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Is The Nhl 'fixed' ?


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#31 pwnstar

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Posted 17 April 2012 - 12:58 PM

the nhl isn't fixed, just bettman is :bigblush:
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#32 Warm_Paw

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Posted 18 April 2012 - 07:22 AM

Play pro line - you'll believe it's fixed.
How many tie games do we see these days.
They've quadrupled.
The NHL has become a sensationalized soap opera.
Probably about ratings.
Whole teams don't need to be fixed. Key players.
Even coaching decisions affect a game.
Watch Crosby fight. My woman throws a cleaner punch.
If it were a real fight he'd be handed his head.
Cherry's right - he's not a tough guy.
He's a kid.

Hossa - he takes a hard hit.
It's hockey.
Anyone who plays gets their bell wrung.
You have hockey equipment and your in shape if you're in the NHL.
He's carried out like it's a car accident.
He'll be skating in next game like nothing happened.
If that's not theater with a purpose, I don't know what is.

Hockey will become cigarette like soccer where they crawl into a fetal position complete with thumb sucking when they break a nail.
What happened to hockey players that were too tough to whine about the pain.
Strength is not the priority anymore.

The world where everyone's a victim is hitting hockey.

So is it fixed?

I was worried Rick Tocchet was running pro line...
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#33 whcanuck

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:12 PM

Fixed is a strong word, but I do believe they have certain preferences to who wins the Stanley Cup. Most people will say I'm just a butthurt Canucks fans, so be it. I don't care what they say. When the officiating was one-sided in the Chicago series in 2011 in game 6, the Blackhawks won the game, a very very close game that could have gone either way. When Gillis stepped up and said something, "oh he's just a cry baby, there goes the crybaby Canucks, never won a Stanley Cup blah blah blah." He pointed out statistics, which never lie. The next game, the refs called it fair and the Canucks absolutely dominate. If it wasn't for Crawford the score would have been 5-1. The Stanley Cup wins that I believe were helped along were Pittsburgh in '09, Chicago in '10 and Boston in '11. I think Los Angeles won it pretty legitimately, mostly because the game is called to cater to their style, which is not their fault and their team was stacked. The league has very little to gain from Los Angeles winning, but Pittsburgh, Chicago and Boston? Two of the three are original six teams and Pittsburgh's got Sidney. Yes, put on my tinfoil hat the naysayers will say. And they're entitled to their opinion. But watch some series that involve Canadian teams that do not involve the Canucks. You will not be pleased with what you see. Montreal and Boston from 2011? So many blatant fouls let go that Boston committed. I'm a Canucks fan and I live in the midwest, about two hours from Chicago, two years ago all I ever heard was "Chicago is such a young team, they're so likeable, theyre so exciting, they're so talented, hockey's finally back in Chicago." Hockey never left Chicago for one thing. And when you're trying to market something what's the best way to get the product out there? Have them win the most famous trophy in sports. Now their attendance has skyrocketed and the league just took a once-pathetic market, and turned it into a huge profit. Ask yourself this, would Chicago or Boston have the attendance they do without the cup wins? I can't prove they wouldn't, but I have a strong inkling they wouldn't. The league has nothing to gain by Canadian teams winning the Stanley Cup, the game is so so so popular here the fans live it. But when an American team with struggling attendance figures win it, the lure of the American television deal, the American dollar buying expensive seats to the game, the American dollar buying merchandise left and right. The profit is immense. From a business standpoint, it makes total sense for the league to favor the 22 American teams versus the 8 Canadian ones. But it doesn't mean us fans have to like that our once proud league and game has been twisted and perverted for big business greed. Again, I'm probably just another butthurt Canucks fan according to most, but that's just how i feel. Go Canucks!
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#34 Hobble

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 01:24 PM

I would not be surprised if Phoenix gets the 1st overall this year.
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#35 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:31 PM

The NHL is more 'broken' right now than anything.


It remains to be seen whether they can get their fans back, given how south the entertainment value has gone in the last few months of NHL action.

As much i love the Canucks, it's going to pain me to watch that crap called they NHL hockey ever again. League-wide problems for years, not just our loss against with the Kings. Shady, shady, shady. And crap-looking play since January last season. Hey, if somebody wants to honestly pay big bucks to see a bunch of damn hand holds, they'd go to a UFC event.
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#36 mbal23

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:46 PM

Given the obvious 'management' of games. . .

Given the completely inconsistent officiating that ALWAYS seems to favour keeping games close and ... teams in it. . .

