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[Discussion] Roberto Luongo Trade Thread 5.0


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#2221 Italia2006

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 08:51 PM

The difference between Finn and Petrovic long term isn't really anything.

They both project to be the same thing, 3rd or 4th D-man, just 2nd pair guys. They just play difference styles. Petrovic brings more physicality, while Finn is a more reliable and fluid player. Offense is probably the same, or maybe Finn gets the edge in due to his advantage in skating.

Finn is just not as far along, I like Petro more, but Finn could very well turn out to be the same.



I know what kind of player he is.

He is like Pahlsson, just a tad less defensively IMO, and a bit more offense. He is still defensive center but he can puts some points up now and then.

Is he a big upgrade on Lappy though? Offense the same, Lappy is more physical, both are solid defensively. I just don't see a major upgrade.

That's why I say if we can get a good two-way guy who is a clearly a nice upgrade, then I would look into it, if Goc is in the deal as one of the major assets, I would look at something else.


That's why I think we make a 3 way deal. We need a young effective player that can help us out now. O'reilly in a 3 way deal. Colorado are thin on players and I'm sure they would listen.
That is the other reason why I think this deal is taking so long. There will be more than one team involved in any Luongo deal.

Edited by Italia2006, 08 February 2013 - 08:54 PM.

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#2222 oldnews

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 09:15 PM

That's why I think we make a 3 way deal. We need a young effective player that can help us out now. O'reilly in a 3 way deal. Colorado are thin on players and I'm sure they would listen.
That is the other reason why I think this deal is taking so long. There will be more than one team involved in any Luongo deal.

?
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#2223 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:06 PM

Ok Smashian - don't see much point of going any further with you on this.
Petrovic and Finn are quite different type players and Petrovic is a righthanded guy as opposed to Finn,
Goc imo is not comparable to Pahlsson or Lapierre who, as much as I like both of them, aren't really two way players - simply not bottom six guys in the 30-40 point range while still getting the defensive zone starts and facing the toughest competition. I love Lapierre and Malhotra but I see them as ideal fourth liners who give us a depth advantage - Goc imo is the type of player who does the same on the third line - on the offensive side, the difference between potential 20 and 40 point players.
IMO Goc is more comparable to Higgins and Hansen in the sense of the defensive and offensive balance to their games.
The Canucks don't really need a major roster asset in a Luongo deal - the bulk of the return imo is best left in the form or prospects/futures, both for cap reasons and adding some organizational balance to the depth of prospect pool.


I meant Pahlsson in his prime, not the Pahlsson we saw last year. And Pahlsson in his prime was nominated for a Selke, something Goc will never be.

I understand what Goc is, but there just isn't quite as much offense there as you think, not at the level of Higgins or Hansen, more like Lappierre.
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#2224 Italia2006

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:06 PM

?

I believe there will be more than one team involved in the Luongo deal.
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#2225 oldnews

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:16 PM

I believe there will be more than one team involved in the Luongo deal.


O'Reilly would be ideal wouldn't he? A very well rounded young center.

Luo to TO
Gardiner to the AVs
O'Reilly, Frattin to the Nucks. ::D
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#2226 Italia2006

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:19 PM

O'Reilly would be ideal wouldn't he? A very well rounded young center.

Luo to TO
Gardiner to the AVs
O'Reilly, Frattin to the Nucks. ::D

That is the most sensible deal I've heard and I don't think it's too far off. We may have to add a bit to the deal but it would help out now and down the road.
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#2227 oldnews

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:21 PM

I understand what Goc is, but there just isn't quite as much offense there as you think, not at the level of Higgins or Hansen, more like Lappierre.


Goc 81 points in his last 181 games.
Lappy 47 in his last 246.
Higgy 92 points in his last 210.
Hansen 89 in 236.

Edited by oldnews, 08 February 2013 - 10:26 PM.

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#2228 eretz canucks

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:21 PM

Excellent post
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#2229 oldnews

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:23 PM

That is the most sensible deal I've heard and I don't think it's too far off. We may have to add a bit to the deal but it would help out now and down the road.


