents of the legislation say evolution is still under attack in 2012.


School teacher John Scopes was convicted of violating state statute by teaching evolution in biology class and fined him $100. The Tennessee Supreme Court overturned it on a technicality a year later. In 1967, Tennessee's anti-evolution law was revoked.

Some believe the bill could open the door for religious teaching in the classroom. The American Civil Liberties Union of Tennessee asked the governor to veto it.

State ACLU executive director Hedy Weinberg said allowing students to critique "scientific weaknesses" is language frequently used by those seeking to introduce non-scientific ideas like creationism and intelligent design into science curriculum.

"No one doubts the value of critical thinking to any serious course of scientific study, but this legislation is not truly aimed at developing students' critical thinking skills," she wrote.

House sponsor Bill Dunn, a Knoxville Republican, said the proposal states that it is "not ... construed to promote religion."

"What the bill says is that as long as you stick to objective scientific facts, then you can bring that into play," the Knoxville Republican said. "So if students start asking questions or if there's debate on it, it's not a one-sided debate. But it is a fair debate, in that it's objective scientific facts that are brought forward."

#2 g_bassi13

g_bassi13

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,626 posts
  • Joined: 11-December 06

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:06 PM

:picard:

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

On the off-chance I die, gbassi, I love you.


#3 Stefan

Stefan

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,355 posts
  • Joined: 18-September 03

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:07 PM

I'm glad I'm a pastafarian.
Posted Image

#4 Satan's Evil Twin

Satan's Evil Twin

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,028 posts
  • Joined: 02-September 06

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:08 PM

Just another day in Jesusland. At least they're taking a break from attacking women's rights.

Posted Image

Edited by Scorpio Ego, 05 April 2012 - 12:10 PM.

Posted Image


Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image


#5 MacdeesSnipinGs

MacdeesSnipinGs

    Comets Prospect

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPip
  • 272 posts
  • Joined: 06-February 11

Posted 05 April 2012 - 12:14 PM

Dis is Merica...Land of da free and home of da brave! I dont know alot about much, but i do know one thang..I didn't come from no Monkay! Hail babay jesus and dont question his authroitay....what's more plausible....Bearded man creating world in 7 days, orrrrr science...pffff, lets get reel. I would continue to prove my point but jeff gordon, is down at the Home De-pot, signing his Jhon Hancock.

Obama is a muslim, educated elitist who is probally a terrorist. Vote Rick Santorum/Jesus/ sweatervest 2012....

#6 Heretic

Heretic

    Canucks All-Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 15,695 posts
  • Joined: 08-April 07

Posted 05 April 2012 - 01:10 PM

Just another day in Jesusland. At least they're taking a break from attacking women's rights.

Posted Image


:picard: This post is no different than those that claim to follow Christianity and hold up those "God hates ____" signs.

McCoy: We were speculating. Is God really out there?
Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

Posted Image


#7 Satan's Evil Twin

Satan's Evil Twin

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,028 posts
  • Joined: 02-September 06

Posted 05 April 2012 - 02:03 PM

:picard: This post is no different than those that claim to follow Christianity and hold up those "God hates ____" signs.


No, of course this is just like going to a soldier's funeral with signs thanking god for his death and disrupting the private family event (in hopes someone assaults you so you can sue them, seeing as half your family are lawyers). No you're absolutely right, posting anonymously on a public message board things critical of religious doctrine that flies in the face of known science and costing thousands of children a potential future is totally the same thing.

When I said "more false equivalences, please", I wasn't all that serious mate. That's on par with Hitler and Nazi analogies. :sadno:

Posted Image


Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image


#8 Buggernut

Buggernut

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 32,506 posts
  • Joined: 15-March 03

Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:00 PM

Meanwhile, I'm sure the Nashville Predators board is buzzing with talk about Christy Clark.

#9 xWCMx

xWCMx

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,032 posts
  • Joined: 09-February 06

Posted 06 April 2012 - 03:14 PM

Am I missing something here? It says in the article that the curriculum would not be changed in any way shape or form, and the same things would be taught. The only difference is, if a student in science class brought up creationism or tried to debunk global warming, the teacher could face disciplinary action if he or she encourages it in any way. If passed, this would not be the case. If anything, this bill would promote freedom of speech, would it not?

Edited by xWCMx, 06 April 2012 - 03:15 PM.

Posted Image

Sig removed - inappropriate ^ how was this inappropriate?

#10 Buddhas Hand

Buddhas Hand

    Canucks Second-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 4,362 posts
  • Joined: 19-December 11

Posted 06 April 2012 - 07:22 PM

Just another day in Jesusland. At least they're taking a break from attacking women's rights.

