Kassian RFA year

[Canuck Surfer]

Hodgson is a skill center with no other upside. Surely we can all agree on this by now. He may develop leadership skills but he will never be a selke guru, nor heavyweight champion. Lets just all agree on this.

The idea that Hodgson could help us in a playoff situation against a team like the Kings is to have a suspension of disbelief. There is no way AV (or any other coach) would take Keslers icetime and contributions and throw them out the window to be a shut down guy so Hodgson can fill his shoes. How does anyone even entertain that ?

The guy was playing his rookie year, under very controlled conditions, on the Presidents trophy winning team, all in an effort to be traded. He needed to be in another team without Sedin and Kesler.

So lets just put this notion that Cody Hodgson was going to win us a single playoff game , let alone a series and furthermore the Stanley cup , into the trash bin where it belongs. Being objective means being objective . The guy was simply not equipped at his age and development to help anyone in a prominent playoff role.

So it really comes down to how Kassian and Hodgson pan out. You cant stick the bar up so high for Kassian that he has to become some superstar and carry us to the cup on a silver platter as your threshold for finally having the unabridged gall to admit you might have been wrong about your take on the trade.

The trade started out as a win win for both the Sabres and Canucks given their needs. There is no way we take back a 28 year old guy for a playoff run. We take back a future franchise player for trading a future franchise player.

Since then, Hodgson has stayed the same guy, while there can be no doubt that Kassian has almost caught up to him and in my opinion will roar right by him. In the end I believe we hosed the Sabres who did not have the patience to develop Kassian themselves. Cody was far more NHL ready than Zack was at the time of the trade.

I really no longer care how Hodgson does evaluating the trade. He does look like he's taking a step back. He looked a guy who had the skills to help talent players like Pominville and Vanek thrive. But he does not look good enough to drive play on his own. Funny, he has less help getting top 6 minutes than he had here on the 3rd line. I was a fan and hope he gets some help. And ups his own game.

Too late to second guess; its all about Kass now!

[Canuck Surfer]

You can make sense until you're blue in the face. Surfer simply has a deep gouge that keeps the record skipping and skipping - he's so hung up on how "pretty" Hodgson is, that he sings and sings that sad song of his, forgetting that his lyrics have no bearing to the real world.

Speaking of gouges; how many times in the last year do you believe you have taken the trouble to "point out" flaws in Hodgson?

That is truly one of your most pathetic posts. Like the ridiculous reasoning you came up with to show that you know virtually nothing about Stastny (uh, he only has 8 points in 15 career playoff games....) here you are on the same tangent - as if the Canuck's one playoff victory in 2 years has anything whatsoever to do with Hodgson or Kassian. That is plain derpworthy.

As for your ability to be objective - that is also truly comical. You were one of the most blind Hodgson trade whiners on these boards, with very little concept of where his actual development was. Very few people gushed as embarrassingly over him, in absolute denial/ignorance of the fact that he was an inconsistent rookie with some massive gaps in his game that were sheltered by AV, Higgins and Hansen. The highlight reel noobs in Vancouver went on endlessly about the catastrophe that is was to trade Hodgson. A few years later, the reality - in patently obvious, and btw, the most objective form, statistic - is there for anyone to see. Get back to me when you have the slightest grasp of what are actually the most objective reference points.

What is pathetic is the hurt you allow yourself when people disagree with you.

Derpworthy? Pot calling the kettle black. My posts are logical. I opposed the Kassian trade because traded for a prospect who did not help us maintain our contender status. Now I oppose spending huge bucks on a top line offensive center when we are in a rebuilding phase. And we already have a top line offensive center we just re signed to boot. In a rebuilding / retooling phase is when we should be investing young up and coming prospects on ELC's, not Stastny.

I also don't subscribe to supplanting Kesler as center to make room for Stastny, which was what was proposed.

Sorry.

[oldnews]

Speaking of gouges; how many times in the last year do you believe you have taken the trouble to "point out" flaws in Hodgson?

What is pathetic is the hurt you allow yourself when people disagree with you.

Derpworthy? Pot calling the kettle black. My posts are logical. I opposed the Kassian trade because traded for a prospect who did not help us maintain our contender status. Now I oppose spending huge bucks on a top line offensive center when we are in a rebuilding phase. And we already have a top line offensive center we just re signed to boot. In a rebuilding / retooling phase is when we should be investing young up and coming prospects on ELC's, not Stastny.

I also don't subscribe to supplanting Kesler as center to make room for Stastny, which was what was proposed.

Sorry.

