No Place But Up

[Junkyard Dog]

Considering we are the 6th worst team we can actually fall further next season if we don't perform well and/or get unlucky with injuries.

That means there is a place other than up , which is down.

[Industrious1]

Personally, I think things are going to get a whole lot worse before they get better.

[Dogbyte]

No more so than any other top offensive players in the league. And they were just as "figured out" in 09/10 after Hank won the scoring title and yet Daniel went on to win it the following year despite coaches and players scouting/planning for them.

Ask yourself why that was.

Yeah, your other reasons were more of a justification and better reasons but as you've indicated I also think there is a bit of a book on them out there.

During after hours once Drew Doughty made some interesting comments about how people have figured out you no longer need to chase them around if you get caught out of the play and miss a pass don't worry about it because they're just going to cycle it again and you can just get in the lane on the next cycle and steal the puck.

[Dogbyte]

Kassian, Tanev, Jensen, and Corrado. Those guys are basically locks to be on the team. There's change! Not to mention Horvat or Gaunce or perhaps our 6th overall pick could be competing for a spot on the team!

2 of those guys you mentioned played on the team all year ????

Sedin

Sedin

Burrows

Higgins

Kesler

Hansen

Mattias

Sestito

Richardson

Kassian

Booth

Jensen

1 forward spot remaining not including Santorelli

Edler

Hamhuis

Bieksa

Garrison

Stanton

Corrado

Tanev

1 spot remaining

so change will be adding one forward to the group and one defender?

- how to you call that change, like it will be 2014-2015 instead of 2013-2014?

[aGENT]

Yeah, your other reasons were more of a justification and better reasons but as you've indicated I also think there is a bit of a book on them out there.

During after hours once Drew Doughty made some interesting comments about how people have figured out you no longer need to chase them around if you get caught out of the play and miss a pass becasue they're just going to cycle it again and you can just get in the lane on the next cycle and steal the puck.

And you don`t think players and coaches knew that in 10/11? Come on DB....

The biggest reasons for any perceived "decline" is how the game is now being called and the creeping receding supportive depth (or a PMD) of the past couple years (strangely coinciding with their "decline"...funny that).

All the other small stuff (their aging, the league scouting and playing them better etc) are tiny issues compared to those other two things.

[aGENT]

2 of those guys you mentioned played on the team all year ????

Sedin

Sedin

Burrows

Higgins

Kesler

Hansen

Mattias

Sestito

Richardson

Kassian

Booth

Jensen

1 forward spot remaining not including Santorelli

Edler

Hamhuis

Bieksa

Garrison

Stanton

Corrado

2 spots remaining without signing Tanev

so change will be adding one forward to the group and one defender?

- how to you call that change, like it will be 2014-2015 instead of 2013-2014?

Booth will be bought out/traded, Hansen IMO traded and Sestito 13th forward. Look at that! *poof* Space!

[FlyLow_]

I admire your optimism. You listed a list of reasons for the team's struggles. I'd have to disagree with some of your reasons.

In my opinion the real reasons for the struggles were coming for a few years in the form of mismanagement of assets in addition to hiring a coach who's style is best suited to a different type of roster. Playing the top guys too many minutes wasn't a problem of depth. Although the depth was a bit spotty. It was a sign of a coach who didn't trust the depth he was given.

I really can't see the Sedins, Burrows, Hamhuis, Edler (well maybe Edler) being as bad as they were this year. Just too much pride there to mail it in. Though father time may have something to say about how much they bounce back.

The goal is not the playoffs. It's the cup. For this team the road to the cup goes through California. The way the team is they can't beat either of the 3 California teams in a 7 game series.

The core does need changing.

The coach rode the top players because the team depth was piss poor, not a bit spotty. Yes Torts has always given his top guys more minutes, but he will use the bottom 6 if he trusts them. Nobody in their right mind would trust the bottom 6 last year.

[Dogbyte]

And you don`t think players and coaches knew that in 10/11? Come on DB....

The biggest reasons for any perceived "decline" is how the game is now being called and the creeping receding supportive depth (or a PMD) of the past couple years (strangely coinciding with their "decline"...funny that).

All the other small stuff (their aging, the league scouting and playing them better etc) are tiny issues compared to those other two things.

I know you just said that it was a complete non factor. I think it's just natural that the more time you spend in the game the more other players figure out your tendencies .... and I agree with Hansen, and Booth but just pointing it out for the OP. I think you and I both agree that those changes need to happen in order to facilitate change.

[aGENT]

I know you just said that it was a complete non factor. I think it's just natural that the more time you spend in the game the more other players figure out your tendencies ....

