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#1 Sup CROW

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:27 AM

So here it is CDC

To Vancouver: Magnus Paraavi

To Edmonton: Chris Tanev

What do you guys think?

Go easy on me it's my first proposal.



:)

Edited by Sup CROW, 12 October 2012 - 09:28 AM.


#2 Alex Burrows 14

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:41 AM

Not bad but i dont want to trade tanev. I think paarvii can be had fairly easily so hwbout sauve and a second?

I would love paarvii tho, just not for tanev. But the trade makes a lot of sense for both teams. Fair value also

Edited by Alex Burrows 14, 12 October 2012 - 09:47 AM.

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#3 King of the ES

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:47 AM

So here it is CDC

To Vancouver: Magnus Paraavi

To Edmonton: Chris Tanev

What do you guys think?

Go easy on me it's my first proposal.


When you wish upon a star...

#4 goalie13

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:09 AM

What do you guys think?

Go easy on me it's my first proposal.


One tip for a good proposal is to give rationale why each team would do it. Anybody can just toss random names out there (and for some people, that's all they do). Trade proposals typically have better discussion if you make a case why the trade would work for both sides.
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#5 Red-Haired_Shanks

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 11:13 AM

So here it is CDC

To Vancouver: Magnus Paraavi

To Edmonton: Chris Tanev

What do you guys think?

Go easy on me it's my first proposal.



:)


i swear i saw this same trade on hockeysfuture boards. dd you get this from there or just random?
NHL! WHY YOU LOCKOUT!

#6 billabong

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:37 PM

fair but come on why waste your time on a deal between two teams who you know arent gonna trade
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#7 CanucksFanMike

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:44 PM

I wouldn't do it..... I think Tanev is a really solid prospect with huge potential
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#8 c00kies

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 12:49 PM

fair but come on why waste your time on a deal between two teams who you know arent gonna trade


Both of the players involved appear to be solid depth players, but not superstars or core players. This deal's magnitude could easily be a reason for these two teams being able to make this trade. Although Paarjarvi seems to have a better possible ceiling (maybe 2nd line winger), both seems to be support players, and Edmonton does need young d-men.
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#9 elvis15

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 01:57 PM

More reasonable than many on this board, so kudos for not trying to do a 3 pieces per team 3 way trade in your first proposal. Paajarvi is on the outside looking in with Edmonton, and they could use defence, but for us to move Tanev it would leave a gap in the D-men we have that can play the right side well.

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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#10 Paul Bissonnette

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 04:06 PM

You copied this from hfboards

#11 King of the ES

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 05:47 PM

More reasonable than many on this board, so kudos for not trying to do a 3 pieces per team 3 way trade in your first proposal. Paajarvi is on the outside looking in with Edmonton, and they could use defence, but for us to move Tanev it would leave a gap in the D-men we have that can play the right side well.


Maybe, but that's like arguing over who the tallest midget is.

There is NO FREAKING WAY that Edmonton would even consider trading the 10th overall pick from 2009, for a guy who is older, undrafted, and less proven at the NHL level.

Seriously, think about it.

#12 Pears

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 06:09 PM

Maybe, but that's like arguing over who the tallest midget is.

There is NO FREAKING WAY that Edmonton would even consider trading the 10th overall pick from 2009, for a guy who is older, undrafted, and less proven at the NHL level.

Seriously, think about it.

You're over-rating Paajarvi and under-rating Tanev. If you care to research, Paajarvi couldn't even crack the Oilers line up most of the year and spent time with the Barons, while Tanev is looking to be a very steady, calm D man.

In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs


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#13 King of the ES

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:07 PM

You're over-rating Paajarvi and under-rating Tanev. If you care to research, Paajarvi couldn't even crack the Oilers line up most of the year and spent time with the Barons, while Tanev is looking to be a very steady, calm D man.


Paajarvi spent more time with Edmonton last year than Tanev did with Vancouver.

