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This Team Needs A Greybeard for the Playoffs


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#31 canucksnihilist

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Posted 15 February 2013 - 11:50 PM

Malholtra, Samuelson and salo...

All 3 injured.

Wake up?

#32 Kassian's Face

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 01:51 AM

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#33 boxiebrown

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 04:30 AM

Trust me, it's not just a coincidence that all these veterans are winning more and more Cups while younger guys stay hungry. These guys are playoff performers and have built their reputation on playing their best hockey in the playoffs. Having a guy like that on any team boosts everyone around them.

It's not just a simple correlation, it's history and it's been repeating itself year after year.


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DownUndaCanuck: But it correlates!!

#34 Gooseberries

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 05:03 AM

Someone said smyth... I'd like that. Whitney isn't happy in Edmonton. Could probably get him for next to nothing.

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#35 NexusRift

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 07:00 AM

Well traveled, grizzly veteran Stanley Cup experienced players are few and far between it seems. Yes. Jagr would be included in that category and would've been a great addition to a team like our 'Nucks, but he's with the Stars and that's that.

Seems nowadays that most greybeards are Europeans; Hejduk, Datsyuk, to name a couple. And the trend it seems is to stay loyal to the team that brought them success. By all appearances, they're not going anywhere. They've got their SC ring and to go searching for another with other teams probably isn't important after that.

Other than the players already mentioned in this thread, Chris Pronger, Rob Blake, Claude Lemieux, Marc Recchi, Brett Hull, Joe Nieuwendyk, have helped other teams to succeed in the post season. Of course, they're no longer playing.

The trend now seems to be to acquire high profile players; Mike Richards/Jeff Carter with LA, Ryan Sutter/Zach Parise with the Wild, Kessel/JVR/Phaneuf with TO, etc. Also it seems long term contracts are the norm as well for these younger star type players.

The business and culture of NHL hockey has definitely changed throughout the years. But the process of building a winning team still follows a formula that is still adhered to; a strong core of ones own drafted players supplemented with a mix of free agents and trades to compliment them.
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#36 Bodee

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:02 AM

They should have signed Jagr.


Well said, you got there before me.

We had Pahlsson and Bitz and see how far that got us.............seriously though I tend to think it depends what "greybeards" you are talking about. Jagr? probably...Arrnott? probably but there are not many around who are available and of a high enough standard.

Edited by Bodee, 16 February 2013 - 09:09 AM.

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#37 aqua59

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:17 AM

They won't add any one until the dead line when it comes to a grey beard.

#38 WeatherWise

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:20 AM

In terms of grey beards, Trevor Linden's appearance has changed dramatically over the past 5 years. It's tough to believe he's only 42.
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#39 MC Fatigue

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 09:21 AM

pretty much the same team but who is missing from the team that went to the finals? oh yeah the experienced and older guys maholtra samuelson and salo.


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#40 OrdinaryBoy

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Posted 16 February 2013 - 10:40 AM

Malhotra was our oldest veteran? He's 32.

#41 Phil_314

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:25 AM

What the team really needs is players who can step up their play in the post-season. Contrary to the whole "formula" thing proposed by Don Cherry, success comes through having a couple of clutch top offensive players who thrive in the heat of the moment plus a depth guy or two, who play bigger than they are and are able to get the job done in higher stakes, along with a goalie who gets hot at the right time.

I think if somehow the team could get Bergenheim (17 points in 23 playoff games) and Marcel Goc as part of any potential deal for Lu they could really be set for the playoffs. Sean Bergenheim, while somewhat small, really steps up his play. I also came across an article on advanced stats that really praises his ability to drive play from the defensive end of the ice against high levels of competition (http://thehockeywrit...goc-underrated/); it's really this kind of ability to drive opponents back and shut them down when it counts, plus the timely goal, that really gets the job done.

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#42 DeNiro

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:38 AM

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#43 ajhockey

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:45 AM

Someone said smyth... I'd like that. Whitney isn't happy in Edmonton. Could probably get him for next to nothing.


Whitney is 29, not exactly old. You may be mixed up with Ray Whitney.

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#44 pwnstar

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 02:46 AM

We had Salo in '11.


