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[Article] Canucks hold first closed doors players only meeting, all agree something missing


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#151 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:43 AM

Edmonton had a closed door meeting as well. Came out to a 4-0 lead in the first period against Chicago. Held on to beat them 6-5. ... just saying.


Did Edmonton's meeting last longer than 5 minutes?
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#152 Spoosh

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:52 AM

Lifeless is the word.
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#153 Anubis61

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 10:54 AM

I'm wondering how much of the problem is due to not having consistent forward lines.I would like to see AV keep the lines intact for a few games thus allowing each player to develop a sense of confidence in their linemates and know what each other will do.I thought that Kassian being on the top line with the Sedins was a great move that seemed to payoff.With Kesler out the second line is a problem but with Burr, Booth and HIggins there could be some experimenting there trying burr at centre.The third line with Raymond, Schroeder and Hansen was fast and had some offensive ability.The fourth line of Lapierre, Wiese and Sestito has some size and ability to tie up the opposition.This will probably not solve all the problems the team is experiencing but may help.

Edited by Anubis61, 11 March 2013 - 10:59 AM.

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#154 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:07 AM

I'm wondering how much of the problem is due to not having consistent forward lines. I would like to see AV keep the lines intact for a few games thus allowing each player to develop a sense of confidence in their linemates and know what each other will do. I thought that Kassian being on the top line with the Sedins was a great move that seemed to payoff. With Kesler out the second line is a problem but with Burr, Booth and HIggins there could be some experimenting there trying burr at centre. The third line with Raymond, Schroeder and Hansen was fast and had some offensive ability. The fourth line of Lapierre, Wiese and Sestito has some size and ability to tie up the opposition. This will probably not solve all the problems the team may help.


This team lacks offeneive talent beyond the Sedins. It always has. That has not been addressed. MG needs to cough up some of our better assets (Lu, Edler) to get back a serious offensive talent.

If he doesn't, He needs to force AV to use Kesler (when he returns and assuming he doesn't get injuted again) as the shooter on a line with a true set-up guy - maybe Schroeder or else put him with the twins or split the twins. Unfortunatlye, AV is stubborn on these points and appears unwilling to even try it. He is also expecting more from Edler than he can deliver. Edler is inneffective on the PP because he is too slow, doesn't pass and is mistake prone. Despite how he plays, however, AV continues to use him in those situations instead of using a great skating, puck moving D man like Ballard who could feed a real shooter like Garrison.

The juggling AV has done is inneffective because he is basically moving 3rd and 4th line players into 2nd line roles and hoping they can produce accordingly. They can't!!!

AV"s juggling problem is that he grants absolute immunity to certain "Vets" while expecting the supporting cast to be successful in a variety of roles they are often ill-suited for (SChroeder on 4th line)!

Despite personnel changes over the past 2 years ans a solid core of vets, the team's performance has been spiraling down since the SCF appearance and continues to do so.

An injection of talent is needed but also, a coach that will use that talent appropriately and be able to get through to the veteran core and spark them to be their best. AV is out of ideas and chances.
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#155 TheCammer

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:20 AM

What's missing from the team is common sense. Why does the coach want the powerplay to practice retrieving pucks from shots? They should be practicing entry into the zone and scoring. The team looks tired and lazy so let's make them do pushups to make them even more tired.


Puck retrieval on a power play practice is about getting first shots on net , and if you don't score getting rebounds and keeping possession of the puck in the opponents' end. it is an intensity drill.

Makes all the sense in the world if you know the slightest thing about hockey or coaching.(which clearly you do not) Adding the push-up punishment aspect to the drill sends the message to the players to play the drill with more intensity.

If your claim is that they were too tired for last night's game from having to do a few push-ups during a practice then we are in a lot of trouble.

sawyerfromlost, please go back to your island.
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#156 MJDDawg

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:25 AM

Forget about the first half of the season. The real season begins now and into the playoffs.


True, except that's what everyone was saying at the tail end of last season. And we all know how that worked out.
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#157 InTheCrease

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:31 AM

True, except that's what everyone was saying at the tail end of last season. And we all know how that worked out.


Worked out for the Kings.
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#158 MJDDawg

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:38 AM

Edmonton had a closed door players only meeting as well. Came out to a 4-0 lead in the first period against Chicago. Held on to beat them 6-5. ... just saying.


Apparently the Flyers also had a closed door players meeting yesterday. Granted they were playing the Sabres, but they came out and pounded the Sabres physically (including a couple of questionable hits) and won.

Think about it...the Oil and Flyers come out flying after their meetings yesterday...the Canucks come out after theirs and give up a goal 20 seconds into the game on their way to getting down 3 - 0 early.

And not just any game, but against a division rival with first place on the line. If that alone doesn't get this team motivated, there are deeper problems with this group than we know.