If TO doesn't like it we add a 2nd and they add a 1st. ::D
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#2230 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:24 PM

Gardiner isn't going anywhere, reading a few threads on HF only confirm my opinion.

He is so underrated here.
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#2231 eretz canucks

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:25 PM

I like it- TO may be willing to part with Gardiner now that they have a glimpse of life without him and it's not so bad. They have Reilly coming up next year anyway. I'd send Higgins or Raymond to Avs or TO whoever feels most hard done by
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#2232 oldnews

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:28 PM

I like it- TO may be willing to part with Gardiner now that they have a glimpse of life without him and it's not so bad. They have Reilly coming up next year anyway. I'd send Higgins or Raymond to Avs or TO whoever feels most hard done by


If they wouldn't they're deluded - and I wouldn't give them a penny nickel more - they're already getting away with only moving Gardiner and Frattin - for Luo they shouldn't think twice - that is, unless they finally decided to move Kessel and Phaneuf (ie rebuild-on-the-go and go young / not try to send them this way)

Edited by oldnews, 08 February 2013 - 10:31 PM.

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#2233 Pears

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 10:33 PM

O'Reilly would be ideal wouldn't he? A very well rounded young center.

Luo to TO
Gardiner to the AVs
O'Reilly, Frattin to the Nucks. ::D

That is as close as it gets to being a perfect trade

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Schroeder
Frattin - O'Reilly - Kassian
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond, Malhotra, Volpatti, Weise

Lovin' it.
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#2234 MJDDawg

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Posted 08 February 2013 - 11:39 PM

That is as close as it gets to being a perfect trade

Sedin - Sedin - Burrows
Booth - Kesler - Schroeder
Frattin - O'Reilly - Kassian
Higgins - Lapierre - Hansen
Raymond, Malhotra, Volpatti, Weise

Lovin' it.


Holy crap! That third line looks sick!

All young guys who can learn their craft over the next 3 or 4 years without the pressure of top 6 responsibility. If the twins decide to hang them up and go back home in 4 years, they become our second line. Similar to the progression of Kess and Burr from third to second to first line and the twins when they were behind the westcoast express. Jensen and Gaunce will hopefully be able to slot in at some point as well. All bigger, faster, stronger players. I like where MG is taking us.

Edited by MJDDawg, 08 February 2013 - 11:42 PM.

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#2235 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:11 AM

O'Reilly would be ideal wouldn't he? A very well rounded young center.

Luo to TO
Gardiner to the AVs
O'Reilly, Frattin to the Nucks. ::D


Not to burst your bubble.

But Colorado would never do it, and I doubt Toronto would either unless they are the ones getting O'Reilly.
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#2236 Edlerberry

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 12:36 AM

Noone should even be talking about this until something actually happens.


FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU
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July 7-2013

Toronto will take a step back next year.
Feel free to quote me.


July 8-2013

Wow I can't believe peoples replies...
Im done here. You people are disgusting..


#2237 Gollumpus

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:11 AM

Compliance Buy-out B)


I was working under the assumption that the Canucks would want to keep Upshall for the next two years. :)

regards,
G.
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#2238 The Bookie

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:15 AM

O'Reilly would be ideal wouldn't he? A very well rounded young center.

Luo to TO
Gardiner to the AVs
O'Reilly, Frattin to the Nucks. ::D


I like it but still not realistic. We'd need to add more. Raymond to the AVs, 2nd to TO?
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#2239 Pears

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:24 AM

I like it but still not realistic. We'd need to add more. Raymond to the AVs, 2nd to TO?

