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Why Canucks don't have a Stanley Cup? No loyalty to their players


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#61 VAN_FAN_MATT

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:48 PM

Watching the Kings raise the Cup brought the heartache back from last year.

This is the third consecutive year I've had to bitterly watch a team that I dispise, that beat us in the playoffs go on and win the Cup. Chicago, Boston, now LA.

#62 cmccomb

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:52 PM

troll post is a troll post.

#63 Cause=Time

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 11:52 PM

OMG a posts that actually makes sense.

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Because it happens to agree with you...

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MERCY YEARS - Debut EP out now! - Check it out at mercyyears.com


#64 Haikara

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:09 AM

Bring back the minus button. I can't believe the ridiculous claims you have made earned you +8. :picard:
Pretty much all of your claims have been refuted by the first few responses.

Edited by Haikara, 12 June 2012 - 12:10 AM.

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#65 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:19 AM

But you can't deny the fact that those were great supporting casts that complemented well with the team.

Also please don't include Edler in any other conversation. He was Kings best player in the first round.


Carter never did a damn thing after he was out of here. His ego overplayed his common sense - he couldn't admit that the Sedins were the reason he had a good year - and the years after that proved it. Samuelsson was done here. He often got lazy on the backcheck and AV had to demote him to the fourth line frequently - when a guy decides that him scoring goals is more important than team defence, it's time to say goodbye. Ehrhoff decided he was going for the money instead of the cup. The minute he wanted more than the top players on the team he had written his ticket out of hear.

Edler was a problem in the playoffs, but he did have some excuse with AV switching up partners on him all the time down the stretch till none of the D knew what the heck their role was. It didn't help Bieksa, Salo or Hamhuis either. If Hodgson wanted out, AV and management had a lot to do with thatwhen they accused him of faking an injury - you do not say that to a player with a strong sense of honour - of which Hodgson, a captain all through junior and the junior nationals, has a lot.

In short, you are just mad, want to blame somebody, so you are picking on our players.

#66 Ray_Cathode

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:19 AM

Bring back the minus button. I can't believe the ridiculous claims you have made earned you +8. :picard:
Pretty much all of your claims have been refuted by the first few responses.


He has 8 other ID's.

#67 WolfxHaley

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:22 AM

Did not sign Carter back in 06 after a career season then tried to get cheaper version of him by going after Pyatt, Beirner and god knows who else. That was a pretty big fail.

Told Ehhroff to take a hike. If players don't feel wanted here, why should they sign with the organization? Look at the teams that have won the cup, it starts with great defense. Fact: Ehhroff made Edler.

Let Mitchell walk that was a defensive beast but only made 1 mistake (how many mistakes AV has made?)

Let Torres walk who confronted anyone that looked at the team wrong. Also won 1 game of the finals for us. How many wins do the Sedins have for us?

Trade Sammuelson who was pretty much the heart of the team.

Forced Hodgson out because the coach hated him. We had a struggling Kelser who was injured and the management knew it yet we got played like fools. The bigger story was why did Hodgson leave.

Can't seem to get the others off the top off my head, but this is a major issue. Managements treats players like assets, they only care about signing players for cheap, not signing players to win games. We have overpaid players that dont' seem to fit AV's description of a player.

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#68 oldnews

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:22 AM

I totally agree with you OP.

We're too cheap and unloyal to "non AV favourites" and we ditch them without a second though. Then we accept high risk contracts such as Ballard (known concussion issue) and Booth? And if you compare stats, Booth had no better track record in scoring than Samuelsson, while Samuellson had proven playoff experience. Talk about hypocrits.

And how is giving Torres 2 years at $1M/yr a big risk? Even on the 4th line, Torres is a bargain at $1M who can move up and down the roster (much like Lapierre).

And let's not get started with the Hodgson situation. If a team like Pittsburgh can run with Crosby/Malkin/Staal, I don't see why the Canucks can't run with a 2nd tier combination of Henrik/Kesler/Hodgson.

And the coaching staff didn't even try to develop Hodgson's defensive abilities by putting him in positions to succeed/fail. Adam Henrique didn't exactly have the best FO% either, but NJD kept at it (and also worked with Adam Oates the entire season) and he eventually became one of the team's go-to faceoff men.