Given the favouritism shown to small market american teams. . .

Given the completely amorphus standards. . .

Given that Shanahan is a complete joke. . .

Given that all the old referees have been run out of the game. . .

Is there any other conclusion than the NHL is now the WWF?

#turnitoff


It's not the world wildlife foundation.
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#37 mbal23

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:47 PM

Given the obvious 'management' of games. . .

Given the completely inconsistent officiating that ALWAYS seems to favour keeping games close and ... teams in it. . .

Given the favouritism shown to small market american teams. . .

Given the completely amorphus standards. . .

Given that Shanahan is a complete joke. . .

Given that all the old referees have been run out of the game. . .

Is there any other conclusion than the NHL is now the WWF?

#turnitoff


It's not the world wildlife foundation.
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#38 canuck_trevor16

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

The NHL is not fixed but various time when there is a conflict of interest aka Jacob chairman of BOG and Campbell in the NHL office, Nothing is done about it.........NHL is more corrupted now than before
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One day some of us will look back on the year and look at the chicago, and most of us will realize that it was a small bump in the road to the cup


WIN THE CUP FOR SALO CAMPAIGN

#39 Gooseberries

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:53 PM

The NHL is more 'broken' right now than anything.


It remains to be seen whether they can get their fans back, given how south the entertainment value has gone in the last few months of NHL action.

As much i love the Canucks, it's going to pain me to watch that crap called they NHL hockey ever again. League-wide problems for years, not just our loss against with the Kings. Shady, shady, shady. And crap-looking play since January last season. Hey, if somebody wants to honestly pay big bucks to see a bunch of damn hand holds, they'd go to a UFC event.

i don't understand how the rules can completely change every offseason. torres hits hard and yes sometimes crosses a line with it but hitting is a huge part of the game and is used as a momentum shift. Weber smashes zetterbergs head into the glass after the end of the game multiple times. no suspension only a lame fine that he can pay for with the change rolling around in his car. I wouldn't say the NHL is fixed but definitely biased
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#40 Kamero89

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 02:57 PM

There are defiantly conflicting issues. How can Shanny be allowed to suspend players, when he has had positive had negative relationships with 90% of the league?

I will say the NHL likes close games. I can't remember the stat exactly, but the trailing team in the final 2 mins, is like 70% more likely than the other team of getting a PP.
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#41 Drybone

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 03:45 PM

You cant outright 'rig' a professional sport like this. However, the refs can play a powerful motivator.

Ask any player or coach or GM , and the players will try to set a 'tone' based on the reputations of the refs and on their own reputation and if they are at home or not.

The refs call good and bad games, but where the rigging really comes from is the decisions in Toronto. The stupid video replay has been bent out of shape way to far too often for me to believe that it is honestly objective in opinion.

So the league tries to balance two things. First is its integrity, but a close second is its RATINGS and PROFIT. So we all know that teams winning the cup down south is big money for the league. I dont think a Canadian team winning the cup will matter in the slightest anymore to selling tickets.

So the refs and league do 'massage' the calls but there is no way to outright rig it without calling into question the reputation of the game itself. So they have to walk a fine line.

Think we are bad? Try running back a 100 touchdown all to have a ref whip out a flag for some ridiculous thing and have the play cancelled.

Now THAT is rigging.
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#42 SamJamIam

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Posted 03 December 2012 - 07:11 PM

I'm decidedly anti-conspiracy but if you know a bit about economics, you know about the prisoner's dilemma. A badly-designed system of rules and various other pressures can create strong personal motivations for the refs. These pressures include keeping playoff series close, a desire to endear oneself to the NHL (which usually means favouring the sunbelt teams) and to make as many regular season games interesting (via lenient interpretations of icing, offside, calling a play dead, where to have faceoffs, etc). As a ref, you could simply choose to call a by-the-book game but if other refs don't follow suit, you're probably out of a job. The refs per se are fairly neutral in this regard but by weighing their options, they do the thing that is in their own self-interests by creating parity. This all leads to a very contrived game, even if the specific bounces can't be controlled.