Pointing out the limits of Hodgson's game would not be anywhere near as necessary as it has been were it not the case that these boards have been saturated with crybabies blowing his impact out of proportion ad infinitum. After a few years of reality, it is finally subsiding. That may the be most redundant, repetitive and misinformed gaggle ever to grace these boards. The only competition they have is the Luongo drama queening, which has reached an apex with the implication that Henrik was lying and crapping on Luo when he praised Lack to taking the #1 job.

Baggins former signature captured this CDC phenomenon perfectly as a matter of fact.

You opposed trading youth for youth in the Hodgson dea? Are you pretending to have had a concept of the direction the team needed to redirect itself in? Even in hindsight you can't see.

"We already have an offensive center" says Surfer. Now that is logical. As is the ridiculous suggestion that the team not spend the umpteen million in cap space they've created, but 'invest in ELCs instead'. It's not a simplistic either/or situation Surfer.

As for the proposal, theminister nailed it - while you have lost track of the actual conversation - not surprisingly - and keep repeating the fact that you don't know what you're talking about. Your take on Stastny, frankly, simpleton.

[Batmania]

You two know you're exactly the same just on different sides right?

[Absent Canuck]

1.25 mil/year for 2 years + NTC

I dont believe we can give RFA's the no trade clause. Or at least it cant kick in until they would have reached UFA status.

[Absent Canuck]

I really no longer care how Hodgson does evaluating the trade. He does look like he's taking a step back. He looked a guy who had the skills to help talent players like Pominville and Vanek thrive. But he does not look good enough to drive play on his own. Funny, he has less help getting top 6 minutes than he had here on the 3rd line. I was a fan and hope he gets some help. And ups his own game.

Too late to second guess; its all about Kass now!

Cody was and still is an awesome player, but if he doesnt adjust his game he may not reach his junior potential. We all wish him well. I am just glad we got a premier player back for him .

[Merci]

We need to get him 3 years at 1.9

[oldnews]

You two know you're exactly the same just on different sides right?

[Nino]

You two know you're exactly the same just on different sides right?

[canucklehead44]

Kassian has two less ESP than Kesler in four less games played.

Kassian has two more ESP than Hodgson this season.

This is with 3rd line minutes alongside two players who can't score (Richardson & Booth).

Powerplays can really inflate a player's point totals.

[Baggins]

Ofcourse the timing mattered. No one needed to carry us, we lose games by 1 goal. A couple points changes everything. Doesn't even have to be scored by Coho. Make a different trade.

Kass is fine, maybe he will even be the better of the 2 next season. If it ends up being the 2nd season in a row of missing the playoffs, after 2 with 1 combined win.. does it even matter?

Pahlson was brought in to replace Cody. He scored 1 goal which about matches Cody's regular season goal production per game. But, and it's a big but, Pahlson with the third line took on a decent portion of the shutdown role from Kesler to allow him to take a more offensive role. That never would have happened with Cody on the third line. Would Kesler still have had his 3 points if he had to take on the full shutdown role?

I'll stick with my contention that keeping commander Cody wouldn't have changed the outcome of that series. What we got back for him is something that was seriously lacking on this team. In the long run I'm sure we'll come out ahead on the deal. I'd even say we're already ahead this season.

[Batmania]

Yeah that's great but how about you quite telling people what they say is pathetic when you don't agree with it. Batman has nothing to do with why that makes your arguments invalid.

[oldnews]

Yeah that's great but how about you quite telling people what they say is pathetic when you don't agree with it. Batman has nothing to do with why that makes your arguments invalid.

Apparently you've appointed yourself some kind of mini-mod (perhaps it's part of a Batman complex) - but I will answer your protest here, acknowledging that while this site if full of often tedious arguments, and I'm certainly not above engaging in them - as evidenced in this recent waste of time - posters like Surfer definitely bring out the 'best' in me when they suggest that I'm "kissing Kassian's ass" or exercising "blind faith." My response - calling that kind of 'argument' pathetic - is fair game. If that doesn't meet with your approval, so be it.

[Rush17]

I believe Kassian still has a ton of untapped potential; but he needs to bring his heart soul to every game. This has been a major part of why the organization won't allow him to play top line minutes because he is too inconsistent. There is little doubt about his offensive talent but before he gets those top minutes he has to prove he can play at a similar level to that Buffalo game night in and night out. I must say 4 assists on a line with Richardson and Mathias is pretty beast mode.