Our team isn't going anywhere with AV and his favourites for grinders.


Sorry - not a single defensible point there OP.
My favorite is "Ehrhoff made Edler" - Edler, the all-star in his absence, apparently doesn't need Ehrhoff.

And this is the post the OP thinks makes sense?
Obvious contradiction - Ballard is the most notable "non AV favorite" - other than the rookie who thought he was ready for Henrik and Kesler's minutes, and wouldn't accept his third line role - which is why the Pittsburgh analogy is so ironic. So yes, please don't get started with the Hodgson thing, because you've already clearly indicated that you don't know what you are talking about - and comparing Hodgson to Henrique is flattering Hodgson.

Fact - Torres signed for 2 years for $3.5 million - the 1 year 1 million thing was not going to happen again. Again, like the OP, your blinders are fogging your perspective.

Is this what happens when people read the Province?

#69 Neufy161

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:27 AM

lol wow...

I would reply with some degree of criticism but... uh...

Oh hell I dont need a reason; only reason I'm still here was I enjoyed reading everyone beak such a blatant noob

Oh hello Alain Vigneault, I see what you did there... good one.

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#70 Forsy

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:27 AM

LOL @ this guy, he thinks that there's only one way to win a cup

#71 WolfxHaley

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:30 AM

Tony gallagher is that you?

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#72 etsen3

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:37 AM

Clearly you didn't read. How many goals did the Sedins score in the 7 game SCF series? I'll wait while you go check Wikipedia.


But you didn't ask how many goals the Sedins scored in Game 7 of the Finals. You asked "how many wins DO the Sedins have for us". I like Torres and in some ways I wish we would have kept him, but he is easily replaceable. He happened to be in the right place at the right time to score a clutch game winner in one big game. On the other hand, how many times have the Sedins taken over a game and brought us to victory? We would have been lucky to make the playoffs if we didn't have the Sedins.

Plus since you're all about loyalty, should you even be bashing the best players on our team who have been with us since 1999?

#73 DeNiro

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:38 AM

Ehrhoff and Carter wanted way too much money. Their greed is why we did not resign them. They showed no loyalty to us.
Mitchell was a gamble, his career was in jeopardy and he wanted a long-term deal, it was sad to see him go, but at the time it did not look like a good decision to keep him.
Torres was a 3rd liner, who played 1 year for us, players like him come and go every year for every team.
Sammuelsson is the only player who was treated like an asset. Regardless players get traded, deal with it.
Hodgson (and his Pa) wanted out. He couldn't deal with being a 3rd liner, and whether you blame him or AV for that feud, he showed he was not loyal to our team by asking to leave rather than get through the ordeal for the better of the team.

Sometimes teams get rid of players who you like. Hockey is a business, and the GMs do what they can to put together a winning team.

LA just won the Cup with a core of new players, by your logic by letting go of Schenn, Simmonds, Johnson, Handzus, Ponikarovsky, Smyth, Harrold, and Sturm (all since the beginning of last year) they showed no loyalty, and would therefore never win a Cup.


Game, set, match!

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#74 Provost

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:41 AM

Stupidest thread of the night goes to you. Congrats


I think this is in the running for stupidest thread of the month actually... right up there with the "we lost out on Steve Bernier and now he is contributing to a SCF champion" from a couple weeks ago.

We have a core of players who has been with our team since they were drafted... many of whom have signed for a little less than they could be making on the open market just so they have a better team.... that speaks of loyalty going both ways.

The guys you talk about are just complementary players, and they did pretty well out of the Canucks.

It would be disloyal to a guy like Burrows who took a big paycut to throw $10 million per year at Erhoff. Ohlund was my favorite player of recent years, but I am not complaining about losing him... I suspect that he isn't complaining either. After a great career here he was able to sign a huge long term contract which we couldn't offer him.

Players come and players go... circle of life baby.
Protons have mass? I didn't even know they were Catholic!

#75 MikeyBoy44

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:44 AM

Isn't that point of a discussion? Instead of making garbage posts, post something meaningful.