Posted Image

right on scorpio .from what i have been reading this is a sign of christianity's , and the catholic church in particular , desire to become more invovled in the political process , in order to promote themselves and their beliefs .
"These are the things to keep in mind. These are not just academic exercises. We're not analyzing the media on Mars or in the eighteenth century or something like that. We're dealing with real human beings who are suffering and dying and being tortured and starving because of policies that we are involved in, we as citizens of democratic societies are directly involved in and are responsible for, and what the media are doing is ensuring that we do not act on our responsibilities, and that the interests of power are served, not the needs of the suffering people, and not even the needs of the American people who would be horrified if they realized the blood that's dripping from their hands because of the way they are allowing themselves to be deluded and manipulated by the system."
Noam Chomsky

Jesus didn’t say yes to everyone. I mean Jesus knew that there was a place for everything and it is not necessarily everyone’s place to come to Australia
Tony Abbott......Current Australian PM

#11 nucklehead

nucklehead

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,178 posts
  • Joined: 23-March 03

Posted 06 April 2012 - 08:55 PM

Am I missing something here? It says in the article that the curriculum would not be changed in any way shape or form, and the same things would be taught. The only difference is, if a student in science class brought up creationism or tried to debunk global warming, the teacher could face disciplinary action if he or she encourages it in any way. If passed, this would not be the case. If anything, this bill would promote freedom of speech, would it not?


We have a winner! Explain to me though why a law is needed to protect anyone from prosecustion because they choose to argue a point. These rights are already guaranteed through the Constitution, theoritically.

Edited by nucklehead, 06 April 2012 - 08:57 PM.

Posted Image

If the way Torts stepped up doesn't inspire anyone to work harder, I'll drive them to the airport myself.

</p>

#12 g_bassi13

g_bassi13

    Canucks First-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 6,626 posts
  • Joined: 11-December 06

Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:28 AM

Am I missing something here? It says in the article that the curriculum would not be changed in any way shape or form, and the same things would be taught. The only difference is, if a student in science class brought up creationism or tried to debunk global warming, the teacher could face disciplinary action if he or she encourages it in any way. If passed, this would not be the case. If anything, this bill would promote freedom of speech, would it not?


Freedom of speech is something that doesn't apply here. Allowing such practices as these would be extremely disruptive to the learning process. A teachers job is to teach, not to promote their own, or some students, theories on the subject.

Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

On the off-chance I die, gbassi, I love you.


#13 Hugemanskost

Hugemanskost

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,376 posts
  • Joined: 31-December 09

Posted 07 April 2012 - 01:57 AM

I teach Grade 9 Science in Small Town, BC. Reproduction is the Biology topic at this level... Sexual / Asexual Reproduction, Mitosis, Meiosis, the Cell Cycle. Every semester, the topic of Evolution vs. Creation comes up in my class. I have to explain to the kids that, regardless of my personal views and values, I am teaching Evolution as a "theory" only ( ;) ) and if Creation is raised as an alternate theory, our class will discuss it as such. I then explain that our Government requires us to teach the "Theory of Evolution" and that this is what we will discuss from here on in.

I have never had a student refuse to study Evolution as a "theory".

:towel: :canucks:

webkit-fake-url://D8829558-F65F-49B9-9829-A7DFC7F2E6E4/application.pdf


:towel: :canucks:


#14 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,533 posts
  • Joined: 02-September 09

Posted 07 April 2012 - 08:00 AM

I teach Grade 9 Science in Small Town, BC. Reproduction is the Biology topic at this level... Sexual / Asexual Reproduction, Mitosis, Meiosis, the Cell Cycle. Every semester, the topic of Evolution vs. Creation comes up in my class. I have to explain to the kids that, regardless of my personal views and values, I am teaching Evolution as a "theory" only ( ;) ) and if Creation is raised as an alternate theory, our class will discuss it as such. I then explain that our Government requires us to teach the "Theory of Evolution" and that this is what we will discuss from here on in.

I have never had a student refuse to study Evolution as a "theory".

:towel: :canucks:

Creationism is not a theory as there is no evidence whatsoever to support it. If you discuss it beyond that fact then you are doing your class a disservice.
Posted Image

#15 VICanucksfan5551

VICanucksfan5551

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,046 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 04

Posted 07 April 2012 - 12:17 PM

I teach Grade 9 Science in Small Town, BC. Reproduction is the Biology topic at this level... Sexual / Asexual Reproduction, Mitosis, Meiosis, the Cell Cycle. Every semester, the topic of Evolution vs. Creation comes up in my class. I have to explain to the kids that, regardless of my personal views and values, I am teaching Evolution as a "theory" only ( ;) ) and if Creation is raised as an alternate theory, our class will discuss it as such. I then explain that our Government requires us to teach the "Theory of Evolution" and that this is what we will discuss from here on in.

I have never had a student refuse to study Evolution as a "theory".

