Mauii Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 I'm not sure the NHL knows what they're doing anymore or maybe they do and all this ranting and raving is all smoke and mirrors. They seem to be on this emotional rollercoaster...it's off the table...it's on the table...we will die on a hill...pretty dramatic don't you think. You would get more respect if you would just put your nose to the ground and hash out a deal without the dramatics. A take it or leave it will not get the deal done, and I would assume they would know this which suggests that their unwillingness to negotiate means they are not willing to resolve this matter just yet. Which may suggest, the league is financially healthier (for some teams) when it's not operating then when it is. There cannot be any other logic to the leagues unwillingness to negotiate and resolve this at this time. Which then suggests how poorly managed the league must be if it's truly better off not operating. That is not how a successful business operates. So if the NHLPA says leave it, where does that leave you? Losing out on a $3.3 billion season? Decertification? Is it a necessary move? You would think it would be better to lose some, then lose it all. I think the NHL would be better off negotiating now then later, while they might want to pinch out as much as they can, they may paint themselves into a corner and give the players more or lose out on an entire season and risk the ramifications of decertification. The profitable teams can kiss their multi-million dollar profits good bye and not so profitable teams face a legal battle. Arguably, the union should challenge the league for not negotiating in good faith, and face a back to work order if not for damages. Perhaps this will be the season that will be the fall of the NHL, and at this rate there is a growing number of people who are indifferent at this prospect, including myself. I have lost all hope, trust and respect for this league, unless and until management changes, the NHL is just a sideshow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeNiro Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ^^ All of the theatrics going on right now is all for show. They have to keep the fans interested until they're ready to make a deal. Because there would be nothing worse than if people stopped talking about hockey. So all this over the top dramatic outbursts and one liners are nothing more than a sell job by the NHL to try and stay in the media. I've said from day 1 that this is a planned lockout. The NHL always planned on missing at least half a season, despite what they say. They had a game plan and a deal date in mind when they started out. That's why when they are ready to make a deal, I think it will come together very quickly, and just in time for when they wanna start, which is looking like January 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ... I've said from day 1 that this is a planned lockout. The NHL always planned on missing at least half a season, despite what they say. They had a game plan and a deal date in mind when they started out. That's why when they are ready to make a deal, I think it will come together very quickly, and just in time for when they wanna start, which is looking like January 1st. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 NHL, NHLPA UNABLE TO FIND COMMON CBA GROUND WITH MEDIATORS With the 2012-13 season on the line, the NHL and NHL Players' Association were back at the bargaining table in Woodbridge, N.J. on Wednesday, as both sides tried to find common ground in finalizing a new collective bargaining agreement. The two sides met separately with federal mediators for more than six hours and the NHLPA continues to meet internally before having further discussions with the mediators. The details of those discussions will be forwarded to the NHL, after which the league will make a decision on whether or not to arrange to meet again on Thursday but that appears somewhat doubtful. Following the afternoon session, NHL deputy commissioner Bill Daly said there was "nothing new to report" and "there is no conclusion to this round of the process right now." "I can't say any progress was made (today)," added NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr. Follow TSN.ca and TSN's Hockey Insiders on Twitter for all the updates as they're made available. Both the NHL and NHLPA met with U.S. federal mediators Scot L. Beckenbaugh and John Sweeney rejoining the process as a one-day exercise. By mediators' advice, there was no face-to-face discussions between the players and NHL. There was no change in either side's position from when talks broke down last Thursday. Both mediators first met with league and union leaders last month before deciding they couldn't help negotiations along. The NHLPA announced that 13 players will take part in the negotiations, including Craig Adams, Adrian Aucoin, Brad Boyes, Chris Campoli, Mathieu Darche, Shane Doan, Ron Hainsey, Jamal Mayers, Andy McDonald, Steve Montador, Brendan Morrison, Douglas Murray, and Daniel Winnik. The NHLPA continued to push for mediation when players and owners gathered in New York last week and the NHL eventually agreed. However, deputy commissioner Bill Daly acknowledged Tuesday that he would carry "no expectations" into Wednesday's session. Mayers called the league's proposal "take it or leave it" and expressed frustration that the two sides are close in numbers but still far away from an agreement. Three days of negotiations last week between the owners and players gave some hope, but again ended without an agreement. Last Thursday, the union had initially stated progress was being made, as NHLPA executive director Donald Fehr said they were close on certain monetary numbers, but he later re-emerged to meet the media and said owners rejected the players' latest proposal. Daly and NHL commissioner Gary Bettman said the league had made concessions monetarily but there was no progress on the length of the agreement and the length of player contracts. The NHL wants a 10-year labor deal with an opt-out clause after eight years, while the union has offered an eight-year contract with the ability to re-open after six years. As for player contracts, the NHL wants to limit them to five years - seven if a club re-signs its own player. Bettman said last week the league wouldn't have a season of less than 48 games - the same length of the lockout-shortened campaign of 1994-95. The latest round of cancellations has taken out 48.2 percent of the original 2012-13 schedule. