Van_City123 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 I think were lacking in Defencemen depth for our prospect pool. Although does anybody else think Tommernes will be a quality d man for our team in the coming years? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PrisonFugitive Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Defense and future #1 C. Don't have any projected 1st line players except for Virtanen who is very boom/bust. Would like a few top 4 + projected d prospects and an elite center prospect, hopefully when the Canucks tank during this draft and get a top 5 pick, though Hanifin would be a nice grab! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Actually, how many 1st line centers were actually "developed"? I honestly can't come up with to many.....most true #1's come directly out of junior slated as #1 centers.......yes they may play a year in the AHL...but it was not for developement But other than maybe Crosby, none of them were the players they are today. Even if they started in the NHL they still had to develop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigbadcanucks Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 Prospect Pool looks like the following: Center: Gaunce, Horvat, McCann, Cassels, Beattie, Labate, Pettit (Lain, O'Reilly, Jeffrey, Friesen are likely to be year-by-year players and are unlikely to be part of any long term plans for the Canucks) RW: Jensen, Virtanen, Grenier LW: Zalewski, Fox, Shinkaruk, Kenins (Archibald, DeFazio, Blomstrand and Mallet are likely to be year-by-year players and are unlikely to be part of any long term plans for the Canucks) D: Corrado, Tryamkin, Subban, Cederholm, Hutton, McNally, Liberati, Forsling, Stewart, Williamson (Anderson, Tommernes, Sanguinetti, McEneny, Blain, and Biega are likely to be year-by-year players and are unlikely to be part of any long term plans for the Canucks) G: Markstrom, Eriksson, Corrado, Demko So, by the looks of what we have, the glaring hole is a center with elite playmaking/offensive potential. The only knock I have against McCann, Cassels, Fox and Shinkaruk is that they may be undersized for the NHL. IMO, MG left us with some decent depth on the blue line (primarily skilled, puck moving d-men in Subban, Hutton and McNally) and on the forward positions, which JB did a nice job of adding to this past June. Maybe we can try to pry Khokhlachev from Boston? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JeremyCuddles Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 We needed Mckeown. I like Vey but our defence prospects are lucky to be top 6 one day. Hopefully Benning gets us a offensive minded d-man next draft. Or through a trade. Subban's size has me uneasy. Has he grown since he was drafted. He was 5'9 or something last I heard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 But other than maybe Crosby, none of them were the players they are today. Even if they started in the NHL they still had to develop. Well I will agree with you on the Crosby issue, but, lets say matured instead of developed, in most players considered #1 type players. The thing is that as a 17 year old player is drafted and then ages(Matures) even before his entrance into the NHL, Nhl stars are retiring, by the time he has been in the league for 2 or 3 years and gaining strength and confidence, other stars are leaving the NHL. This moves him up the depth chart of #1's. Eventually, he is the one retiring, but in the middle he is the star. I don't nessesarily think he is developing anymore from a skill perspective. Maybe a little? I am not hung up on whether it is developing or maturing too much...... The main point I was trying to make was that in most cases you don't put a 20 year old, fresh out of junior, that is slated to be a #2 center and put him into the AHL and think in 2 years he will come out a #1 center.......In most cases that does not happen......all he will be is a mature 2nd liner (More developed), but still not a #1 center with elite skill.....just won't happen! That brings me to my suggestion that "IF" we want that, we will have to either wait for either a very poor season or luck, unless you are going to go after a young already semi matured #1 To me, those are the only way..........poor season, luck or go trade for one(Over pay) Ouch! I am open to other ways, if any one has a better way! Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 That brings me to my suggestion that "IF" we want that, we will have to either wait for either a very poor season or luck, unless you are going to go after a young already semi matured #1 "Luck" can easily be good scouting. Although tanking makes sense theoretically, it isn't the most practical way of doing things (especially when you consider the business end of it from a Canadian market). Getzlaf-19th Overall Kesler-23rd Overall Bergeron-45th Overall Krejci-63rd Overall Staal-2nd Overall Toews-3rd Overall Richards-64th Overall Mackinnon-1st Overall Duchene-3rd Overall O'Reilly-33rd Overall Johanensen-4th Overall Seguin-2nd Overall Spezza-2nd Overall Datsyuk-171st Overall Kopitar-11th Overall Carter-11th Overall Koivu-6th Overall Desharnais-Undrafted Tavares-1st Overall Stepan-51st Overall Giroux-22nd Overall Crosby-1st Overall Malkin-2nd Overall Thornton-1st Overall Couture-9th Overall Pavelski-205th Overall Backes-62nd Overall Stastny-44th Overall Stamkos-1st Overall Sedin-3rd Overall Backstrom-4th Overall Bolded players were drafted after the top 10 That took awhile... Anyways, only about half of the top centers were drafted in the top 10. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.53 Posted July 29, 2014 Share Posted July 29, 2014 We're actually pretty solid everywhere, except we have no stand out sure top liners. Offence or defense. We have a number of guys that can be 2nd liners, and a number of guys that can be third liners, and on defense it's the same thing: Top 4 and top 6 guys. Other than that, we are very deep. The thing is, chances are, some of our guys will overachieve, some of our guys will underachieve. It's not crazy to believe that with all of Horvat, McCann, Cassels, Fox, Gaunce, and Vey at center, one of them will overachieve and become a first line talent, and one of them will underachieve and be a 4th liner, maybe even AHLer. The same could be said for our defense, and wings. Oh and we're set on goalies, but that's obvious. (Still though, my dream would be to somehow snag Matthew Barzal out of next years draft if we crumble again. Hell if not, I would do a trade for him. He could definitely be a number 1c one day. 59GP, 14G, 40A, 54P, in his first year in the WHL. Maybe he can be the replacement to Henrik Sedin since we couldn't get Reinhart. Plus, who doesn't love a local boy.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rex425 Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Our defense, and perhaps a future 1st line center. Shinkaruk-_______ -Virtanen Jensen-Horvat-Kassian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustABandwagoner Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Our defense, and perhaps a future 1st line center. Shinkaruk-_______ -Virtanen Jensen-Horvat-Kassian There MIGHT be a chance Mccaan can be a 1st line center. MAYBE Shinkaruk future elite scorer :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 "Luck" can easily be good scouting. Although tanking makes sense theoretically, it isn't the most practical way of doing things (especially when you consider the business end of it from a Canadian market). Getzlaf-19th Overall Kesler-23rd Overall Bergeron-45th Overall Krejci-63rd Overall Staal-2nd Overall Toews-3rd Overall Richards-64th Overall Mackinnon-1st Overall Duchene-3rd Overall O'Reilly-33rd Overall Johanensen-4th Overall Seguin-2nd Overall Spezza-2nd Overall Datsyuk-171st Overall Kopitar-11th Overall Carter-11th Overall Koivu-6th Overall Desharnais-Undrafted Tavares-1st Overall Stepan-51st Overall Giroux-22nd Overall Crosby-1st Overall Malkin-2nd Overall Thornton-1st Overall Couture-9th Overall Pavelski-205th Overall Backes-62nd Overall Stastny-44th Overall Stamkos-1st Overall Sedin-3rd Overall Backstrom-4th Overall Bolded players were drafted after the top 10 That took awhile... Anyways, only about half of the top centers were drafted in the top 10. Wow, that is a great post, and I get your arguement, and I accept it, in its thoughness. The other side of that of course is that there are 31 Centers that you have listed, but to put it in a different perspective, since 1999 there has been 450 first round picks and of that you say 18 of your list were first rounders, and of that 14 were top 5 picks. So if we are not tanking, we had a chance of 4 centers out of the other 426 first round picks. You are right in the fact that another 13 first line centers out of an approx. 2nd round to 7th round per year = 180 picks a year Times that by 15 year since 1999 and you get 2700 picks Honestly, you don't call that luck, when you only get another 13 out of all those picks? Talking only first line centers here, that is slim pickings and yes better scouting does produce better results, but....... I think luck has a much better result than anything else. I don't know maybe I am missing something????? Good post though! Cheers!. Hey rough numbers, because I counted on my toes and fingers.... and quickly!.....What a day Heh! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted July 30, 2014 Share Posted July 30, 2014 Reading my own post back to myself, this is why I advocate trading for a young first line center or tanking....of which I am honestly really not a fan of, unless you are very close to the bottom............but even then................ And I guess this is why trading for a young #1 center is so expensive! Also why NYI turns down my offer of Horvat, 2015-1st, Lack and what ever... for Strome Why Florida turns down my offer for Barkov etc, etc, etc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