Basically it's an organization thats broken from the top-down. Until the Bettman "hockey is a business" regime is out, the many staff of the league won't have any significant motivation to do anything but weather the storm. The positive side in all if this is that the bigger the stink CBA negotiations make, the more likely sponsors and owners will feel someone with a new attitude needs to take the helm.
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#43 Riviera82

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:15 AM

I dont believe regular season games are overly rigged most of the time, maybe a little biased here and there, depending on the circumstances.
The playoffs are another story IMO. Bettman definitely has a preference of who wins the SC every season and I think his word probably goes down the chain of command through to the on-ice officials, and in turn they will try to influence the result of certain games, if need be that is. If Bettman's preferred team is facing weak opposition, then they keep the officiating as legitimate as possible.
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you must but I truly believe this kind of thing does or has happened at some time.
Does no one else find it odd that before Bettman's reign, canadian teams won the cup with regularity? In the last 17 seasons 5 canadian teams (Vancouver twice) have made the SCF and they all lost. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not?
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#44 Baggins

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 06:23 AM

Fixed is a strong word, but I do believe they have certain preferences to who wins the Stanley Cup. Most people will say I'm just a butthurt Canucks fans, so be it. I don't care what they say. When the officiating was one-sided in the Chicago series in 2011 in game 6, the Blackhawks won the game, a very very close game that could have gone either way. When Gillis stepped up and said something, "oh he's just a cry baby, there goes the crybaby Canucks, never won a Stanley Cup blah blah blah." He pointed out statistics, which never lie. The next game, the refs called it fair and the Canucks absolutely dominate. If it wasn't for Crawford the score would have been 5-1. The Stanley Cup wins that I believe were helped along were Pittsburgh in '09, Chicago in '10 and Boston in '11. I think Los Angeles won it pretty legitimately, mostly because the game is called to cater to their style, which is not their fault and their team was stacked. The league has very little to gain from Los Angeles winning, but Pittsburgh, Chicago and Boston? Two of the three are original six teams and Pittsburgh's got Sidney. Yes, put on my tinfoil hat the naysayers will say. And they're entitled to their opinion. But watch some series that involve Canadian teams that do not involve the Canucks. You will not be pleased with what you see. Montreal and Boston from 2011? So many blatant fouls let go that Boston committed. I'm a Canucks fan and I live in the midwest, about two hours from Chicago, two years ago all I ever heard was "Chicago is such a young team, they're so likeable, theyre so exciting, they're so talented, hockey's finally back in Chicago." Hockey never left Chicago for one thing. And when you're trying to market something what's the best way to get the product out there? Have them win the most famous trophy in sports. Now their attendance has skyrocketed and the league just took a once-pathetic market, and turned it into a huge profit. Ask yourself this, would Chicago or Boston have the attendance they do without the cup wins? I can't prove they wouldn't, but I have a strong inkling they wouldn't. The league has nothing to gain by Canadian teams winning the Stanley Cup, the game is so so so popular here the fans live it. But when an American team with struggling attendance figures win it, the lure of the American television deal, the American dollar buying expensive seats to the game, the American dollar buying merchandise left and right. The profit is immense. From a business standpoint, it makes total sense for the league to favor the 22 American teams versus the 8 Canadian ones. But it doesn't mean us fans have to like that our once proud league and game has been twisted and perverted for big business greed. Again, I'm probably just another butthurt Canucks fan according to most, but that's just how i feel. Go Canucks!


Pittsburgh attendance:
05/06 15,804
06/07 16,424
07/08 17,076
08/09 16,975 won cup
09/10 17,078

Chicago attendance:
06/07 12,727
07/08 16,814
08/09 22,247
09/10 21,356 won cup
10/11 21,423

Boston attendance:
07/08 15,384
08/09 17,039
09/10 17,388
10/11 17,565 won cup
11/12 17,565

LA Attendance:
08/09 16,488
09/10 17,313
10/11 18,083
11/12 17,920 won cup

http://www.hockeydb....nhl-attendance/


So much for your theory. The truth is attendance improved as those teams improved. Therefore there was no reason for the league to hand them the cup to attract fans as the fans were already there.
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#45 Drybone

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 07:24 AM

I dont believe regular season games are overly rigged most of the time, maybe a little biased here and there, depending on the circumstances.
The playoffs are another story IMO. Bettman definitely has a preference of who wins the SC every season and I think his word probably goes down the chain of command through to the on-ice officials, and in turn they will try to influence the result of certain games, if need be that is. If Bettman's preferred team is facing weak opposition, then they keep the officiating as legitimate as possible.
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you must but I truly believe this kind of thing does or has happened at some time.
Does no one else find it odd that before Bettman's reign, canadian teams won the cup with regularity? In the last 17 seasons 5 canadian teams (Vancouver twice) have made the SCF and they all lost. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not?


