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Questions regarding Lou and the amnesty clause....Answers please


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#1 nuck luck

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:11 AM

1) Regardless of the new clauses the NHL wants to attach to the negotiations to penalize teams for circumventing the previous contract agreements, won't the amnesty clause give the teams an option to circumvent this?

If we used the amnesty clause on Lou... doesn't that mean we won't be held responsible for his cap when he retires?

2) If a team uses this amnesty clause on any given player, will it make that player a RFA or still property of the team?

3) If we use this amnesty clause on Lou...I'm assuming he will get paid out in full or a significant portion of his contract. If he does become a RFA... he could literally double his income without playing a single game this year! guess this isn't a question....

4) The way Bryz has been playing recently.... I'm pretty sure that Philly won't hesitate to use the amnesty clause on him. I wonder if Lou would accept a trade there and who we could get or want from them? (providing it doesn't make Lou a RFA)

What other teams would use this amnesty clause on their keepers? This should drive up Lou's return ten-fold....depending on the number of teams who would use the amnesty clause on their keepers. The only thing, supposedly, holding everyone back is the length of Lou's contract...if that wasn't part of the equation.... MG would be considered a genius for not trading Lou prior to the lockout :)

5) I wonder if this would make one of the Panthers prospects available or the Oilers? .... the untouchable ones?

6) I keep going back and forth.... I wanted Lou traded, but I'm a little worried about Schneids on his first stint. I think Schneids can handle it, but there's definitely thoughts that creep back in. I thought Lou had a problem keeping his mouth shut at certain times....than he turns things around during the lockout and I love everything he's saying. I think we won't get much for trading him, but the longer this runs and if the clause (above) comes into effect.....I think we can maximize our returns.

Regardless, I have HUGE respect for Lou for not screwing us around and demanding a trade or anything of the sort (I wouldn't have been surprised if he did)...he's letting MG hold the cards to try and get as much value as possible. If Lou acted otherwise, we'd be forced to trade him at a discount like Columbus and Nash.... (I guess this one isn't much of a question too)

I am excited to see Schneids at #1, but I'll be sad to see Lou go :( Love him or hate him....he is doing what he said from the beginning, he's doing everything he can to help bring Lord Stanley to Van (unfortunately, it may be via trading him).

Edited by nuck luck, 12 November 2012 - 09:07 AM.

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#2 goalie13

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 08:45 AM

At this point, the amnesty clause is just pure rumour / speculation, so it is impossible to answer any of your questions without guessing. Until the new CBA is agreed upon and ratified, nobody knows for sure.

Having said that though, based on what has been speculated...

1 - Yes, it essentially gives the team the option of walking away from the cap hit of one contract. Not certain yet if it gives them the ability to walk away from the dollars promised though.

2 - It would make them UFA.

3 - You're right, it's not a question.

4 - I don't see him wanting to go there. Stranger things have happened though.

5 - If a Panther prospect isn't available now, I don't see one coming available due to any amnesty clause. If Lu was bought out and released, he would be UFA and they could just sign him themselves.

6 - Again, not a question, but I basically agree with you.
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#3 smithers joe

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

if the nhl approved these deals as they circumvented the cap, i can't see how they can turn around and impose new rules on them now. i can see those contracts being grandfathered in.
why would the aquillini's payout 10 years of lu's contract?...the nhl approved the giant signings and contracts of nash, suter and parise. do they force these teams to renegotiate these deals and pay 10 mil each year for 5 yrs and then re-sign them for another 5 years...same with nashville?.....what about kovalchuk's contract?...
the league made a big mistake, leaving loop holes in the contract...the new cba needs to close those holes...from happening again.
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#4 TOMapleLaughs

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:29 AM

Too soon to tell.
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#5 Kesler's Nose

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:15 PM

People all think Schneids is the next Quick or something... I think everyone is gonna regret and miss trading Lu, he's a star through and through and no matter what haters or doubters say, he will go down as one of the best. Maybe not quite as good as Roy or Brodeur, but definitely just under and around that same calibre. I mean if Fleury and Niemi can win cups, I know Lu can do it too.