This would be a wonderful trolless place if some guys took their own advice.....
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#76 DeNiro

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 12:45 AM

If we kept all of those players, people would be on here complaining that we didn't do enough to improve our team.

You've gotta have player turnover, otherwise a team gets complacent.

Edited by DeNiro, 12 June 2012 - 12:48 AM.

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#77 RG Funk

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:00 AM

you wanna know why the canucks dont have a cup. because the "fans" think cory schneeder is better than loungo

Edited by RG Funk, 12 June 2012 - 01:02 AM.


#78 Common sense

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:04 AM

yawn. go play outside, kids - it's summer.

#79 oldnews

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 01:12 AM

you wanna know why the canucks dont have a cup. because the "fans" think cory schneeder is better than loungo


RDSS?

#80 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:48 AM

Every team makes changes. You can't keep every single player, and there's a good reason for some of those players being traded. Most of the time it's the player who isn't showing loyalty to the Canucks, which is why they're gone.

Ehrhoff - we had defensive depth and he wanted the big bucks so he left for 10 million in Buffalo that he doesn't deserve. Sure, we seriously miss defensive depth and everything he brought, but his asking price was just unreasonable. Instead of taking a pay cut like the true loyal players like the Sedins, Kesler, Luongo, Hamhuis and Bieksa (who all have very manageable cap hits) Ehrhoff wanted more and let his 1 big season worth of success get to his head.

Willie Mitchell - I agree here that we should of signed him, but at the time he had just suffered a serious injury and his future was in question so MG made the sensible move and acquired 2 defencemen who's careers were rarely marked with injuries - Ballard and Hamhuis. Mitchell is still a better shutdown defenceman, but Hamhuis is a far better overall D-man than Mitchell so you can't be upset about this replacement.

Torres - he was only really a rental player, it's not like he was groomed and grown by the organization so we weren't betraying him by not extending his 1 season with the Canucks. As much as I would have liked him to stay, at the time MG thought he had lots of young blood coming through like Hodgson who would really reshape the 3rd line.

Samuelsson - As much as I loved him and as great a playoff-performer he was, MG noticed that our top-6 was seriously lacking size and toughness that Cup winners like Los Angeles and Boston have. Booth is the better option in the future and a much better fit for Kesler not only in terms of style of hockey, but age. This was just MG adjusting his team where it needed adjustments.

Hodgson - This little prick doesn't deserve a spot on any roster if he's so selfish he puts himself before the team. Hodgson wanted more ice time and there's no way he's getting more than Kesler or Henrik Sedin this season. Hodgson should of shown more loyalty to the team that drafted and sculpted him into a future star - he would have gotten his fair share of icetime when the Sedins' play regresses and Kesler gets slower and older but instead he wanted fame NOW so MG did the honourable thing and traded him. I'm glad he's burried down on the 3rd line of the Sabres playing worse and getting less ice time than he did in Vancouver because you can't grow a successful hockey culture with selfish players. Don't blame AV for not playing him more when he's got Kesler and Henrik to contend with THIS SEASON. Hodgson would have been our 2nd liner in 2 seasons and top liner in 3 or 4, but he couldn't wait that long.

When you think of loyalty to their players (and vice versa), look at our leaders. The Sedins have been here their whole career. Burke did the best job he could, better than any I've ever seen before, to get them both playing for Vancouver and MG has done a good job of signing them here long-term. Luongo did so much for this team in the first few seasons with the club and MG rightfully awarded him with a long-term contract (say what you want, 5 million is a bargain for one of the best goalies considering Lundqvist is getting 6 million). Then there's Hamhuis and Bieksa who have earned the big bucks and big contract re-signings after playing as our top pairing.
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#81 timberz21

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 05:47 AM

Resigning of Bieksa, Sedins, Kesler, Burrows, Luongo, Higgins, Lapierre, Hansen,


LA, traded for Richards, Carter, Penner, Stoll, sign UFA Mitchell, Scuderi


Yeah Loyalty will win you a cup?!?!?

