Sharpshooter Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I feel bad for Biden, this is a guy who will have debated Sarah Palin and Paul Ryan. It's kind of like Usain Bolt running in the special Olympics - he'll win but was it really a fair fight? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ossi Vaananen Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 ^ a 72 y/o's heartbeat away from presidency. I think Paul is this year's equivalent, given his reputation for voting down sensible Democratic bills and his batsh*t budget there is a lot of crap that can be thrown his way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Squirrels.Gone.Wild Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Gawd, I remember her once calling him O'Biden. Friggin Caribou Barbie had no business being possibly a heartbeat away from the Presidency. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 She was great. I've admittedly had a crush on her for a couple of years now though. I could listen to her for a very long time as well. Smart and succinct is the only way I could describe her. And I thought Clinton did well in delivering a motivating speech.....which is what is was designed to be for the audience in the building, comprised of mainly confirmed supporters, and for those at home, many who are also supporters of the Dem party....but also for those who haven't made up their minds. If you want to pejoratively call supporters of political party or the face of one or of an ideology, then I suppose that's ok. We're all 'lemmings' then in some form or fashion, aren't we? And by we, I mean you as well. And by hardly true, do you mean there's a little truth to it, or none at all and the suggestion that there's a little truth is unbelievable? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaK Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Watched the majority of both conventions... I really don't know how this is even close. The Dems communicated the much stronger message. For various reasons I watched the Republican convention on CNN and the Democratic convention on MSNBC. While I think that the Dems are the saner of the two parties down there... man is MSNBC ever becoming a cheerleader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YaK Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Don't care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni_14 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Fair enough, I understand what you're saying. By the way, I hadn't checked out politifact.com before you mentioned it, now I have, and you're right, they seem to have no biases at all. Here is one problem I have with only looking there though. For people like you, who are presumably intelligent, open-minded, and well informed about current issues, it's great, because you can look at the facts and make up your own mind. But for those less in tune than you (i.e. most Americans), you can run into the same problem I was mentioning before - you look at the site, say "well look, both sides clearly lie a lot" and call it even again. Which would be completely wrong if one side lies way blatantly and way more often than the other. You don't really get the big picture... for example, right now the DNC is the big media event, so every quote on that page is from Dems. A lot of them aren't rated "completely true" so if I just look at that, it looks like Dems are the big liars. Right now I have to go pretty far back to see GOP lies. I guess what I'm trying to say is that while this site is an incredibly valuable tool, it needs analysis to go with it. Politifact tells you how accurate certain individual statements were, but it doesn't tell you much about either party's platform or how they'll affect Americans. That's what the media's job should be, and I think we can agree that they fail terribly. You're right now that you mention it, most of TYT's anti-Obama videos attack him for not being progressive enough. But if you watch all their videos in-depth, you'll see that they provide facts to support everything they say, they won't shy away from attacking Dems, and they'll always do their best to weed out biases. They may be personally biased towards an ideology, but within that context they'll still give you the plain and honest truth, which separates them from most others. Also, Cenk (the main host) unrelentlessly attacks both sides for all the money that's in politics and time after time calls it the biggest problem in America, which other media outlets would never dare do. So to sum up... politifact.com is an extremely useful and unbiased tool. But for the general public, you need proper analysis to put everything into context. The mainstream media isn't doing their job, so you need to look elsewhere, and for now, TYT is the best I have seen. edit, also wanted to add - when TYT attacks Obama for not being progressive enough, it is almost always in the context of his own campaign promises. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I care somewhat... I work on bulk freighters that often ship the raw materials from Canadian ports to the American rust belt... American economic recovery is important to me and I. AM. CANADIAN. Our economies are tied in so many other ways too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 How the two did all depends upon where you live. There is no reason to doubt why people in Vancouver love Obama, because he would fit in with the culture there. While Obama is a nice guy, sincere, and passionate, regular people like me cannot afford another four more years of rising taxes, increased gas prices, and rising food costs, just to fund social welfare programs. It is sad when people go to Walmart and use their food stamps, WIC, and cash benefits from their welfare, then get free Medicaid, and have their housing paid for on Section 8, while getting subsidized and in some instances free utilities, then there is the free day care, free lunches and breakfast at school for their kids, the Earned Income Tax credit that not only pays them their income tax back but another $2000 per kid per year, that they have more dispensible income at the end of the day for doing absolutely nothing. Whereas people like me and my wife who work long hours, pay all of our taxes, get none of the tax credits, and we have to pay for medical insurance through our employers, pay for daycare, and cannot get any assistance whatsover. The system has to change. There is no incentive to work if you are on the gravy train. There is a lot of people like me who cannot afford another four more years like this; not to mention the four thousand dollars less we are earning since 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 How the two did all depends upon where you live. There is no reason to doubt why people in Vancouver love Obama, because he would fit in with the culture there. While Obama is a nice guy, sincere, and passionate, regular people like me cannot afford another four more years of rising taxes, increased gas prices, and rising food costs, just to fund social welfare programs. It is sad when people go to Walmart and use their food stamps, WIC, and cash benefits from their welfare, then get free Medicaid, and have their housing paid for on Section 8, while getting subsidized and in some instances free utilities, then there is the free day care, free lunches and breakfast at school for their kids, the Earned Income Tax credit that not only pays them their income tax back but another $2000 per kid per year, that they have more dispensible income at the end of the day for doing absolutely nothing. Whereas people like me and my wife who work long hours, pay all of our taxes, get none of the tax credits, and we have to pay for medical insurance through our employers, pay for daycare, and cannot get any assistance whatsover. The system has to change. There is no incentive to work if you are on the gravy train. There is a lot of people like me who cannot afford another four more years like this; not to mention the four thousand dollars less we are earning since 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