Forget seeing him on some crappy team like Toronto that in all likelihood won't even come close to winning a cup in the next 10 years or a Florida team that won't either.. I'd like to see him playing on a team like Philly as you stated, or Detroit or even Chicago. I wish him all the best no matter how it turns out in any case-- Schneids will do good, don't sweat it. :blink:

All that aside, I hope we see a new CBA so we can start watching hockey by Dec 1st, what a great birthday present that would be! :P
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#6 keslerian one

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:15 PM

I can't imagine MG using the amnesty clause on Luongo. It's usually for the likes of Wade Redden or Yashin contract, or the infamous RDP deal.

Luongo is still wanted by some teams; and if it was Lu's contract that made other teams hesitate, the availability of this amnesty provision would only strengthen his demand b/c other teams could now just buy him out at the end of his contract without taking a cap hit.

If MG has held out this long bc he doesn't like the trade offers coming his way, I strongly doubt he'll just buy Luongo out for nothing.

As for Schneider, I think the team is pretty set on making him a starter. Yes, he's "unproven" as a goalie who can play 50-60 games. But no young goalie comes "proven" - to that end, it is an inevitable "gamble" but note that he's proven to be an elite goaltender on every level. The biggest attribute Schneids has over Luongo is his age. No one's guaranteeing Schneider will have Quick's numbers and win us a championship. But it's a smart investment considering his track record, money, salary cap, age, potential, etc. etc.

Edited by keslerian one, 12 November 2012 - 06:19 PM.

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#7 Riviera82

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 06:54 PM

People all think Schneids is the next Quick or something... I think everyone is gonna regret and miss trading Lu, he's a star through and through and no matter what haters or doubters say, he will go down as one of the best. Maybe not quite as good as Roy or Brodeur, but definitely just under and around that same calibre. I mean if Fleury and Niemi can win cups, I know Lu can do it too.

Forget seeing him on some crappy team like Toronto that in all likelihood won't even come close to winning a cup in the next 10 years or a Florida team that won't either.. I'd like to see him playing on a team like Philly as you stated, or Detroit or even Chicago. I wish him all the best no matter how it turns out in any case-- Schneids will do good, don't sweat it. :blink:

All that aside, I hope we see a new CBA so we can start watching hockey by Dec 1st, what a great birthday present that would be! :P


I'm sorry, Luongo will never be mentioned in the same breath as Roy or Brodeur. Those guys have multiple Stanley Cups, Vezinas, Jennings, All-star appearances, Hall of Fame inductions (Roy now, Brodeur later), and are 1-2 in wins regular season and playoffs.
As for Fleury and Niemi winning cups and Luongo not, those guys were clutch when they needed to be for as long as it took to win their respective cups. Luongo never has been and with his track record of melting down might never will be. He is going on 34 years old so he has very few years to get his sh*t together.
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#8 winacup

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 09:32 PM

People all think Schneids is the next Quick or something... I think everyone is gonna regret and miss trading Lu, he's a star through and through and no matter what haters or doubters say, he will go down as one of the best. Maybe not quite as good as Roy or Brodeur, but definitely just under and around that same calibre. I mean if Fleury and Niemi can win cups, I know Lu can do it too.

Forget seeing him on some crappy team like Toronto that in all likelihood won't even come close to winning a cup in the next 10 years or a Florida team that won't either.. I'd like to see him playing on a team like Philly as you stated, or Detroit or even Chicago. I wish him all the best no matter how it turns out in any case-- Schneids will do good, don't sweat it. :blink:

All that aside, I hope we see a new CBA so we can start watching hockey by Dec 1st, what a great birthday present that would be! :P


Roy & Brodeur - clutch

Luongo - choke

This is how they will forever be remembered.
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#9 CanucksSayEh

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Posted 12 November 2012 - 10:10 PM

Schnieder is not the next Quick, he's already better.
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#10 Derp...