I am guessing he will likely receive either a 2-3 year deal around 2M a season. Personally though I think offering him a shorter term deal with an incentive bonus would be best for him. Perhaps 1-2 year @ 1.8M + 2M Incentive for each season with 50+ points

At this point in his career it wouldn't make any sense to offer him a longer term deal given his inconsistencies. That is unless he takes dramatically less in a long term deal something like 2.5M for 5 years. Anything over 2.5M would be a risk for the organization given he has proven he's capable of playing a all around game. I hope he takes a shorter contract and pushes himself to excel so he can earn a better contract.

But who am I to say :D I'm not a professional GM. Just my thoughts. I think these last few games down the stretch will be a great opportunity for Kassian to prove his value. I really hope he can step it up and get a better contract then 2M a yr. But to be honest he doesn't really deserve it until he can prove to us. If he has a strong end to the season he will probably land a 2.5M deal.

[Batmania]

Apparently you've appointed yourself some kind of mini-mod (perhaps it's part of a Batman complex) - but I will answer your protest here, acknowledging that while this site if full of often tedious arguments, and I'm certainly not above engaging in them - as evidenced in this recent waste of time - posters like Surfer definitely bring out the 'best' in me when they suggest that I'm "kissing Kassian's ass" or exercising "blind faith." My response - calling that kind of 'argument' pathetic - is fair game. If that doesn't meet with your approval, so be it.

good christ oldnews take a pill.

The funny thing is I agree with you on most subjects here. But you've appointed yourself the guy who can't be wrong it seems and any question of your opinion is met with this juvenile crap.

I say again; and try to understand it this time, you two guys are pretty much the same. Both of you accusing the other of doing what each of you has done. Hope that doesn't whoosh over this time. You can do or say whatever you want but you should understand the hypocrisy when you do it. If you don't care or agree, so be it. Just giving you an outsider looking in perspective. I personally agree with you. I usually did even before this batmania account when you used to kiss my arse so I would argue on your side.

[oldnews]

Apparently you've appointed yourself some kind of mini-mod (perhaps it's part of a Batman complex) - but I will answer your protest here, acknowledging that while this site if full of often tedious arguments, and I'm certainly not above engaging in them - as evidenced in this recent waste of time - posters like Surfer definitely bring out the 'best' in me when they suggest that I'm "kissing Kassian's ass" or exercising "blind faith." My response - calling that kind of 'argument' pathetic - is fair game. If that doesn't meet with your approval, so be it.

good christ oldnews take a pill.

The funny thing is I agree with you on most subjects here. But you've appointed yourself the guy who can't be wrong it seems and any question of your opinion is met with this juvenile crap.

I say again; and try to understand it this time, you two guys are pretty much the same. Both of you accusing the other of doing what each of you has done. Hope that doesn't whoosh over this time. You can do or say whatever you want but you should understand the hypocrisy when you do it. If you don't care or agree, so be it. Just giving you an outsider looking in perspective. I personally agree with you. I usually did even before this batmania account.

That was me taking a pill batmania. Perhaps I need to up the prescription.

As for the 'can't be wrong' thing - that's not the case - I don't have a problem admitting when I'm wrong - and have many times on these boards actually. In the case of the misinformation Surfer and Nino are offering in this thread however - not going to happen.

[Batmania]

That was me taking a pill batmania. Perhaps I need to up the prescription. : :D

Ba dump bump

as for the edit: That's fine and I agree but that doesn't really change anything does it. One in particular I find maddening at times but in general a good argument takes care of that much better than a mediocre one coupled with an insult.

[alt kilgore]

Pahlson was brought in to replace Cody. He scored 1 goal which about matches Cody's regular season goal production per game. But, and it's a big but, Pahlson with the third line took on a decent portion of the shutdown role from Kesler to allow him to take a more offensive role. That never would have happened with Cody on the third line. Would Kesler still have had his 3 points if he had to take on the full shutdown role?

I'll stick with my contention that keeping commander Cody wouldn't have changed the outcome of that series. What we got back for him is something that was seriously lacking on this team. In the long run I'm sure we'll come out ahead on the deal. I'd even say we're already ahead this season.

Your contention about Cody NOT making a difference in those games where we were in all five of them (against LA) right to the end is just as ignorant as guaranteeing he would have made a difference.

And yes getting Kassian may pay out in "the long run". My beef with that trade is that it came while most of our core was still in its prime, one year removed from a SCF.....and we needed scoring. And we traded one of our top scorers for a project.