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Is Bettman on borrowed time at this point? The types of posturing, misdirection, and game playing that he has resorted to hasn't lead to acquiescence, it hasn't fooled us simple fans, it hasn't won the favour of the media (except a few blowhards like MacLean) - and now the NHL is dealing with people like the former owner Arthur Griffiths calling the situation ridiculous. It's obvious that they have been extremely insular and haven't given a hell what people or their customers think, but you have to wonder how obstinate they can remain. I was surpised to hear they had even bothered to use a PR firm - on the other hand, not so surprised by the ineffectiveness. Their handling of the PR apsect has been as competent as the Republican 'appeal' to Latino voters. It looks more likely that Bettman and Co. die on their own swords than on some glorious hill - fighting, ironically, for an odd dealbreaker like a 5 year term limit. Isn't that the epitiome of the contradictions that have come out of their side? Such an odd basis of 'unanimity' among owners. Clearly they'd be unable to simply instruct their GMs that they are not permited to offer 13 year terms... While it's patently obvious that most people find this whole lockout to be a debacle, you have to wonder whether there aren't also some heavies in the NHL ownership group - that are losing a great deal of money sitting around waiting - whose patience is as tested as the rest of ours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Not gonna copy/paste it here, as it's long and not particularly about the lockout, but if anyone's interested in an interesting read to get their mind off these frustrating 'negotiations', give this a try: LET'S ELIMINATE SPORTS WELFARE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WiDeN Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Someone needs to lock Bettman and Fehr in a room with a pen, paper, and some joints. There might be some pizza stains on the contract, but it'll get signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Not gonna copy/paste it here, as it's long and not particularly about the lockout, but if anyone's interested in an interesting read to get their mind off these frustrating 'negotiations', give this a try: LET'S ELIMINATE SPORTS WELFARE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stexx Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Yeah, I'm back to "holy crap" again. EDIT: Holy crap again!! Are you freakin' kidding me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Bottom line, if the NHL doesn't move on contract length and variance, we have no deal and no season. I don't see either side moving, and the way the Daly and Bettman have postured, they won't give up dying on a hill, short of getting fired. The CBA length I can see being a non issue and the lesser of worries. You can't honestly think the NHL is going to cave at the last second and say "ok, we will compromise to save the season" and die on that hill. Never happening in a billion years. Players aren't taking this deal, this year or next year. I hope in the "what if" conversations, they may have explored: If the players take 5 year max contract, 5% variance, would NHL be ok with 5 year UFA? That deal, *might* be plausible. Curious on others thoughts on 5 year UFA. The compromise in reaching UFA sooner may make up for dollars sooner from biding wars? Then again, the market would in theory be larger (more supply). Second benefit is you get to play where you want sooner, so the owners have to treat you good to keep you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gizmo2337 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Let me rephrase this more clearly. Two questions to discuss in the following "what if" scenario: -Players accept 5 year contract term limit and 5% variance -NHL accepts 5 year UFA 1) Would the players or NHL consider this as a viable option, and why or why not? 2) What are the side consequences that would follow such rule changes? I suspect some other tweaks would have to be made like -2 year ELC -slightly smaller make whole -ten year CBA -contracts are guaranteed at face value upon expiry of next CBA or other clause?? (The players need some concession on how this won't happen again) Also, the NHL wants the last word, so I felt the need to make adjustments after countering with 5 year UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cromeslab Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Quote: Thank you for sharing this link. All I can say is, "holy crap!" Well, I guess that's not "all" I can say being that more than a few 4-letter words come to mind when I think about these billionaire owners pleading poverty and whining that they "take all of the risks." $16 BILLION of tax payers' dollars spent on pro sports arenas in a 13 year period despite demonstrated proof that sports teams do not contribute to the local economy but may actually harm it and they think they take all of the risks?! Yup,and next in line at the trough is Katz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poetica Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Let me rephrase this more clearly. Two questions to discuss in the following "what if" scenario: -Players accept 5 year contract term limit and 5% variance -NHL accepts 5 year UFA 1) Would the players or NHL consider this as a viable option, and why or why not? 2) What are the side consequences that would follow such rule changes? I suspect some other tweaks would have to be made like -2 year ELC -slightly smaller make whole -ten year CBA -contracts are guaranteed at face value upon expiry of next CBA or other clause?? (The players need some concession on how this won't happen again) Also, the NHL wants the last word, so I felt the need to make adjustments after countering with 5 year UFA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 "Believe it or not, the Professional Golfer’s Association and the National Hockey League also enjoy the same nonprofit status. ... Maybe that’s why Sen. Tom Coburn (R-Okla.) included both the NFL and NHL in the 2012 edition of his annual government “Wastebook,” estimating that the two leagues’ 501©6 classifications cost taxpayers a combined $91 million." Are you freakin' kidding me?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Not gonna copy/paste it here, as it's long and not particularly about the lockout, but if anyone's interested in an interesting read to get their mind off these frustrating 'negotiations', give this a try: LET'S ELIMINATE SPORTS WELFARE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goalie13 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 At this pace, this thread will have more posts than the 'Count to 100,000' thread before this mess gets resolved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 ... Honestly, it's kind of like welfare at this point. The NHL wants to create a league of dependent weaklings unable to thrive in competition despite the fact that that's the very essence of their business. Instead, they should be creating strong, independent teams that thrive by trying to be better, not just waiting to be handed good enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Oh man, was so awesome today on the Lockout update, they showed Bettman coming up an escalator! Then I saw Doan and I think maybe Sid going through one of those fancy revolving doors at the hotel lobby!! Was CRAAAAZY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoobydooby Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 Oh man, was so awesome today on the Lockout update, they showed Bettman coming up an escalator! Then I saw Doan and I think maybe Sid going through one of those fancy revolving doors at the hotel lobby!! Was CRAAAAZY!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vv2 Posted December 13, 2012 Share Posted December 13, 2012 lp Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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