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:10 AM

All I'm saying is Luongo should play more nhl13, and get his confidence back with the Canucks cause he's op in that game
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#11 beer&meat

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:22 AM

I'm sorry, Luongo will never be mentioned in the same breath as Roy or Brodeur. Those guys have multiple Stanley Cups, Vezinas, Jennings, All-star appearances, Hall of Fame inductions (Roy now, Brodeur later), and are 1-2 in wins regular season and playoffs.
As for Fleury and Niemi winning cups and Luongo not, those guys were clutch when they needed to be for as long as it took to win their respective cups. Luongo never has been and with his track record of melting down might never will be. He is going on 34 years old so he has very few years to get his sh*t together.


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Luo will finish his career in the top 10 without a doubt.
Oh ya....."Might never will be"? :sadno:

Edited by beer&meat, 13 November 2012 - 09:26 AM.

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#12 beer&meat

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 09:28 AM

Schnieder is not the next Quick, he's already better.


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I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

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#13 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:50 AM

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Luo will finish his career in the top 10 without a doubt.
Oh ya....."Might never will be"? :sadno:

Would bet you anything that Lu will retire not in the top 10 in playoff wins because he has to more than double his current total and then some to do that.
If you think it is fair to compare Lu to Brodeur and Roy then you are beyond stupid.
Lu has about the 1/5 of playoff wins as Roy,,,1/3 of Brodeur.
Roy and Broduer combined for 7 stanley cups and 7 vezinas,,,Lu has ZERO.
Lu came to a Canucks team that average 99 points for the 3 seasons prior to being traded here. A team that had the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler ready to become good/stars in this league and in Lu's 6 years here has 32 playoff wins for an average of 5.33 or 1 million dollars salary for an ungodly length of time per playoff win.
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#14 beer&meat

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:51 PM

Would bet you anything that Lu will retire not in the top 10 in playoff wins because he has to more than double his current total and then some to do that.
If you think it is fair to compare Lu to Brodeur and Roy then you are beyond stupid.
Lu has about the 1/5 of playoff wins as Roy,,,1/3 of Brodeur.
Roy and Broduer combined for 7 stanley cups and 7 vezinas,,,Lu has ZERO.
Lu came to a Canucks team that average 99 points for the 3 seasons prior to being traded here. A team that had the Sedins, Burrows, Kesler ready to become good/stars in this league and in Lu's 6 years here has 32 playoff wins for an average of 5.33 or 1 million dollars salary for an ungodly length of time per playoff win.


I never catogorized, I simply said he would finish top 10 in wins all time, that is NOT arguable.
The fact of the matter is Luongo was a major factor in putting the Canucks on the map. I never said it was fair to compare, obviously it was a different game back then, but the new NHL has to have superstar goalies aswell, and in this new NHL Luongo is one of the best in the game. You can spout off all you want about him not winning the SC but it's not an individual game it's a team sport.
Is there another prior Canucks goalie who has 32 playoff wins in 6 years?
Sounds to me like you another "fan" who thinks because you have a good goalie you automatically should win the SC, and if they don't then he is your scapegoat.
Stop being a fan of the Stanly Cup and start being a fan of the game, it really makes it much more enjoyable
Oh ya, you really shouldn't bring money into the equasion, because it's not your money so it shouldn't matter what he makes.
"I pay for tickets, merchandise so I do pay his wages" is not a valid arguement either. You pay F.A. and he pays the players, you have NO idea where your funds ended up.
Will Luongo's name be mentioned in the same breathe as Roy and Brodeur? absolutly.
Is it a fair comparison? tough to say as the game was too different when they played, still doesn't take away from Luongo and how great he's played in todays game.
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I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

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#15 Riviera82

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 12:57 PM

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Luo will finish his career in the top 10 without a doubt.
Oh ya....."Might never will be"? :sadno:


So out of the two of us, I am the stupid one?
Like I already mentioned, Roy and Brodeur have won numerous major awards, are 1-2 in wins, are and will be Hall of Famers.
Luongo has a share of the Jennings trophy and very few years left to accomplish anything significant, especially since he will probably finish up in Florida or TO. You cannot mention Luongo alongside those other two guys.
You've got the stupid market cornered, F off.
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#16 Get real canuck fans