Paajarvi is also 2 years younger, and has 42 points in 121 NHL games. Slightly better than Tanev's record of 3 points in 54 games. Yes, he's a defenceman. But it's not hard for defencemen like Tanev to just sort of "blend in" and not really be noticed, which translates into a serious over-valuing by the local fans. Yann Sauve didn't look too out of place, did he? And do you remember Evan Oberg? He was the Chris Tanev before Chris Tanev arrived. And then he got traded. Hasn't done much since.

#14 elvis15

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:22 PM

You're over-rating Paajarvi and under-rating Tanev. If you care to research, Paajarvi couldn't even crack the Oilers line up most of the year and spent time with the Barons, while Tanev is looking to be a very steady, calm D man.

Stop posting reasonable facts, you're destroying his argument.

Sure Paajarvi has potential, but also has lots of top 9 competition on the Oilers. He has twice the NHL games, but struggled in his second year and spent time in the AHL as a result. Taking into account the need the Oilers have and where they have a surplus, it's not as unreasonable.

I still don't think they do it, and there is the fact of how it affects us. We can use Tanev on the right side since Bieksa's our only other right hand shot. We have a fair number of top 6/9 wingers developing in our system as well, so where would Paajarvi fit? It would turn out to be beneficial if Paajarvi can reach his potential, but there's no guarantee of that when he'd be competing against Jensen and Kassian from our prospects, plus Daniel, Booth, Higgins, Burrows, etc in our lineup currently.

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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#15 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 07:33 PM

Paajarvi spent more time with Edmonton last year than Tanev did with Vancouver.

Paajarvi is also 2 years younger, and has 42 points in 121 NHL games. Slightly better than Tanev's record of 3 points in 54 games. Yes, he's a defenceman. But it's not hard for defencemen like Tanev to just sort of "blend in" and not really be noticed, which translates into a serious over-valuing by the local fans. Yann Sauve didn't look too out of place, did he? And do you remember Evan Oberg? He was the Chris Tanev before Chris Tanev arrived. And then he got traded. Hasn't done much since.


Tanev is better than both.

Tanev hasn't just blended in like the other's he has stood out with his play, he capable of making the perfect pass and making the right play when there is alot of pressure on him. He has that smooth style and is very reliable.

The thing that makes Hamhuis so valuable is the exact same thing that makes Tanev so good, being smooth and reliable all the time no matter what the circumstances.

So it's that versus a guy who can't crack the top 9 on the worst team in the NHL, I like Paajarvi but you are overrating him and underrating Tanev.

Edited by Smashian Kassian, 12 October 2012 - 07:33 PM.

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#16 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:07 PM

Paajarvi is playing on the left wing with RNH and Eberle on the Barons this upcoming AHL season. Oilers still think there is a player in Paajarvi so they aren't going to give him up unless he's in a package for a superstar.

#17 elvis15

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 08:28 PM

Paajarvi is playing on the left wing with RNH and Eberle on the Barons this upcoming AHL season. Oilers still think there is a player in Paajarvi so they aren't going to give him up unless he's in a package for a superstar.

That's my thought, they wouldn't give up on him so soon after a poor sophomore season. If they felt they were making a good hockey deal, and it filled a need for them, it might be enough. Not sure they'd see this as enough however.

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Tanev is going to EDM. I can put my life savings down on it

 


#18 billabong

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 09:22 PM

Both of the players involved appear to be solid depth players, but not superstars or core players. This deal's magnitude could easily be a reason for these two teams being able to make this trade. Although Paarjarvi seems to have a better possible ceiling (maybe 2nd line winger), both seems to be support players, and Edmonton does need young d-men.


it doesnt matter. its the possibility of potential for both players is enough for both teams to stay away from eachother.

paarjarvi will probably turn out to be 30g, 60 point player....i see an eric cole 2.0 in the making but the possibility that he could turn out to be a marleau or neal is enough for edm to hold onto him...or atleast not trade him to a division rival
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#19 Dion Phaneuf

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Posted 12 October 2012 - 10:12 PM

I would take that deal and run.

Tanev is a decent defencemen but he'll never be more than a defensive specialist. He has next to no offence in his game although he has an excellent breakout pass. Realisticay, I believe that Tanev will be a serviceable defencemen whose comparable to Mike Weaver.