That could work as well. I was maybe thinking something like this if oldnews' proposal is rejected:

To Vancouver: Matt Frattin, Ryan O'Reilly, Ben Scrivens
To Toronto: Roberto Luongo, Semyon Varlamov, Van 2013 2nd
To Colorado: Jake Gardiner, James Reimer, Keith Ballard, Mason Raymond

Everyone's needs are pretty much met. Toronto's greatly upgrades in goal, Colorado gets some much needed help on defense, and we get some insurance in center, who is basically just waiting to have a breakout year.
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#2240 The Bookie

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:28 AM

I don't know Stamkos, a trade like that might have flown in the 80s or 90s, or mmmmaybe more recently if Burke was involved, but in this day and age? oldnews' proposal was already a little out there but I think with Lu's contract a 3-way could be the way to go. This has made me reflect upon the fact that the day of the blockbuster, 3+ team trade has faded in tandem with the increasing restrictions of the salary cap era. There's just not that much room these days to float so many players around the league.

Edited by The Bookie, 09 February 2013 - 01:31 AM.

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#2241 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:30 AM

I was working under the assumption that the Canucks would want to keep Upshall for the next two years. :)

regards,
G.


Lol no, we can't afford to have him around went the cap drops.

That could work as well. I was maybe thinking something like this if oldnews' proposal is rejected:

To Vancouver: Matt Frattin, Ryan O'Reilly, Ben Scrivens
To Toronto: Roberto Luongo, Semyon Varlamov, Van 2013 2nd
To Colorado: Jake Gardiner, James Reimer, Keith Ballard, Mason Raymond

Everyone's needs are pretty much met. Toronto's greatly upgrades in goal, Colorado gets some much needed help on defense, and we get some insurance in center, who is basically just waiting to have a breakout year.


They still won't do it, they value O'Reilly really highly.
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#2242 goblix

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 01:45 AM

That could work as well. I was maybe thinking something like this if oldnews' proposal is rejected:

To Vancouver: Matt Frattin, Ryan O'Reilly, Ben Scrivens
To Toronto: Roberto Luongo, Semyon Varlamov, Van 2013 2nd
To Colorado: Jake Gardiner, James Reimer, Keith Ballard, Mason Raymond

Everyone's needs are pretty much met. Toronto's greatly upgrades in goal, Colorado gets some much needed help on defense, and we get some insurance in center, who is basically just waiting to have a breakout year.


What the frick...
Why would Toronto trade both of their goalies away, no way they trade 4 young prospects away in one trade, and they don't need a return of 2 goalies, Scrivens and Reimer are good backups and they are still young enough to develop into starters.
Overall I believe that they are content with riding the season as is.

Makes no sense for Colorado to trade Varlamov since he > Reimer.

How much is O'Reilly asking for anyways, I know there is contractual animosity right now where he is asking above what Colorado wants to pay.
He reminds me of somewhat of Kesler that uses his wingers more often
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#2243 Gollumpus

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:17 AM

Goc might be an upgrade, but I'm still not sold on just how much of an upgrade he'd be.

If he is brought in to replace Malhotra, the team may gain some offense, but could lose in faceoff results. Would the potential offensive gain be enough to off-set those possible defensive zone faceoff losses? He is signed to one more year at $1.7 million which is below Malhotra's contract (which expires at the end of this season).

If Goc was brought in to replace Lapierre then there would likely be a gain in offense, but there would also be a loss in team "toughness" and someone who fills the agitator role which, to my understanding is not a role that Goc can fill.

If Goc was brought in to replace Shroeder, this would be a bit of a no contest purely due to Schroeder's inexperience.

There are certainly differences in the situation each player was in with previous teams. Higgins certainly produced more when he was with Montreal than he has here, but that being said, he had a very productive season in 2011 - 12 playing mostly on the 3rd line. Hansen did get some time playing with the Sedins which may well account for a big chunk of his points from last season, or, are they a sign that he has much more offensive potential than he has previously received credit?


Goc 81 points in his last 181 games.
Lappy 47 in his last 246.
Higgy 92 points in his last 210.
Hansen 89 in 236.