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 02:58 PM

I never catogorized, I simply said he would finish top 10 in wins all time, that is NOT arguable.
The fact of the matter is Luongo was a major factor in putting the Canucks on the map. I never said it was fair to compare, obviously it was a different game back then, but the new NHL has to have superstar goalies aswell, and in this new NHL Luongo is one of the best in the game. You can spout off all you want about him not winning the SC but it's not an individual game it's a team sport.
Is there another prior Canucks goalie who has 32 playoff wins in 6 years?
Sounds to me like you another "fan" who thinks because you have a good goalie you automatically should win the SC, and if they don't then he is your scapegoat.
Stop being a fan of the Stanly Cup and start being a fan of the game, it really makes it much more enjoyable
Oh ya, you really shouldn't bring money into the equasion, because it's not your money so it shouldn't matter what he makes.
"I pay for tickets, merchandise so I do pay his wages" is not a valid arguement either. You pay F.A. and he pays the players, you have NO idea where your funds ended up.
Will Luongo's name be mentioned in the same breathe as Roy and Brodeur? absolutly.
Is it a fair comparison? tough to say as the game was too different when they played, still doesn't take away from Luongo and how great he's played in todays game.


He still needs 72 wins to make 10th, and if he is not dealt and is the Canucks back up and plays poorly to start the season Mr Luongo will make himself basically valueless and will remain with us until he is inevitably sent to the minors.
Almost 34 year old goalies who have 45 million remaining are really not that high in demand, and if there is no season period this year it is much more likely he will NOT make top 10 in wins.
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#17 beer&meat

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:10 PM

So out of the two of us, I am the stupid one?
Like I already mentioned, Roy and Brodeur have won numerous major awards, are 1-2 in wins, are and will be Hall of Famers.
Luongo has a share of the Jennings trophy and very few years left to accomplish anything significant, especially since he will probably finish up in Florida or TO. You cannot mention Luongo alongside those other two guys.
You've got the stupid market cornered, F off.


With comments like "Might never will be"?

Jennings

Game 7 SCF

Multiple Vezina nominations.

In five seasons with Florida, Luongo established team records for most all-time games played, wins and shutouts.

Following his second year with the Canucks, he became the first NHL goaltender to serve as a team captain since 1947–48 season

In Vancouver, Luongo has become the team's all-time wins and shutouts leader.

Internationally, Luongo has competed for Team Canada in numerous tournaments. As a junior, he won a silver medal at the 1999 World Junior Championships, while being named Best Goaltender in his second tournament appearance. Luongo has won two gold medals at the 2003 and 2004 World Championships and a silver in the 2005 World Championships. He also won the 2004 World Cup championship and appeared in the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin as a backup to Martin Brodeur in both instances. He succeeded Brodeur as Canada's starting goaltender during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, winning a gold medal.

Luongo has a better SV% than both Roy and Brodeur and a better GAA than Roy (That may change by the time he retires, only time will tell).
Pretty impressive resume if you ask me.

Although he has not won a Stanly Cup yet, you're ignorance and willingness to try and discredit the man because "he didn't win you a Stanly Cup" is ridiculous.
Win or not, Luongo will go down in hockey history as one of the best to play the game (with Roy / Brodeur) in this generation, despite your uneducated opinion.
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I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

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#18 beer&meat

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:16 PM

He still needs 72 wins to make 10th, and if he is not dealt and is the Canucks back up and plays poorly to start the season Mr Luongo will make himself basically valueless and will remain with us until he is inevitably sent to the minors.
Almost 34 year old goalies who have 45 million remaining are really not that high in demand, and if there is no season period this year it is much more likely he will NOT make top 10 in wins.


:picard:
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I don't ride with the band, I roll with the team.

I've been a Canuck fan since 2004-05 when the team was going through a huge transition phase, missed the playoffs


#19 WHL rocks

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 03:50 PM

I doubt there will be amnesty but if there is I think Ballard is the one who would be bought out, not Luongo.

Edited by WHL rocks, 13 November 2012 - 04:16 PM.