Paajarvi has loads of potential still and generally speaking Euros take longer to develop than North Americans. Paajarvi could be a good 2nd/3rd line forward or he could simply bust.

I'd take the risk...

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#20 ConnorFutureGM

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:56 AM

The thing is Paajarvi is so sound defensively with physical assets he will always have a job in the NHL. He cheats to play defence (he played as a defenceman until he was a teenager).

#21 King of the ES

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 06:33 AM

Tanev is better than both.

Tanev hasn't just blended in like the other's he has stood out with his play, he capable of making the perfect pass and making the right play when there is alot of pressure on him. He has that smooth style and is very reliable.

The thing that makes Hamhuis so valuable is the exact same thing that makes Tanev so good, being smooth and reliable all the time no matter what the circumstances.

So it's that versus a guy who can't crack the top 9 on the worst team in the NHL, I like Paajarvi but you are overrating him and underrating Tanev.


Go post this proposal on Edmonton's board, and see how it's received. You'll be laughed off of their site.

With all of this talk on how there's so much competition on Vancouver for a spot for Paajarvi, how soon we've all forgotten about that Justin Schultz guy that Edmonton signed in the summer.

#22 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 09:51 AM

Go post this proposal on Edmonton's board, and see how it's received. You'll be laughed off of their site.

With all of this talk on how there's so much competition on Vancouver for a spot for Paajarvi, how soon we've all forgotten about that Justin Schultz guy that Edmonton signed in the summer.


What?

Anyways what I was saying is that Tanev has thusfar acomplished more and seems like more of a sure thing, Paajarvi has more potential but Tanev is more of a sure thing, I think for us considering the jog lam or wingers we have, we don't really need Paajarvi, and we need Tanev more.

You are underrating Tanev for sure though.

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#23 King of the ES

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 10:39 AM

Anyways what I was saying is that Tanev has thusfar acomplished more and seems like more of a sure thing, Paajarvi has more potential but Tanev is more of a sure thing, I think for us considering the jog lam or wingers we have, we don't really need Paajarvi, and we need Tanev more.


You sure about that?

Paajarvi:
--121 GP, 17 G, 42 PTS

Tanev:
--54 GP, 0 G, 3 PTS

Come on. He has not accomplished more, and he's absolutely not more of a "sure thing". I am not underrating Tanev. He is a borderline NHLer, at this point.

#24 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:47 AM

You sure about that?

Paajarvi:
--121 GP, 17 G, 42 PTS

Tanev:
--54 GP, 0 G, 3 PTS

Come on. He has not accomplished more, and he's absolutely not more of a "sure thing". I am not underrating Tanev. He is a borderline NHLer, at this point.


I guess you think points = Success right?

Dennis Siedenberg only had 23 points this year yet he was on the Bruins top pair, has been for a while and is instrumental in there success, similar to ho Hamhuis is here, our best defensemen, and he has only averaged around 30 points per season in his time here.

The real stat that proves what I'm saying about Tanev is Plus/Minus

Tanev: hasn't even played a full season in the NHL yet and he is a career +10, and he has already shown he can slot into the top 4 when needed and play well.

Pajaarvi: In 121 NHL games is a career -20, he has struggled to make the worst team in the NHL, and has been very inconsistent, which is the reason he has spent alot of that time in the AHL.


This just shows that while Tanev isn't a PP specalist by any means, everytime he plays for the Canucks he has been solid and reliable and has never beena weakness, he has always been able to preform at a high level in whatever situation he has put in.

Whereas Pajaarvi has been very inconsistent and hasn't done all that much of anything impressive with the big club, everythough he has had much much more opportunity.

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#25 Canada Hockey Place

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 11:56 AM

I am not underrating Tanev. He is a borderline NHLer, at this point.


Tanev was 4th in ESTOI/G for the Canucks last season. All Canucks, not just D. He averaged 12:56/G at the start of the season. By April he was averaging 19:40/G.

Not a comment on the trade in question. I just wanted to point out how extremely clueless it is calling Tanev a borderline NHLer at this stage in his development.