I agree. There is no doubt in my mind after watching this game so many decades that it increasingly is being managed on and off the ice. The league wants parity, and ESPECIALLY to grow it in areas it has no business being in. Stanley cups in Carolina , Tampa , Los Angeles Dallas. Places where hockey is not a natural sport. Its as natural as having it in Havana.

From a league standpoint, there has been little point to having a Canadian team win the cup. It has long since been shown to do absolutely NOTHING to increase revenue. Vancouver and Montreal only need have a playoff team most of the time to sell out consistently but still charge insane prices.

Toronto and the Rangers are the actual cash cows who have shown the owners that if your fans are RABID enough, you can charge whatever you want and the team can SUCK and it still wont matter. Show me an EMPTY air canada center and I will show you a Leafs team that will soon get 10 power plays per game. Until then, keep sucking leafs. Save the playoff spots for those Palm Tree cities.

But the league can only go so far. If it starts to outright try to give games to teams, the media will begin to roast them alive. And if the media calls them out, the games credibility suffers and THEN the ticket sales will plummet big time. So they can only go so far.

Its more like 'nudging' rather than outright shoving even though sometimes they get caught pushing a little too hard.
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#46 CanucksFan9

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 08:25 AM

Fixed? Not exactly. Influenced, skewed, and adjusted to try and meet business goals and objectives? Without a doubt. The lockout isn't going to make it any better, sadly.
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#47 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:06 AM

The Ducks winning the cup didn't exactly breed a bunch of loyal fans in Anaheim. Attendance is the lowest it's been in 10 years.

Colorado also saw attendance drop.

Dallas as well.

While Florida's is on the rise. Nashville too.


Is the NHL is indeed fixing cup winners, i'm not certain what the point is. It's not as if that kind of success will turn their fairweather fans into forever loyal ones.

Basically, fans like winners, and will only go to see winners. (Unless they're TO or Habs fans.) There are only a handful of markets that will keep their arenas filled during losing years. Not even NJ can keep their arena filled, despite winning multiple cups.
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#48 literaphile

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 11:25 AM

Call me a conspiracy theorist if you must but I truly believe this kind of thing does or has happened at some time.
Does no one else find it odd that before Bettman's reign, canadian teams won the cup with regularity? In the last 17 seasons 5 canadian teams (Vancouver twice) have made the SCF and they all lost. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not?


I think it's a coincidence. Look at the numbers: how many Canadian teams are there in the league? How many American teams? In the past 17 years there have been 6-7 Canadian teams in the NHL, and approximately four times more American teams. So it makes sense that the finals will likely be dominated by American teams, especially since not all Canadian teams make the playoffs every year (in fact, that's very rare).
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#49 Drybone

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 12:09 PM

The Ducks winning the cup didn't exactly breed a bunch of loyal fans in Anaheim. Attendance is the lowest it's been in 10 years.

Colorado also saw attendance drop.

Dallas as well.

While Florida's is on the rise. Nashville too.


Is the NHL is indeed fixing cup winners, i'm not certain what the point is. It's not as if that kind of success will turn their fairweather fans into forever loyal ones.

Basically, fans like winners, and will only go to see winners. (Unless they're TO or Habs fans.) There are only a handful of markets that will keep their arenas filled during losing years. Not even NJ can keep their arena filled, despite winning multiple cups.


You havent explained what would happen if these teams DIDNT win the cup. The stars would have been relocated. The Avs likewise............their original team went to NJ by the way. The devils team would have not survived but it was a playoff team by 1988 .

The obvious cases are Atlanta and Phoenix . Without any real success, they sucked large and one is in Winnipeg and the other artificially propped up by the league.

In fact, without transfer payments, the Panthers are ghosts. Even tampa bay was in serious trouble only 6 years after winning the cup and still remains unstable. Where would they be if they HAD NOT won the cup at all?

In spite of all the fantastic talent Nashville has shown on the ice, Trots has not been able to move them anywhere, and many of their high end talent FLED for nothing. They even had to get by an ultimatum by the league to sell 14k seats or lose their transfer payments. I think if Weber left the franchise would have been on the edge of disaster. But now Weber is locked up , until he demands a trade that is.........

The only team that has hung on in spite of sucking royally has been the New York Islanders, and even they are now relocating to Brooklyn. And the only reason they survived was a huge gallery of hall of famers they could draw on and 4 stanley cups they could remember.

So while I do hear what you are saying, I believe the american teams MUST win while the canadian teams dont make a noticeable bit of difference at all. So why not just have 30 canadian teams?