johngould21 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 How the two did all depends upon where you live. There is no reason to doubt why people in Vancouver love Obama, because he would fit in with the culture there. While Obama is a nice guy, sincere, and passionate, regular people like me cannot afford another four more years of rising taxes, increased gas prices, and rising food costs, just to fund social welfare programs. It is sad when people go to Walmart and use their food stamps, WIC, and cash benefits from their welfare, then get free Medicaid, and have their housing paid for on Section 8, while getting subsidized and in some instances free utilities, then there is the free day care, free lunches and breakfast at school for their kids, the Earned Income Tax credit that not only pays them their income tax back but another $2000 per kid per year, that they have more dispensible income at the end of the day for doing absolutely nothing. Whereas people like me and my wife who work long hours, pay all of our taxes, get none of the tax credits, and we have to pay for medical insurance through our employers, pay for daycare, and cannot get any assistance whatsover. The system has to change. There is no incentive to work if you are on the gravy train. There is a lot of people like me who cannot afford another four more years like this; not to mention the four thousand dollars less we are earning since 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 How the two did all depends upon where you live. There is no reason to doubt why people in Vancouver love Obama, because he would fit in with the culture there. While Obama is a nice guy, sincere, and passionate, regular people like me cannot afford another four more years of rising taxes, increased gas prices, and rising food costs, just to fund social welfare programs. It is sad when people go to Walmart and use their food stamps, WIC, and cash benefits from their welfare, then get free Medicaid, and have their housing paid for on Section 8, while getting subsidized and in some instances free utilities, then there is the free day care, free lunches and breakfast at school for their kids, the Earned Income Tax credit that not only pays them their income tax back but another $2000 per kid per year, that they have more dispensible income at the end of the day for doing absolutely nothing. Whereas people like me and my wife who work long hours, pay all of our taxes, get none of the tax credits, and we have to pay for medical insurance through our employers, pay for daycare, and cannot get any assistance whatsover. The system has to change. There is no incentive to work if you are on the gravy train. There is a lot of people like me who cannot afford another four more years like this; not to mention the four thousand dollars less we are earning since 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I'll put our taxes here in Canada up against the USA's anytime. In fact its not even close to being egual up here. Then add the different fees etc. that all gov'ts throw at us. Our earning power is far less than yours, but, let me ask you, are you better off than us? I don't think so. We have all of what Obama is trying to get for the middle class, meanwhile the neocons up here are doing their best to privatize some of it. What are you talking about, high gas prices? Come across the 49th and buy a litre of gas someday. Try buying a home in greater Vancouver. You and the GOP don't seem to get what Obama is trying to do for EVERYONE in the USA, and that is that everyone has an egual and fair chance for an opportunity to get into good paying jobs, homes, and a decent education. Not just the privileged few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharpshooter Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Pardon? Obama along with Bush bail out the financials, bail out the automotive industry, people who made the most reckless choices to lend money to those who didn't deserve the loans, made cars people didn't want to buy, and didn't deserve to have their stupidity and failure rewarded, but didn't bail out people who foreclosed on their homes. Obama then signs free trade agreements with countries in Asia and South America that help export US middle class jobs overseas, while simultaneously signing subsidies to Walmart to hire part time low income jobs to offset that. What the frack are people smoking? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I'll put our taxes here in Canada up against the USA's anytime. In fact its not even close to being egual up here. Then add the different fees etc. that all gov'ts throw at us. Our earning power is far less than yours, but, let me ask you, are you better off than us? I don't think so. We have all of what Obama is trying to get for the middle class, meanwhile the neocons up here are doing their best to privatize some of it. What are you talking about, high gas prices? Come across the 49th and buy a litre of gas someday. Try buying a home in greater Vancouver. You and the GOP don't seem to get what Obama is trying to do for EVERYONE in the USA, and that is that everyone has an egual and fair chance for an opportunity to get into good paying jobs, homes, and a decent education. Not just the privileged few. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Another issue for Congress, the Senate, and the Whitehouse needs to consider is the elimination of the H1B Visa given to temporary foreign workers usually in the medical, scientific, and engineering fields. There are plenty of Americans who could do those jobs, and would probably take a lower pay just to make some money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 My point was the welfare programs here in the US are far too generous, and that those who work cannot afford that generousity anymore. And the rolls have grown with Obama at the watch, especially over the last two years. According to the labour stats today, almost 89-million people do not work in the US, about 1-4 on the dole, true unemployment is 14% and with underemployment factored makes that number jump to 21%. Another issue: minimum wage is 3.00 an hour less here. Yes the price of gas here in Louisiana is about 3.89 a gallon when just ten years ago it was .89 a gallon on a Labor Day weekend. And when you are talking sixty bucks a week or more just to go to work, that is over $3,000 a year. Also, over the past four years the average family income is down $4,000. So there is seven grand out of working people's pockets. Not to mention that most places have frozen wages and have not provided a cost of living increase, and the price of all goods has increased due to market forces. But one thing has not changed, the marginal tax rates. And in some states, those rates have gone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Colt 45s Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Blaming Obama for the price of gas? You're a Fox News consumer, aren't you? Enjoy, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
22Sedinery33 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Enough said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamboni_14 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Another issue: minimum wage is 3.00 an hour less here. Yes the price of gas here in Louisiana is about 3.89 a gallon when just ten years ago it was .89 a gallon on a Labor Day weekend. And when you are talking sixty bucks a week or more just to go to work, that is over $3,000 a year. Also, over the past four years the average family income is down $4,000. So there is seven grand out of working people's pockets. Not to mention that most places have frozen wages and have not provided a cost of living increase, and the price of all goods has increased due to market forces. But one thing has not changed, the marginal tax rates. And in some states, those rates have gone up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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