And your statement earlier that the trade just wouldn't have happened in the off-season is another of your "contentions". Buffalo still would have needed a center, and Gillis still would be getting nagging calls from Cody's dad and agent, and Kassian still would have been rotting in the juniors. But even if it wasn't Kassian we got back for Cody, maybe a young stud D prospect from another team....it doesn't change the fact that we needed a few more goals that series. Another problem was that AV refused to even consider, or was scared to, play Kesler on the wing for the time being on the second line making room for Cory, at least until our run was over. OR..what is wrong with a third line with Cody as center? Every third line in the league doesn't have to be a cookie cutter pure "shut down" line. And whether Cody was happy or not (and all ive ever heard is rumour about him not being happy) not playing in the top 6, what choice would he have had? Do you think he'd have withheld his services, just heading into the playoffs with a projected SCF team?....and being a rookie making these demands? I have no reason not to believe he was stoked about the upcoming playoffs with the Canucks, and would have played on any line, on any position AV told him to, as long as he got a shot at the dance.

[Absent Canuck]

Pahlson was brought in to replace Cody. He scored 1 goal which about matches Cody's regular season goal production per game. But, and it's a big but, Pahlson with the third line took on a decent portion of the shutdown role from Kesler to allow him to take a more offensive role. That never would have happened with Cody on the third line. Would Kesler still have had his 3 points if he had to take on the full shutdown role?

I'll stick with my contention that keeping commander Cody wouldn't have changed the outcome of that series. What we got back for him is something that was seriously lacking on this team. In the long run I'm sure we'll come out ahead on the deal. I'd even say we're already ahead this season.

It boggles my mind that anyone thinks otherwise. You have to be such a super Hodgson homer to honestly believe an NHL coach would take Keslers time and place away so Cody can get what he wants..........and get immediately pasted into the ice by first and second line defensive pairs.

Hodgson was 22 years old an nowhere near ready to carry a second line by himself let alone be effective at it , let alone be effective in the playoffs at it. In fact, the guy still cant carry a line himself in Buffalo at age 24.

[oldnews]

Your contention about Cody NOT making a difference in those games where we were in all five of them (against LA) right to the end is just as ignorant as guaranteeing he would have made a difference.

And yes getting Kassian may pay out in "the long run". My beef with that trade is that it came while most of our core was still in its prime, one year removed from a SCF.....and we needed scoring. And we traded one of our top scorers for a project.

And your statement earlier that the trade just wouldn't have happened in the off-season is another of your "contentions". Buffalo still would have needed a center, and Gillis still would be getting nagging calls from Cody's dad and agent, and Kassian still would have been rotting in the juniors. But even if it wasn't Kassian we got back for Cody, maybe a young stud D prospect from another team....it doesn't change the fact that we needed a few more goals that series. Another problem was that AV refused to even consider, or was scared to, play Kesler on the wing for the time being on the second line making room for Cory, at least until our run was over. OR..what is wrong with a third line with Cody as center? Every third line in the league doesn't have to be a cookie cutter pure "shut down" line. And whether Cody was happy or not (and all ive ever heard is rumour about him not being happy) not playing in the top 6, what choice would he have had? Do you think he'd have withheld his services, just heading into the playoffs with a projected SCF team?....and being a rookie making these demands? I have no reason not to believe he was stoked about the upcoming playoffs with the Canucks, and would have played on any line, on any position AV told him to, as long as he got a shot at the dance.

I think there are some fair points there Kilgore, but there is also the matter of what kind of team player (or at least "camp") they are dealing with when the conditions you name - a contender, heading towards the playoffs, needing scoring....and yet it is plastered all over the public realm in Vancouver that a trade demand might be imminent, and that someone wasn't happy about Hodgson's mnutes. The only real ambiguity there was who that someone was - whether Hodgson himself or a member of his camp/agent. What was the source of all the smoke? Tony Gallagher. But in the end, it was smoke that Hodgson's agent Winters admitted was the result of conversations he had with Gallagher. So we aren't really left to wonder entirely regarding what took place there.

There is also the matter that Hodgson's production had tailed off in the month before the deal - and despite significant additional minutes with stars in Buffalo, it continued to tail off to end the season. Not uncommon for a young man experiencing their first long and gruelling NHL season, to not necessarily be able to sustain for 82 games, let alone the heightened demands of a potential playoff run. I don't think it's ignorant at all to think that Pahlsson could provide as much or more push (albeit in a different form) down the stretch than Hodgson could. In the end I'm not sure it matters much when Daniel is concussed and Kesler hobbling.

Another consideration could also have been the cap reality of the team - whereas Hodgson re-signed for 4.25 million, Kassian remained an ELC until the end of this season - something would have had to give regardless where Hodgson was concerned - and that extra cap space and time served the Canucks well in the interim.