Because the on ice tickets sales and merchandising are all SMALL POTATOES compared to the real cheese cake. The television deals. And that will have to come from Rich Americans. Rich Americans live ALL OVER the US. not just the northern US.

Thus the rust belt /sun belt teams.
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#50 skolozsy2

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:01 PM

I dont believe regular season games are overly rigged most of the time, maybe a little biased here and there, depending on the circumstances.
The playoffs are another story IMO. Bettman definitely has a preference of who wins the SC every season and I think his word probably goes down the chain of command through to the on-ice officials, and in turn they will try to influence the result of certain games, if need be that is. If Bettman's preferred team is facing weak opposition, then they keep the officiating as legitimate as possible.
Call me a conspiracy theorist if you must but I truly believe this kind of thing does or has happened at some time.
Does no one else find it odd that before Bettman's reign, canadian teams won the cup with regularity? In the last 17 seasons 5 canadian teams (Vancouver twice) have made the SCF and they all lost. Coincidence? Maybe, maybe not?


yes, i do find it odd that before Bettman, Canadian teams were winning so regularly. How could the smaller percentage of Canadian teams win so many Cups when there was a larger percentage of American teams? Guess that means the NHL must of been rigged for the Canadian teams prior to Bettman, right?

See, I can play that game too!
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#51 Dogbyte

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:22 PM

yes, i do find it odd that before Bettman, Canadian teams were winning so regularly. How could the smaller percentage of Canadian teams win so many Cups when there was a larger percentage of American teams? Guess that means the NHL must of been rigged for the Canadian teams prior to Bettman, right?

See, I can play that game too!


I don't believe in the conspiracy but American teams just got more serious and then it became a numbers game. Van and Calgary were both in the 7th game which would have made a vast difference in the breakdown as well.
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#52 WHL rocks

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 01:55 PM

Of course it is.
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#53 Drybone

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:16 PM

I don't believe in the conspiracy but American teams just got more serious and then it became a numbers game. Van and Calgary were both in the 7th game which would have made a vast difference in the breakdown as well.


Edmonton too

Ottawa made game 5 .

p.s.

Canadiens won the cup last in 93, the first year Bettman was commiss. The Canucks have lost 2 game 7s since.

Dont know if any team has done that.

Edited by Drybone, 04 December 2012 - 03:24 PM.

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#54 skolozsy2

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Posted 04 December 2012 - 03:25 PM

I don't believe in the conspiracy but American teams just got more serious and then it became a numbers game. Van and Calgary were both in the 7th game which would have made a vast difference in the breakdown as well.


Another big factor that hurt Canadian teams in the 90's via the numbers game was the number 0.60

That was the exchange rate on the Canadian dollar. That was a major factor. Canadian teams collected revenue in the weak Canadian dollar and then had to pay thier expenses in American dollars. It was crippling...especially with no salary cap or revenue sharing. The deck was stacked against Canadian teams, but that wasnt Bettman's fault.
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#55 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 09 December 2012 - 11:26 PM

Given the obvious 'management' of games. . .

Given the completely inconsistent officiating that ALWAYS seems to favour keeping games close and ... teams in it. . .


I don't know about that, there are terrible calls now and then but everyone pulls out the conspiracy theory card everytime something bad happens to our snake-bitten franchise.

These are just made up things.

Given the favouritism shown to small market american teams. . .


I don't know about that. The last 5 Finals have all had pretty big american market's involved: Boston, Chicago, Philly, Detriot, Pittsburgh, LA, New Jersey.

Then you could add us in and say pretty big market's overall, with maybe the expection being New Jersey who has gone through some tough times recently, but size wise is still a big market.

Given that Shanahan is a complete joke. . .


I thought Colin Campbell was a joke, Shanny has had his blunders (Keith on Daniel comes to mind) but he has also made many great calls.

I thought Campbell made way more mistakes than successes and with Shanny it seems to be the opposite in my eyes, (With a few expections but that's to be expected)

Given that all the old referees have been run out of the game. . .


Or that the old referees have retired? Become to Old to continue at this level? This isn't a very well thought out point at all.

Is there any other conclusion than the NHL is now the WWF?


I didn't see and Stone Cold Stunners last season so I don't believe so, but the Gary/Owners vs Don/Players dialogue in this Lockout (Most notably at the end of the last bargaining session) does rival the old confrontations of Vince and Austin in the hay day of the Attitude Era.
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