Why would the Canucks dress a player who they thought of as a borderline NHLer for the playoffs?
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#26 bigpush

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:46 PM

You sure about that?

Paajarvi:
--121 GP, 17 G, 42 PTS

Tanev:
--54 GP, 0 G, 3 PTS

Come on. He has not accomplished more, and he's absolutely not more of a "sure thing". I am not underrating Tanev. He is a borderline NHLer, at this point.


It is impossible to compare stats of wingers and dmen especially when one is more offensive minded and the other is defensive minded. Both players are very good prospects IMO, but Paajarvi might get lost in EDM system as the have a lot high end forward prospects.

These stats are true of course but looking a little deeper at them Paajarvi had 34 of those 42 points in his first seaon (80 games ) and only 8 points in his second season (41 games) which happens to young players all the time but still is a reason for concern when your 10th overall pick who is known for his offensive abilities rather than defensive isn't able to produce. He did play very well for the AHL affiliate and IMO will become a successful NHLer.

Tanev is praised because of his ability to play very well defensively under pressure and you can't quantify that with stats really other than looking at his icetime,+/- and advanced stats (not widely recognized as legitimate).
These stats except for GP and +/- are all relative to other canuck Dmen.

Year GP +/- Corsi Avg TOI OFF zone start OFF zone finish
2010-11 29 0 3rd best Least 2nd worst 2nd best
postseason 5 0 2nd worst 5th 2nd worst worst
2011-2012 25 +10 2nd best 4th 2nd worst 2nd worst
post season 5 0 2nd worst 4th 2nd worst 4th

It is hard to figure out much with such a small sample size but the things that stand out to me is that he was given pretty decent minutes which shows the level of trust that AV has for him and also that he was consistantly sent out when he was starting in the Defensive zone which again shows trust. Not noticing a player like Tanev when he is on the ice is a complement because he does all the little things right without making big mistakes.

#27 bigpush

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 12:58 PM

The real stat that proves what I'm saying about Tanev is Plus/Minus

Tanev: hasn't even played a full season in the NHL yet and he is a career +10, and he has already shown he can slot into the top 4 when needed and play well.

Pajaarvi: In 121 NHL games is a career -20, he has struggled to make the worst team in the NHL, and has been very inconsistent, which is the reason he has spent alot of that time in the AHL.


This just shows that while Tanev isn't a PP specalist by any means, everytime he plays for the Canucks he has been solid and reliable and has never beena weakness, he has always been able to preform at a high level in whatever situation he has put in.

Whereas Pajaarvi has been very inconsistent and hasn't done all that much of anything impressive with the big club, everythough he has had much much more opportunity.


While I agree with some of what you say +/- is a very dubious stat IMO as it doesn't take into account things like Vancouver being a very good team and Edmonton being very bad or who you play with or what lines you play against on a regular basis. Paajarvi also had better TOI and PP time in his first season where he was succesfull than his second season when other guys got more opportunities.

#28 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:05 PM

While I agree with some of what you say +/- is a very dubious stat IMO as it doesn't take into account things like Vancouver being a very good team and Edmonton being very bad or who you play with or what lines you play against on a regular basis. Paajarvi also had better TOI and PP time in his first season where he was succesfull than his second season when other guys got more opportunities.


Well he didn't have a good first season either? Raymond probably had a better year.

It's tough to compare the two points wise cause of the positions but I was just trying to say that Tanev does alot of other things that make him valuable, and make him really good, and his +/- backs that up.

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#29 Zoolander

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Posted 13 October 2012 - 01:28 PM

Tanev is as cool as a cucumber and is mature beyond his years. He has also proven he can slot into the top 4 IF NEEDED. Paajarvi, who was drafted 10th overall in 2009 is having trouble cracking the OILERS top 6.

Gillis would be stupid to make this trade.

Edited by Zoolander, 13 October 2012 - 01:29 PM.

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#30 King of the ES

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Posted 14 October 2012 - 06:27 AM

This is getting funny.

If Edmonton proposed trading Jeff Petry for Zack Kassian, would you guys be interested?




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