But that's the case for any top players in the league. The better you are the more closely your play is scouted and managed by the opposition. Hence, as that's equal for all premiere NHL players it IS a non factor.

[Jiggs50]

2 of those guys you mentioned played on the team all year ????

Sedin

Sedin

Burrows

Higgins

Kesler

Hansen

Mattias

Sestito

Richardson

Kassian

Booth

Jensen

1 forward spot remaining not including Santorelli

Edler

Hamhuis

Bieksa

Garrison

Stanton

Corrado

Tanev

1 spot remaining

so change will be adding one forward to the group and one defender?

- how to you call that change, like it will be 2014-2015 instead of 2013-2014?

Booth will be traded (cap going up) or bought out. Sestito is a 13th forward. Hansen is movable till July 1st I believe. There's 3 spots! Stanton is a 6th-7th defenceman. There is more than enough room for rookies and young players..

[Me_]

I admire your optimism. You listed a list of reasons for the team's struggles. I'd have to disagree with some of your reasons.

In my opinion the real reasons for the struggles were coming for a few years in the form of mismanagement of assets in addition to hiring a coach who's style is best suited to a different type of roster. Playing the top guys too many minutes wasn't a problem of depth. Although the depth was a bit spotty. It was a sign of a coach who didn't trust the depth he was given.

I really can't see the Sedins, Burrows, Hamhuis, Edler (well maybe Edler) being as bad as they were this year. Just too much pride there to mail it in. Though father time may have something to say about how much they bounce back.

The goal is not the playoffs. It's the cup. For this team the road to the cup goes through California. The way the team is they can't beat either of the 3 California teams in a 7 game series.

The core does need changing.

Exactly what is happening. That's why I don't "blame" Tortorella solely. Torts' mismanagement would have been much less evident had the Alignment continued as previous years.

The realignment of the League is a big reason why the Canucks had such a hard time. I would put Phoenix in the too for the simple dirt the Canucks suffered in one game where Santorelli, Booth and Henrik all got speared; Santorelli never came back, while Henrik missed the Olympics.

The West just got a lot tougher and the Canucks aren't built for it.

However, a full rebuild is not necessary. The Canucks are a couple of core trades away from competing with the best again.

1D, 1C

[Me_]

Booth will be traded (cap going up) or bought out. Sestito is a 13th forward. Hansen is movable till July 1st I believe. There's 3 spots! Stanton is a 6th-7th defenceman. There is more than enough room for rookies and young players..

How Hansen got an NTC is beyond me. Sestito can be managed into a serviceable 4th liner, Sranton is still young and would never have cracked the top four in Chicago. In Vancouver however, he's been waiver steal. Booth is better served playing top nine minutes and work out the kinks out of his game and be reassessed at the end of the season; one great season from Booth and both he and the Canucks could greatly benefit.

Nonetheless, to me, the core of this team ought to be:

D. SEDIN - H. SEDIN - KASSIAN

HAMHUIS - BIEKSA

LACK

The rest of the organization ought to go through serious scrutiny.

[Dogbyte]

Booth will be traded (cap going up) or bought out. Sestito is a 13th forward. Hansen is movable till July 1st I believe. There's 3 spots! Stanton is a 6th-7th defenceman. There is more than enough room for rookies and young players..

I agree with both you and J.R. but as we know on the Canucks it's a matter of actually seeing those things take place. Hopefully Trev has it under control. It wouldn't be the first time obvious moves that need to be made haven't.

I am fully waiting to see what happens though and I have faith.

[bluesman60]

The Canucks were in the thick of the race almost till the end. Injuries, down years, depth and bad luck eventually cost us the playoffs. Missing the playoffs was probably the best thing that could of happened. Don't tell me this team is too washed up, old, or the core needs to be changed etc etc...those are lame excuses!

It was just a terrible and forgettable season.

Like I pointed out this a down year more a lot of guys on this team. Most notably the Sedins, Edler, and Burrows. Bieksa and Hansen could be added to that list aswell. Anyway my point is that all of those guys are bound to bounce back. No way do those guys have such bad seasons again. Not to mention that even with those guys having off years we almost made the playoffs.

With young guys like Kassian, Tanev, Jensen, and Corrado basically on the roster, the future isn't as bleak as most point out. The playoffs next year are a realistic opportunity. And to all those asking/demanding for a complete rebuild, IT IS NOT HAPPENING.

I would be fine with Ehlers, Ritchie or Virtanen btw.

Or possibly this core isn't built to handle the rigors of going to Game 7 and having enough left in the tank to dig down and pull the rabbit out of the hat? Make no mistake, this group has taken a physical beating from the bigger teams like Boston, Anahiem, LA and SJ...so much so that they have never quite fully recovered. With all the travel plus the physical beating that these guys take, you need a group of ironmen to outlast everyone else. That is why drafting big gritty skilled players is better than drafting smaller skilled players that look like a ping pong ball bouncing off the wall or the ice.