#82 Heretic

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 06:27 AM

LOL - what a joke.
It's the players that have no loyalty.
Been like that since the early 90's - thanks in part to free agency.
These players don't care about you as long as you pay good money to see them play.
These players care about one thing only - money.
All these players could have stayed but they wanted more money.
Even the mighty Trevor Linden left for "greener" pastures.

Loyalty? What a joke.

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Kirk: Maybe he's not out there, Bones. Maybe he's right here. [points to his heart]

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#83 MikeyBoy44

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 06:47 AM

Even the mighty Trevor Linden left for "greener" pastures.

Loyalty? What a joke.


When did linden leave because of money?
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#84 RUPERTKBD

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:17 AM

I don't understand how the OP got 16 pluses for this post, but it's utter garbage.
Orland Kurtenbach and Dennis Kearns had just been torched 8-1 by the Habs, but they still took time to come out to meet us, some fellow BC boys who were playing hockey in Montreal. THAT"S what being a Canuck is!

#85 cs2016

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:39 AM

You guys can talk as much crap as you want about Ehrhoff, but we would've won the Cup last year if he was healthy.

Probably would've gone deep if we still had him. He ran our team offensively from the back end.

God i would kill to get Ehrhoff back.


Maybe our chances would be even better with Hamhuis even if Erhoff was injured. The D corps just unravelled after Hammer was injured.

#86 cs2016

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:40 AM

LOL - what a joke.
It's the players that have no loyalty.
Been like that since the early 90's - thanks in part to free agency.
These players don't care about you as long as you pay good money to see them play.
These players care about one thing only - money.
All these players could have stayed but they wanted more money.
Even the mighty Trevor Linden left for "greener" pastures.

Loyalty? What a joke.


Linden was traded.

#87 tjkaemingh

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:41 AM

HA HA OP, very funny.

#88 cs2016

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:44 AM

Forced Hodgson out because the coach hated him. We had a struggling Kelser who was injured and the management knew it yet we got played like fools. The bigger story was why did Hodgson leave.


Hodgson was not forced out. His father, agent and himself were demanding more ice time while his defensive abilities were not fully developed. Remember how Hodgson scored a goal in the Detroit game and then the Wings came back and retook the lead while Hodgson was still out on the ice? Hodgon's demands were also a distraction to the team. That led to him demanding a trade.

#89 Dogbyte

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:46 AM

Did not sign Carter back in 06 after a career season then tried to get cheaper version of him by going after Pyatt, Beirner and god knows who else. That was a pretty big fail.

Told Ehhroff to take a hike. If players don't feel wanted here, why should they sign with the organization? Look at the teams that have won the cup, it starts with great defense. Fact: Ehhroff made Edler.

Let Mitchell walk that was a defensive beast but only made 1 mistake (how many mistakes AV has made?)

Let Torres walk who confronted anyone that looked at the team wrong. Also won 1 game of the finals for us. How many wins do the Sedins have for us?

Trade Sammuelson who was pretty much the heart of the team.

Forced Hodgson out because the coach hated him. We had a struggling Kelser who was injured and the management knew it yet we got played like fools. The bigger story was why did Hodgson leave.

Can't seem to get the others off the top off my head, but this is a major issue. Managements treats players like assets, they only care about signing players for cheap, not signing players to win games. We have overpaid players that dont' seem to fit AV's description of a player.

You're out to lunch.

Carter was a plug just like every other player we try with the Sedins. Our coaching staff and GM's are plain stupid when it comes to that area.

Ehrhoff wanted to much cash and it was stupid loyalty to crappy Bieksa that let him walk anyway.

In the situation we were in where we were nearing elite status there was no way we should have taken a chance on Mitchell. That was a good GM move.

Torres I would to have liked to stay but MG went in a different direction.

Samuellson is an absolute garbage hockey player. Heart of the team. Shut up!

Hodgson, forced out, no that was never going to work and we got the better player out of the deal.

You can't just retain every single player that ever plays for you. You can't have 70 players on a team. :sadno: This thread is beyond stupid.

I suppose you're one of those idiots that think Raymond should get another chance because he had a back injury for Christ sakes. Grow up.

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#90 cs2016

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 07:48 AM

Teams need to get rid of players to become better.




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