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#45 thema

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:02 AM

Sedins, Kesler, Higgins, Raymond, Hansen, Lappy, Edler, Bieksa, Ballard, Tanev, Luongo and Schnid all went to game 7 of the finals.. i think they have enough experience.


Alas they all quit trying after game 5 of the finals.

#46 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:46 AM

What the team really needs is players who can step up their play in the post-season. Contrary to the whole "formula" thing proposed by Don Cherry, success comes through having a couple of clutch top offensive players who thrive in the heat of the moment plus a depth guy or two, who play bigger than they are and are able to get the job done in higher stakes, along with a goalie who gets hot at the right time.

I think if somehow the team could get Bergenheim (17 points in 23 playoff games) and Marcel Goc as part of any potential deal for Lu they could really be set for the playoffs. Sean Bergenheim, while somewhat small, really steps up his play. I also came across an article on advanced stats that really praises his ability to drive play from the defensive end of the ice against high levels of competition (http://thehockeywrit...goc-underrated/); it's really this kind of ability to drive opponents back and shut them down when it counts, plus the timely goal, that really gets the job done.


I do agree that some players lift their game for the playoffs while other stars fade out, but if you look at their stats the Canucks have a few consistent players who bring the same game to the playoffs. The Sedins barely skipped a beat, a healthy Kesler definately improved his play for the playoffs and guys like Hansen, Lapierre, Burrows and Higgins all scored at a similar click to the regular season.

The only problem with going for "playoff performers" is that it doesn't always work. San Jose tried this with Dominic Moore last season after he had an amazing playoffs the year before (10 goals I think?) and then he was invisible in their post-season. There are just too many intangeables to predict a "playoff performer" and who will thrive in the playoffs or come out of nowhere.
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#47 DownUndaCanuck

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 07:53 AM

DownUndaCanuck: Correlation equals causation!

Jester13: No, correlation doesn't equal causation.

DownUndaCanuck: But it correlates!!


Like I said, it's no coincidence that every Cup-winning team in the past decade or so has had old veterans, 35+, in their lineup. Sure it correlates, but they are directly responsible for their teams success as well.

The veteran presence on a shaky team is instant - they calm the rest of the players down and stop them panicking. This isn't just a generalized assumption either, we've all seen it first hand on this team. Salo's influence on Edler, for example, is the most recent. Edler was steady defensively all of last season playing with Salo, now as soon as that veteran presence is removed he's probably our worst, shakiest, most nervous guy on the blueline.

Up front look at a guy like Trevor Linden in his second last season as a Canuck. The Canucks went to Game 7 agaisnt the Dallas stars in a tough series, Game 7 was pretty much a deadlock 1-1 and none other than the veteran scores the game winner (I believe he scored 2 that game too?). That is the effect a veteran guy has on a team - clutch plays when they matter. Why? Because they've seen it all, they've been through more games and more situations than anyone else so they've learned how to play better in these key situations.

So yes, there is a correlation but there are reasons veterans win cups. Their effect on an entire team is undeniable, anyone can see it, and if you can't then you clearly don't watch enough games to be able to comment on any of this.
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#48 Jester13

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:42 PM

Goaltending and healthy players IMO gives you more of a chance to win the cup than a grey beard.

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#49 Lui's Knob

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 12:45 PM

Dr Mark reechi anyone?

#50 Bananas

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:17 PM

Someone said smyth... I'd like that. Whitney isn't happy in Edmonton. Could probably get him for next to nothing.


The old Whitney is in Dallas. The Whitney in Edmonton is 29, so no-go.

Ryan Smyth would be a good veteran presence, though.
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#51 We Are All Cucks

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 01:46 PM

Smyth would work out. Highly doubt Tambellini would trade him here though: a fan-favourite to an arch-rival.

#52 Teemu Selšnne

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Posted 17 February 2013 - 04:07 PM

Although I don't really believe/agree with this point, there are some veterans that I wouldn't mind seeing the Canucks pick up if possible...

Vinny Prospal.. Ryan Smyth.. Daniel Alfredsson.. Brenden Morrow.. Teemu Selanne/Saku Koivu.. Mike Knuble...

All depends who is where and what is going on on April 3rd.

Adding experience for the sake of making the team is better is good. Adding experience for adding experience and not NECESSARILY making the team better would be foolish and wasteful.




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