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#20 Westcoasting

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:12 PM

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Luo will finish his career in the top 10 without a doubt.
Oh ya....."Might never will be"? :sadno:


He won't make the hall of fame like Roy and Brodeur. He will be mentioned with goalies like Curtis Joseph... good goalies but not great.
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#21 James van Riemsdyk

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:36 PM

He's on the same level as all the elite goalie of this era, maybe better. Everyone has bad moments I don't understand why we're so angry at Luongo for making a couple of mistakes last year. Everyone's constant harping isn't making him feel any better. I know he had some bad mistakes and I too want something of good value in return for his trade if he does end up leaving our team. I just want him to leave on a good note as one of the best goalies of our franchise and not as someone who shatter our dreams for Lord Stanley.

Sorry if i'm wrong but isn't he 2nd in the league with most shutouts as an active player only behind Brodeur?
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#22 winacup

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 08:42 PM

He's on the same level as all the elite goalie of this era, maybe better. Everyone has bad moments I don't understand why we're so angry at Luongo for making a couple of mistakes last year. Everyone's constant harping isn't making him feel any better. I know he had some bad mistakes and I too want something of good value in return for his trade if he does end up leaving our team. I just want him to leave on a good note as one of the best goalies of our franchise and not as someone who shatter our dreams for Lord Stanley.

Sorry if i'm wrong but isn't he 2nd in the league with most shutouts as an active player only behind Brodeur?


it's way too late fror that.....
thanks to lu we lost the stanley cup by the greatest goal differential in modern day nhl history

Edited by winacup, 13 November 2012 - 10:21 PM.

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#23 Nino

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Posted 13 November 2012 - 10:23 PM

He's on the same level as all the elite goalie of this era, maybe better. Everyone has bad moments I don't understand why we're so angry at Luongo for making a couple of mistakes last year. Everyone's constant harping isn't making him feel any better. I know he had some bad mistakes and I too want something of good value in return for his trade if he does end up leaving our team. I just want him to leave on a good note as one of the best goalies of our franchise and not as someone who shatter our dreams for Lord Stanley.

Sorry if i'm wrong but isn't he 2nd in the league with most shutouts as an active player only behind Brodeur?


I didn't know it was our job to make him (the conceded prick) feel better? I know that he asked Tim to pump his tires as he was letting us all know how he would have made saves that Tim didn't, but I don't recall him asking that of us.

If anything he should apologize to the fans for not playing as he could when the games were important. That is why he will never be called one of the greats, because he never played his best when the games were the most important. Great goalie but not when push came to shove.

Why do you think Boston traded joe? He is the same player, great in the reg season but you don't want him on your team in the playoffs. It worked for Boston, clean out the dead beats=cup.
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#24 Riviera82

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:47 AM

With comments like "Might never will be"?

Jennings

Game 7 SCF

Multiple Vezina nominations.

In five seasons with Florida, Luongo established team records for most all-time games played, wins and shutouts.

Following his second year with the Canucks, he became the first NHL goaltender to serve as a team captain since 1947–48 season

In Vancouver, Luongo has become the team's all-time wins and shutouts leader.

Internationally, Luongo has competed for Team Canada in numerous tournaments. As a junior, he won a silver medal at the 1999 World Junior Championships, while being named Best Goaltender in his second tournament appearance. Luongo has won two gold medals at the 2003 and 2004 World Championships and a silver in the 2005 World Championships. He also won the 2004 World Cup championship and appeared in the 2006 Winter Olympics in Turin as a backup to Martin Brodeur in both instances. He succeeded Brodeur as Canada's starting goaltender during the 2010 Winter Olympics in Vancouver, winning a gold medal.

Luongo has a better SV% than both Roy and Brodeur and a better GAA than Roy (That may change by the time he retires, only time will tell).
Pretty impressive resume if you ask me.

Although he has not won a Stanly Cup yet, you're ignorance and willingness to try and discredit the man because "he didn't win you a Stanly Cup" is ridiculous.
Win or not, Luongo will go down in hockey history as one of the best to play the game (with Roy / Brodeur) in this generation, despite your uneducated opinion.