Goc: 450 games - 136 pts (a point every 3.3 games)
Lapierre: 425 games - 105 pts (a point every 4 games)
Higgins: 492 games - 243 pts (a point every 2 games)
Hansen: 281 career games - 110 pts (a point every 2.5 games)
Malhotra: 863 games - 278 pts (a point in every 3.1 games)


regards,
G.
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#2244 Smashian Kassian

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 02:22 AM

Lets just say:

Luongo for Johansson and Orlov then be done with it :)
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#2245 King of the ES

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:00 AM

LOL

No we shouldn't. We should hang up and throw the phone out the window.


Very short-sighted thinking, as usual.

What are we going to do next year, Smashian? You know, that time when we do need to get rid of one of the two guys? What do you think will happen to the price of Luongo if he's kept this entire season, and then it's basically a known fact that we have X amount of days/weeks/months before we need to get rid of him? How do you think that impacts his price?

And do you really want a $4 - $5M asset riding the pine in the playoffs? Is that a good use of cap dollars? I can see it now, if we were to get bounced in the first round (again), the excuse then becomes "well, this was a unique year, MG had to wait to solve the goaltending issue", etc.

Brouwer and a 1st would be a fantastic return for Luongo, and MG would be crazy to say no if it was offered (which I doubt it was/is).

Edited by King of the ES, 09 February 2013 - 08:00 AM.

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#2246 King of the ES

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:10 AM

How is he any better than Nuevirth or Holtby? Or even Riemer/Scrivens.

The thing you are missing with Bernier is that these teams that are interested, have the exact same thing, they are looking for a proven #1 that will come in and give the team a backbone, they aren't looking to take a risk and pay a big price for a young guy with some upside, they already have guys like that. It is a laterial move from what they currently have, and they would give up important assets to do so.

Makes no sense.



You make a decent and fair point, but none of those 4 guys have the pedigree that Bernier has. Being drafted 11th overall and really nothing happening since that pick to suggest that it was a bad one - he was a star in the AHL and has been very promising in the NHL - carries some cache. You may as well ask the same question of Schneider - how is he better than any of those 4 guys? Bit bigger of an NHL sample size, sure, but not that much, and he is 2 years older.

And regarding "a proven #1 that will come in and give the team a backbone", why wouldn't they also want a guy like Kiprusoff, Miller, Howard, Thomas, Smith, or any of the other #1's that could also be available through trade this year? Why bind themselves to a guy like Luongo for the next 9 years?
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#2247 Canucks fan in chicago

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:12 AM

We keep on overvaluing Luongo on here. At best we'll get prospect/backup goalie/draft pick. If Luongo was 5 years younger and had a 5 year deal then we'd be talking.
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#2248 King of the ES

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 08:22 AM

Luo to TO
Gardiner to the AVs
O'Reilly, Frattin to the Nucks. ::D


Not a bad proposal, actually, but I still don't think Toronto does it. Would directly contradict Nonis' "we won't be trading young players for old players" comment.

And plus, O'Reilly (I believe) is wanting pretty serious money, which is why he's holding out.
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#2249 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:31 AM

Brouwer + 1st + Holtby wouldn't be a bad return. It wouldn't be a 'fleecing' but it would be a good trade IMO. Brouwer is a character guy who can score 40 points and throw his weight around. He's a local kid with a cup ring. He's signed long term and pretty much everything you want in a guy on your 3rd line who can step up into the top-6 if needed (like now).

Two 1sts in the next draft (a deep one) is key, esp. with the way WSH has played. A contending team getting a 2nd 1st round pick would be a huge relief for Gillis.

However, I think GMGM is being honest that he won't do anything radical. He'll make 1-2 small moves and hope for the best IMO.
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#2250 oldnews

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Posted 09 February 2013 - 09:47 AM

Not to burst your bubble.

But Colorado would never do it, and I doubt Toronto would either unless they are the ones getting O'Reilly.


Ok Bob. No bubble to burst, so no worries.
And I'm very surprised by your response.... :bigblush:

Luo to Florida for mid range roster player and futures is my bubble - this proposal was more of a make conversation thing - I think a three way deal will be difficult and complicated at that level, but Italia likes O'Reilly, (so do I), so I had a go, even though I knew it would not meet your approval.
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