:towel: :canucks:

Do you teach gravity as a "theory" only? How about germ "theory"?
Posted Image
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#16 Columbo

Columbo

    Canucks Franchise Player

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 13,886 posts
  • Joined: 04-May 04

Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:50 AM

Do you teach gravity as a "theory" only? How about germ "theory"?

Actually gravity is a very interesting subject to discuss as a theory. Or better yet, theories.

#17 JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

JoeyJoeJoeJr. Shabadoo

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,533 posts
  • Joined: 02-September 09

Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:41 AM

I teach Grade 9 Science in Small Town, BC. Reproduction is the Biology topic at this level... Sexual / Asexual Reproduction, Mitosis, Meiosis, the Cell Cycle. Every semester, the topic of Evolution vs. Creation comes up in my class. I have to explain to the kids that, regardless of my personal views and values, I am teaching Evolution as a "theory" only ( ;) ) and if Creation is raised as an alternate theory, our class will discuss it as such. I then explain that our Government requires us to teach the "Theory of Evolution" and that this is what we will discuss from here on in.

I have never had a student refuse to study Evolution as a "theory".

:towel: :canucks:


I was kind of hoping you would respond and/or clarify your stance on this matter. At the moment it looks like you are abusing your position to push your beliefs on children. As a parent, if I got wind of this I would report you to the teacher regulation branch. Please tell me you don't tell children you teach evolution because the government says you have to. If this is the case I suggest you find a new profession.
Posted Image

#18 VICanucksfan5551

VICanucksfan5551

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 8,046 posts
  • Joined: 11-August 04

Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:59 AM

Actually gravity is a very interesting subject to discuss as a theory. Or better yet, theories.

Oh, absolutely. I was oversimplifying things a little. We're actually a hell of a lot less certain about gravity than we are about evolution. To the best of my knowledge though, none of the varying hypotheses on gravity deny its existence ;).
Posted Image
Posted ImagePosted ImagePosted ImagePosted Image

#19 The Situation

The Situation

    Canucks Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 7,698 posts
  • Joined: 13-May 09

Posted 08 April 2012 - 10:01 AM

I teach Grade 9 Science in Small Town, BC. Reproduction is the Biology topic at this level... Sexual / Asexual Reproduction, Mitosis, Meiosis, the Cell Cycle. Every semester, the topic of Evolution vs. Creation comes up in my class. I have to explain to the kids that, regardless of my personal views and values, I am teaching Evolution as a "theory" only ( ;) ) and if Creation is raised as an alternate theory, our class will discuss it as such. I then explain that our Government requires us to teach the "Theory of Evolution" and that this is what we will discuss from here on in.

I have never had a student refuse to study Evolution as a "theory".

:towel: :canucks:


Come on dude, that's just wrong. A belief is a not a theory. You either believe in it or you don't, there is just no science to back it up.
Posted Image

#20 Ghostsof1915

Ghostsof1915

    Canucks Hall-of-Famer

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 21,428 posts
  • Joined: 31-January 07

Posted 08 April 2012 - 12:52 PM

Maybe if we teach kids string theory they will be engineers and scientists.

That is if we can get teachers to understand it.

:bigblush:

Edited by Ghostsof1915, 08 April 2012 - 12:54 PM.

GO CANUCKS GO!
"The Canucks did not lose in 1994. They just ran out of time.." Barry MacDonald Team1040

Posted Image

#21 JamesTW

JamesTW

    Canucks Rookie

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,619 posts
  • Joined: 13-March 10

Posted 08 April 2012 - 09:40 PM

I teach Grade 9 Science in Small Town, BC. Reproduction is the Biology topic at this level... Sexual / Asexual Reproduction, Mitosis, Meiosis, the Cell Cycle. Every semester, the topic of Evolution vs. Creation comes up in my class. I have to explain to the kids that, regardless of my personal views and values, I am teaching Evolution as a "theory" only ( ;) ) and if Creation is raised as an alternate theory, our class will discuss it as such. I then explain that our Government requires us to teach the "Theory of Evolution" and that this is what we will discuss from here on in.

I have never had a student refuse to study Evolution as a "theory".

:towel: :canucks:

Creationism isn't a theory. If you are going to teach science perhaps you should try learning what becoming a scientific theory entails. I weep for your students.

Edited by JamesTW, 08 April 2012 - 09:41 PM.