[aGENT]

I agree with both you and J.R. but as we know on the Canucks it's a matter of actually seeing those things take place. Hopefully Trev has it under control. It wouldn't be the first time obvious moves that need to be made haven't.

I am fully waiting to see what happens though and I have faith.

Just because we'd like (or management would like for that matter) something to happen, doesn't mean it always can/will.

CDC seems to forget that GM's can't just waive a magic wand and move players for fair return at the snap of a finger. You need to find willing and able trade partners and get something usable back.

I think Hansen moving on is in the best interest of the club but if it doesn't happen for whatever reason I'm not going to crucify management for the lack of a move. Excrement happens.

[Dogbyte]

Just because we'd like (or management would like for that matter) something to happen, doesn't mean it always can/will.

CDC seems to forget that GM's can't just waive a magic wand and move players for fair return at the snap of a finger. You need to find willing and able trade partners and get something usable back.

I think Hansen moving on is in the best interest of the club but if it doesn't happen for whatever reason I'm not going to crucify management for the lack of a move. Excrement happens.

Agreed, that's why I say watch and see. We could very well have essentially the exact same team as we are very inflexible.

Also with regards to the other issue the reason it isn't exactly equal between all stars is becasue the twins play together all the time and rely on each other. Their game is pretty obvious at this point. It's not a be all end situation by all means but they're getting pretty easy to figure out.

[aGENT]

Agreed, that's why I say watch and see. We could very well have essentially the exact same team as we are very inflexible.

Also with regards to the other issue the reason it isn't exactly equal between all stars is becasue the twins play together all the time and rely on each other. Their game is pretty obvious at this point. It's not a be all end situation by all means but they're getting pretty easy to figure out.

I disagree. If we could somehow magically get She Weber (or at the very least a legit PMD), a legit 2nd line LW, Kassian continues where he left off this season and guarantee that say Horvat would excel in a third line role next year...I'd bet you a pint that the Sedins would have stellar years next year.

Not the 100-110 points at their peak years mind you (due to the way the game is called and some aging) but 90+ wouldn't be out of the question IMO. Despite being "easily figured out".

[Canuck v2.0]

Love your optimism but the thing is almost ALL our core is 30 or older, we have the 27th ranked prospect pool in the league (according to Hockeysfuture Spring rankings) We have maybe 4 or 5 young guys that could potentially raise there game and for some make the team Kassian, Tanev, Corrado, Horvat, Jensen but of those players most of them will probably only get limited rolls:

Kassian - looked great in the last 10 games of the season but through most of the year disappeared for long stretches, Could get top 6 roll but i wouldn't count on it.

Tanev - Great year will be a top 4 defenceman with potential top 2 minutes depending on how the Edler situation goes down (if hes traded, or if hes able to regain his form) the latter would mean top 4 minutes would be more realistic.

Corrado - Developed well in Utica, could earn a top 6 roll for next year or be used in place of injuries again, but doubt he gets anymore then top 6 minutes if he does make the big club

Horvat - If he does make the team he will most likely be slotted into bottom 6 minutes, could work his way up but realistically would need to become more offensive type player to earn top 6 time right away (not saying he won't eventually but for a 1st year bottom 6 seems more realistic)

Jensen - Outstanding when he was first called up, helped Henrik and Burrows get going for a while, but then faded in the last couple of games. I think he could earn a top 6 roll but no guarantees.

Oh and whoever we draft 6th overall, personally i'd say if its not one of Ekblad, the Sams or Draisatl which it most likely won't be id give them 1 more year to develop, so i just don't think it's realistic to have a "Anaheim like turn around" there core was much younger and their prospect pool was much deeper. But look at it this way 2015 ain't exactly a bad year to tank

[aGENT]

we have the 27th ranked prospect pool in the league (according to Hockeysfuture Spring rankings)

[Dogbyte]

I disagree. If we could somehow magically get She Weber (or at the very least a legit PMD), a legit 2nd line LW, Kassian continues where he left off this season and guarantee that say Horvat would excel in a third line role next year...I'd bet you a pint that the Sedins would have stellar years next year.

Not the 100-110 points at their peak years mind you (due to the way the game is called and some aging) but 90+ wouldn't be out of the question IMO. Despite being "easily figured out".

Sorry J.R. I think you're misreading me. I appreciate you defending them but I am in no way saying that the Sedins are bad, or can't have a great year. I'm just saying people are starting to understand what they do. Just something to keep in mind.

Shouldn't have brought it up though. They're perfect.