Edit: The fact that the Wild played an overtime game the night before then had to travel back to Minny late while the Canucks hadn't played since Thursday is salt in the wound.

Edited by MJDDawg, 11 March 2013 - 11:50 AM.

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#159 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:39 AM

Apparently the Flyers also had a closed door players meeting yesterday. Granted they were playing the Sabres, but they came out and pounded the Sabres physically (including a couple of questionable hits) and won.

Think about it...the Oil and Flyers come out flying after their meetings yesterday...the Canucks come out after theirs and give up a goal 20 seconds into the game on their way to getting down 3 - 0 early.

And not just any game, but against a division rival with first place on the line. If that alone doesn't get this team motivated, there are deeper problems with this group than we know.


Bold^^ This would appear to be the case.
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#160 Gretzky's Mullet

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:46 AM

I don't think there are any culture problems with the team. However, I agree with Dib that there simply isn't enough scoring talent.

My wish list for this team right now is:
Playmaking winger
Veteran bottom 6 center
Puckmoving defenceman

That's a serious list. Knowing Gillis, he'll decide the team still isn't tough enough and throw a couple of prospects and high draft picks at yet another plug who can't score or make a tape to tape pass to save his life.
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#161 Socrates

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:48 AM

OMG.....what about the other threads saying there is nothing wrong, the Canucks are better than ever, and that they will flip a switch and dominate in the playoffs?????? Wasn't anyone who thought there was anything wrong a bandwagoner?

Does that mean our entire team are bandwagoners?

Bang on. Some folks believe that "Die Hards Stay Positive" no matter what. Luckily, the team they cheer for disagrees.
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#162 Snake Doctor

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:48 AM

Well if the Sedin's can be more emotional on the ice that would help.
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#163 lolwut?

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:55 AM

Well if the Sedin's can be more emotional on the ice that would help.


Though the Sedins are veterans and are looked to to be leaders for our team, I think them picking it up would help the team for sure, however they to me are not the issue. We have too many coasters on our team who are making tons of money with nothing to show for it.
Injuries are a factor, goaltending has been a factor, coaching imo has been a huge factor, and overall a complacency among the players.. put that all together and you have the current state of this hockey club.

Drastic measures need to be looked at.. not just for an immediate fix, but an overall change in mentality and mindset I think would go a long way as there is simply no reason for a team with this amount of talent to be floundering so badly.. no reason at all.. the above mentioned make a difference for sure, but imo the problem is larger than all of those factors..

Edited by lolwut?, 11 March 2013 - 11:56 AM.

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#164 wallstreetamigo

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 11:58 AM

Worked out for the Kings.


So did the coaching change and trading for a bonafide sniper before the deadline.....
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#165 Tearloch7

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

This team lacks offeneive talent beyond the Sedins. It always has. That has not been addressed. MG needs to cough up some of our better assets (Lu, Edler) to get back a serious offensive talent.

If he doesn't, He needs to force AV to use Kesler (when he returns and assuming he doesn't get injuted again) as the shooter on a line with a true set-up guy - maybe Schroeder or else put him with the twins or split the twins. Unfortunatlye, AV is stubborn on these points and appears unwilling to even try it. He is also expecting more from Edler than he can deliver. Edler is inneffective on the PP because he is too slow, doesn't pass and is mistake prone. Despite how he plays, however, AV continues to use him in those situations instead of using a great skating, puck moving D man like Ballard who could feed a real shooter like Garrison.

The juggling AV has done is inneffective because he is basically moving 3rd and 4th line players into 2nd line roles and hoping they can produce accordingly. They can't!!!

AV"s juggling problem is that he grants absolute immunity to certain "Vets" while expecting the supporting cast to be successful in a variety of roles they are often ill-suited for (SChroeder on 4th line)!

Despite personnel changes over the past 2 years ans a solid core of vets, the team's performance has been spiraling down since the SCF appearance and continues to do so.

An injection of talent is needed but also, a coach that will use that talent appropriately and be able to get through to the veteran core and spark them to be their best. AV is out of ideas and chances.


Bang on!! .. hey Dib .. have you ever coached hockey? .. I hear the Canucks may be looking, sooner rather than later, or MG can take AV with him when he gets his walking papers ..
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#166 canidiot

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

just lost respect for av. i have been a supporter in the past. bag skate is bush league. not to mention we are in a shortened season and we were playing a team that had just played back to back. we lost.
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#167 Socrates

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

Worked out for the Kings.

Don't forget, they had the resources to pull big trades.

We are virtually broke (i.e. less than $1M cap), flush with bad contracts and with not many blue chips that we can afford to trade. However, I still think we need to dump what we don't need and start adding the right pieces.
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#168 Tearloch7

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:02 PM

Well if the Sedin's can be more emotional on the ice that would help.