Ok fine, "might never will be" may not have been the right choice of words. Seems like your'e nitpicking though because I dont think as highly of your guy Luongo as you do. However, you have raised some interesting points.

Jennings - He shares it with Schneider but has one nonetheless.
Game 7 SCF - Didn't win and didn't have a very good game considering it was arguably the biggest of his life.
Multiple Vezina nominations - 3 total, 2 in Van and 1 in Fla, 0 wins.
3 records held with the Panthers - They've had such a storied history of goaltending....
Captain of the Canucks - Rumor has it that Canucks management only gave him the captaincy to keep him in Vancouver and what a great idea that turned out to be. 2 seasons later he was stripped of it, not that it should've even happened in the first place.
Wins and shutout leader - There is no doubt about this, however our goaltending records weren't terribly hard to break and he's had a pretty good team to work with for much of the time.
Junior career and WCs - I dont know much about that so I'll take your word for it, very impressive.
Olympics - Yes he was a backup in 2006 and yes he won gold in 2010, he played well but again had a fairly good team to work with.
Luongo has a better GAA and Sv% than Roy and Brodeur - In the regular season yes, in the playoffs a huge NO. Which is more important?

Anyway, you can have your opinion and believe Luongo is on the same level as Roy and Brodeur, that is your business. To me it seems unrealistic to compare a guy who has won very little of serious significance to two other guys who have full trophy cases and Hall of Fame status.
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#25 Riviera82

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 12:55 AM

He won't make the hall of fame like Roy and Brodeur. He will be mentioned with goalies like Curtis Joseph... good goalies but not great.


That is a very good comparison and very appropriate.
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#26 Westcoasting

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 09:58 AM

That is a very good comparison and very appropriate.


And the funny thing is that Joseph was always considered the goalie who never got it done in the playoffs... but he actually had a number of great playoff performances. He also had a couple vezina nominations i believe but came up short. In my mind he is the perfect comparison to Luongo.
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#27 Pears

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 10:13 AM

it's way too late fror that.....
thanks to lu we lost the stanley cup by the greatest goal differential in modern day nhl history

*Thanks to 60% of our team being injured which lead to only 8 goals being scored. Seriously, those who only blame Lu* for our SC loss are ridiculous and are obviously just haters.

I'll tell you again, stop trolling.
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In my eyes drouin is overrated he can score in the qmjhl but did nothing in last two gold medal games that canada lost. Fox will be better pro than him talk to me in five yrs

Gaudreau has one NHL goal whereas all your "prized" prospects have none.

   ryan kesler is going to the chicago blackhawks ...       quote me on it


#28 winacup

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:11 AM

lu embarrassed this team and this city both on and off the ice in the scf.
bring up injuries (or refs or nhl conspiracy) all you want. bottom line is that his job was to close the door so that the team in front of him, regardless of the obstacles in their path would still have a chance to win. he failed to do that big time in all three games in Boston and more importantly in the biggest game of his life, the one that all canadian kids dream of being the hero in, game 7 of the scf.

Edited by winacup, 14 November 2012 - 11:12 AM.

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#29 EmployeeoftheMonth

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 11:13 AM

lu embarrassed this team and this city both on and off the ice in the scf.
bring up injuries (or refs or nhl conspiracy) all you want. bottom line is that his job was to close the door so that the team in front of him, regardless of the obstacles in their path would still have a chance to win. he failed to do that in all three games in Boston and more importantly in the biggest game of his life, the one that all canadian kids dream of being the hero in, game 7 of the scf.

Who's job was it to score? They lost us the cup as well.

If The team scored 30 goals in that series and won would you give Luongo all the credit?


Make all the excuses you want...the team lost that series.
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#30 Riviera82

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Posted 14 November 2012 - 06:19 PM

Who's job was it to score? They lost us the cup as well.

If The team scored 30 goals in that series and won would you give Luongo all the credit?


Make all the excuses you want...the team lost that series.


I'd say they won in spite of him but he was good enough to win, I guess. It would be kind of a Grant Fuhr and the '80s Oilers situation.

Edited by Riviera82, 14 November 2012 - 06:20 PM.

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