#22 Aleksandr Pistoletov

Aleksandr Pistoletov

    Canucks Regular

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,848 posts
  • Joined: 07-April 03

Posted 09 April 2012 - 09:15 AM

I see no intrinsic issue with criticizing scientific theories, especially the issue of embellished anthropogenic climate change and faulty climate models, but uhm, science classes in the US certainly allow for criticism and discussion of evolution. Any teacher that religiously preaches evolution should be called out and fired, the point of teaching evolution isn't merely to suggest evolution but prove it through a series of topics. That's a good thing. Scepticism and repeatedly making one prove things is what increases the probability of truth. But given where this comes from and the usual focus on science education, I'm sure it's more about being able to institute religion in public schools than further science by rightful scepticism. Gotta love the geniuses in power in the bible belt that need to toy around with their Christian puppet citizens dangling the puppet strings and reminding them to stay polarized. If only Christians knew how much this is really an attempt to manipulate their beliefs and steer their vote choice in the bigger picture rather than give their beliefs a voice in a science class.

Edited by zaibatsu, 09 April 2012 - 09:16 AM.

How do you embarrass a crackhead wearing a viking helmet?

How do you roast charcoal? -- Jeff Ross

#23 MadMonk

MadMonk

    Comets Star

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 537 posts
  • Joined: 11-January 03

Posted 10 April 2012 - 06:39 AM

I see no intrinsic issue with criticizing scientific theories, especially the issue of embellished anthropogenic climate change and faulty climate models, but uhm, science classes in the US certainly allow for criticism and discussion of evolution... Scepticism and repeatedly making one prove things is what increases the probability of truth.

In principle, criticizing scientific theories is a useful exercise, but in practice it cannot be done properly in the classroom, as your average elementary/highschool student simply does not have the necessary education to separate a good argument from a bad (even scientifically wrong one). Most of the "facts" presented to challenge evolution/climate change are usually fundamentally flawed, yet they sound plausible on the surface that they fool even educated people. Thus in reality if you let a teacher "present the other side", you are most often allowing the teacher to present an incorrect, biased view, rather than genuine scientific scepticism.

#24 Satan's Evil Twin

Satan's Evil Twin

    Canucks Third-Line

  • Members
  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 3,028 posts
  • Joined: 02-September 06

Posted 11 April 2012 - 11:51 AM

Tennessee’s Anti-Science Bill Becomes Law


Posted Image
By John Timmer, Ars Technica

After the US Supreme Court’s 1987 decision forbidding the teaching of creationism in science classes, those who objected to the teaching of evolution modified their ideas slightly. They relabeled these ideas “Intelligent Design.” In the wake of that tactic’s defeat in the courts, the opponents of science education retooled again.
This time, they targeted a number of state legislatures with two categories of bills that shared nearly identical wording. This tactic saw success in Louisiana, although a number of similar bills were considered in other states. They’ve now achieved their second success — the passage of a law in Tennessee.

One approach to diluting science education was a series of bills that allowed schools to use supplementary materials in science classes; conveniently, the anti-evolution Discovery Institute published a supplementary text at about the same time.

An alternate approach has appeared in a number of bills (again, all with nearly identical language) that would protect teachers who present the “strengths and weaknesses” of scientific theories, although the bills single out evolution, climate change, and a couple of topics that aren’t even theories. Again, the goal seems to be to use neutral language that will allow teachers to reiterate many of the spurious arguments against the widely accepted scientific understandings. Tennessee’s House and Senate hadpassed a bill that took precisely this approach.

The state’s governor, saying the bill doesn’t “bring clarity,” has decided not to sign it. But he’s decided not to veto it either, which will allow it to become law.

Although a detailed discussion of open issues within all scientific theories might make some pedagogic sense, the bill will undoubtedly function as its designers intended. Teachers with a strong agenda will be able to bring up discredited arguments against the mainstream scientific understanding. And, should they ever do that in front of a student from a family with equally strong views, the result will inevitably be a lawsuit that will hold the local school district responsible.
http://www.wired.com...ntiscience-law/


Edited by Scorpio Ego, 11 April 2012 - 11:51 AM.

Posted Image


Father (Peace be upon You) Satan (Peace be upon You), I call to you (Peace be upon You) from the deepest parts of my heart, I praise your (Peace be upon You) name with every breath of my body, I worship you (Peace be upon You) with every fiber of my being. You (Peace be upon You) shown me what true strength is. You (Peace be upon You) have shown me what true love is. Out of the darkness you (Peace be upon You) came to show me the true light.


My master (Peace be upon You), my father (Peace be upon You) and my friend (Peace be upon You) what a great gift that is.


Posted Image Hail to the King (PBUH)! Posted Image





Canucks.com is the official Web site of The Vancouver Canucks. The Vancouver Canucks and Canucks.com are trademarks of The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership.  NHL and the word mark and image of the Stanley Cup are registered trademarks and the NHL Shield and NHL Conference logos are trademarks of the National Hockey League. All NHL logos and marks and NHL team logos and marks as well as all other proprietary materials depicted herein are the property of the NHL and the respective NHL teams and may not be reproduced without the prior written consent of NHL Enterprises, L.P.  Copyright © 2009 The Vancouver Canucks Limited Partnership and the National Hockey League.  All Rights Reserved.