Yep .. nothing like a hissy fit to get the boys all riled up .. :lol:
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#169 khay

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:04 PM

The players should be shooting pucks at Gillis and every time he gets hit with a shot he has to do 150 push ups.
Couldn't give Sami an extra million and let him end his career here and demanded Ehrhoff receive Bieksa's contract terms.
Right,Mikey.


Also Torres... I think we should have kept him for extra million that he wanted, his physicality might have changed the outcome of the series against LA... who knows?

Regardless, letting to go Salo when he is clearly still an effective player and not letting him end his career here was just terrible. Classy organizations don't do that. If MG wants to model Detroit, he should learn how Detroit treats its old players first.
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#170 lolwut?

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:06 PM

Also Torres... I think we should have kept him for extra million that he wanted, his physicality might have changed the outcome of the series against LA... who knows?

Regardless, letting to go Salo when he is clearly still an effective player and not letting him end his career here was just terrible. Classy organizations don't do that. If MG wants to model Detroit, he should learn how Detroit treats its old players first.



Agree.. people can say what they want about Torres, but you can never say the guy didn't bring a level of compete to almost every game.. sure he had his off nights, but what he brought was energy, a physical presence, and made players keep their head on a swivel. We currently have nobody like this right now and letting him go was a mistake imo. He could also chip in with scoring from time to time.. perfect third/fourth line material..
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#171 DIBdaQUIB

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:11 PM

Bang on!! .. hey Dib .. have you ever coached hockey? .. I hear the Canucks may be looking, sooner rather than later, or MG can take AV with him when he gets his walking papers ..


:lol:

Thanks for the support, but as Clint Eastwood said "a man's gotta know his limitations". :)

I did coach a bit, and learned some from my brother who played Major Junior but I'm best suited to armchair coaching like virtually everyone else on here.
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#172 MJDDawg

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:17 PM

just lost respect for av. i have been a supporter in the past. bag skate is bush league. not to mention we are in a shortened season and we were playing a team that had just played back to back. we lost.


If so, this is a sign of desperation from a coach that appears to have run out of ideas.
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#173 Dogbyte

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:22 PM

This team lacks offeneive talent beyond the Sedins. It always has. That has not been addressed. MG needs to cough up some of our better assets (Lu, Edler) to get back a serious offensive talent.

If he doesn't, He needs to force AV to use Kesler (when he returns and assuming he doesn't get injuted again) as the shooter on a line with a true set-up guy - maybe Schroeder or else put him with the twins or split the twins. Unfortunatlye, AV is stubborn on these points and appears unwilling to even try it. He is also expecting more from Edler than he can deliver. Edler is inneffective on the PP because he is too slow, doesn't pass and is mistake prone. Despite how he plays, however, AV continues to use him in those situations instead of using a great skating, puck moving D man like Ballard who could feed a real shooter like Garrison.

The juggling AV has done is inneffective because he is basically moving 3rd and 4th line players into 2nd line roles and hoping they can produce accordingly. They can't!!!

AV"s juggling problem is that he grants absolute immunity to certain "Vets" while expecting the supporting cast to be successful in a variety of roles they are often ill-suited for (SChroeder on 4th line)!

Despite personnel changes over the past 2 years ans a solid core of vets, the team's performance has been spiraling down since the SCF appearance and continues to do so.

An injection of talent is needed but also, a coach that will use that talent appropriately and be able to get through to the veteran core and spark them to be their best. AV is out of ideas and chances.


Pretty much sums it up. We lack top 6 talent.

Edler is slow, can't think on his feet, and can't run a power play.

MG and AV are not on the same page.

If we didn't have the twins we'd be the least creative north south grinding team in the league. As it is we're still close.
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#174 skyfall

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 12:35 PM

Puck retrieval on a power play practice is about getting first shots on net , and if you don't score getting rebounds and keeping possession of the puck in the opponents' end. it is an intensity drill.

Makes all the sense in the world if you know the slightest thing about hockey or coaching.(which clearly you do not) Adding the push-up punishment aspect to the drill sends the message to the players to play the drill with more intensity.

If your claim is that they were too tired for last night's game from having to do a few push-ups during a practice then we are in a lot of trouble.

sawyerfromlost, please go back to your island.


Powerplay really improved last game huh? Their problem was zone entry and set up from what I saw. If the Canucks really need rebounds to be their primary scoring play then they are pretty screwed.
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#175 atillaMYhun

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:05 PM

This team lacks offeneive talent beyond the Sedins. It always has. That has not been addressed. MG needs to cough up some of our better assets (Lu, Edler) to get back a serious offensive talent.

If he doesn't, He needs to force AV to use Kesler (when he returns and assuming he doesn't get injuted again) as the shooter on a line with a true set-up guy - maybe Schroeder or else put him with the twins or split the twins. Unfortunatlye, AV is stubborn on these points and appears unwilling to even try it. He is also expecting more from Edler than he can deliver. Edler is inneffective on the PP because he is too slow, doesn't pass and is mistake prone. Despite how he plays, however, AV continues to use him in those situations instead of using a great skating, puck moving D man like Ballard who could feed a real shooter like Garrison.

The juggling AV has done is inneffective because he is basically moving 3rd and 4th line players into 2nd line roles and hoping they can produce accordingly. They can't!!!

AV"s juggling problem is that he grants absolute immunity to certain "Vets" while expecting the supporting cast to be successful in a variety of roles they are often ill-suited for (SChroeder on 4th line)!

Despite personnel changes over the past 2 years ans a solid core of vets, the team's performance has been spiraling down since the SCF appearance and continues to do so.

An injection of talent is needed but also, a coach that will use that talent appropriately and be able to get through to the veteran core and spark them to be their best. AV is out of ideas and chances.


+++

This is EXACTLY right!

Our forward group is not great. Beyond the Sedins and Kes we have a bunch of interchangeable 3rd and 4th liners. Offense has been productive over the last few years b/c of the offense generated by the D. Seriously, where would you rank the Canucks forward group among contending teams?

The goalie is not the problem. Both Lu and Schneids are good enough for the Canucks to win. The problem with this team is the lack of secondary scoring. In 2011 Kesler had a career year but he is not a 30-40 goal scorer, Burrows is not a 30 goal scorer. Beyond Daniel this team does not have a sniper, a game changer, and this shows up in big games and when the PP underperforms, like right now.

I have never liked AV, but he is doing what he can with the skill level GMMG has given him. Unless some changes are made this team is going nowhere this year or for years to come as the top level forwards (Sedins, Kesler) are all either late in their prime or starting to decline.
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#176 250Integra

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:13 PM

What they're missing is a real coach
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#177 atillaMYhun

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:15 PM

Closed door meeting? Great! Hey, AV when you heard the players were having a closed door meeting didn't you think that maybe starting the leaders of the team (Sedins) the next game to let them go out and show that they meant what was said (more urgency). You know, come out and have a dominating first shift?

Wait, what? AV started the 2nd line with Raymond at centre vs. Minny. Oops, goal in opening 30 seconds. Nice coaching.

Coaches make small differences. It's called game management and it's the dfference between (sorry for football comparasin) Norv Turner and Jim Harbaugh. AV consistently fails at game management. But he won the Jack Adams! twice! lol, you guys who think that are either dummies or 12 yr olds. No offense.
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#178 Canuck Surfer

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

My point was without the ref's clamping down on the clutch and grab;

The Sedin's in particular tend to play effectively but not at Art Ross pace... At 185 lbs, and not boasting top NHL speeds, physical match ups are all the more effective if you get away with a little more...

It's why I have always argued for Kassian to play with them? He can bust match ups for them. Plus it free's Burrows to ignite other lines, like he did late last year when we resumed, gulp, our quest for the PC. Quenneville gets high marks from me for playing a rookie, Saad, on his top line and living with his mistakes because he accomplishes exactly that!

When you're playing terrible hockey you tend to draw less penalties. The league came out with a bang calling everything to inject offense into the game after the lockout to make hockey watchable while teams shook off the rust....less penalties are now being called across the league.

This team needs to learn to provide the effort required to score 5 on 5 and to force other teams to take penalties. This done while playing good hard hockey, with the lead already. Something the Canucks havnt done consistently since 2011


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#179 Burr's bandwagon

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:26 PM

TAke Ehrhoff and Salo away from the 2011 Vancouver Canucks and you have a totally different hockey team.

Thats what the team is looking like right now in 2013. You took away the player that made the Sedins back to back Art Ross winners, followed by a lethal power play, and not really replace him with anyone.



Disagree.
What do you call Garrison and Tanev? I call them upgrades over the always (and currently) injured salo and Ehrhoff who chose to chase the money..
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#180 Burr's bandwagon

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Posted 11 March 2013 - 01:28 PM

Closed door meeting? Great! Hey, AV when you heard the players were having a closed door meeting didn't you think that maybe starting the leaders of the team (Sedins) the next game to let them go out and show that they meant what was said (more urgency). You know, come out and have a dominating first shift?

Wait, what? AV started the 2nd line with Raymond at centre vs. Minny. Oops, goal in opening 30 seconds. Nice coaching.

Coaches make small differences. It's called game management and it's the dfference between (sorry for football comparasin) Norv Turner and Jim Harbaugh. AV consistently fails at game management. But he won the Jack Adams! twice! lol, you guys who think that are either dummies or 12 yr olds. No offense.


he started the sedins the games before and the same thing happened :picard:
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