J.I.A.H.N Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 Hey CDC am I right on this or wrong? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LostViking Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 What we need is to develop our prospects to their full potential, but its fun to think about this sort of stuff so here goes: I imagine we'll have some holes in our goaltending depth by the time Miller is gone. There isn't any room or opportunity for Markstrom, Ericsson, or Cannata, I imagine they'll either leave or never develop. Demko will be along around that time and can backup Lack or be the starter in Utica, but we'll probably want to have another couple guys in the system in case Lack or Demko doesn't work out. Another guy like Demko would be fantastic to add in the next couple drafts. On the blueline we have a few guys who are young enough they could still be around as vets by the time our prospects hit their prime. Edler, Sbisa, Tanev, Stanton, Weber could all provide leadership/support but would also all be past their prime. Not sure who will end up sticking around that long, but we can conceivably pick the guys we want and should be able to retain them. If we want to hope one of these guys will still be a top 4 into their mid-30s and that we could sign a decent UFA top 4 (like we did with Hamhuis), we would need two more top 4 guys. I think the prospects we have now can cover our depth, and I personally have a hard time reading Corrado's future. It would be great to have a future Norris level prospect, but that is not a hole, every team wants that and only a lucky few will get it. Up front we also have some young guys who could be retained as vets for when our prospects hit their prime. Kassian, Bonino, Vey, Matthias, Sestito would make a pretty good support group. I think we could mix a few of these guys with a UFA and a few prospects to make a very strong bottom six. Assuming at least one of these guys could still be a capable top 6, and that we are able to add a UFA top 6, we could conceivably fill the other spots with Jensen, McCann, Horvat, Shinkaruk. Like on D, having a stud prospect who will be a franchise player would be nice, but that is not a hole, more like asking for the moon. I won't break things down by LW, C, RW, since forwards shift position very fluidly and it is impossible to tell which positions our current prospects will be playing. To summarize, another top goaltending prospect and a couple top defense prospects would be ideal, we seem to be fairly set at forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheSnipeshow91 Posted July 31, 2014 Share Posted July 31, 2014 "Luck" can easily be good scouting. Although tanking makes sense theoretically, it isn't the most practical way of doing things (especially when you consider the business end of it from a Canadian market). Getzlaf-19th OverallKesler-23rd OverallBergeron-45th OverallKrejci-63rd Overall Staal-2nd Overall Toews-3rd OverallRichards-64th Overall Mackinnon-1st Overall Duchene-3rd OverallO'Reilly-33rd Overall Johanensen-4th Overall Seguin-2nd Overall Spezza-2nd OverallDatsyuk-171st OverallKopitar-11th OverallCarter-11th Overall Koivu-6th OverallDesharnais-Undrafted Tavares-1st OverallStepan-51st OverallGiroux-22nd Overall Crosby-1st Overall Malkin-2nd Overall Thornton-1st Overall Couture-9th OverallPavelski-205th OverallBackes-62nd OverallStastny-44th Overall Stamkos-1st Overall Sedin-3rd Overall Backstrom-4th OverallBolded players were drafted after the top 10 That took awhile... Anyways, only about half of the top centers were drafted in the top 10. I only see 5 first line center's drafted out of the top 10 Datsyuk Giroux Kopitar Getzlaf and Bergeron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soviets Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I believe the most pressing matter in our prospect pool is wing depth in terms of quality and quantity and would like to see that addressed at the next draft, by trade (not one of a blockbuster variety), or converting a center prospect to the wing (although a prospect that has gone through junior playing wing is more preferable IMO). Jensen and Grenier seem to be the only prospects of note on the right wing while on the left wing shinkaruk and virtanen have a fair risk of being bust picks depending on how the adapt their game in the pros. Possible solutions: 1) a swap of prospects with another team. A swap like Brendan Gaunce+ late round pick for Adam Lowry of the winnipeg jets could help balance the prospect pool 2) Targeting areas of need at the draft instead of BPA: I thought mike gillis did this a lot in his time as GM especially in the early rounds and while it is too early to tell if this was a smart tactic or not. In next years draft there will be some quality winger options in the early rounds like daniel sprong, pavel zacha, and jordan greenway that could provide some decent quality in the coming years. These two options are the most ideal as they don't require the canucks to give up too much and could pan out very well. The areas at defence and center seem to have enough quality and quantity to last at least another year or two while it would be nice to have a top tier defensive prospect in the mix those are hard to come by. Also adding another quality goaltending prospect would also be ideal just to have the depth behind demko Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Piggy Bank Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Who of: Toews, Sharp, Hossa, Kane, Kopitar, Gaborik, Brown, Carter, Bergeron, Marchand, Krejci, and Lucic would you consider elite? You don't need someone elite at all three forward positions. Actually, Sharp, Carter, and Bergeron all do that for their respective Stanely Cup Winning teams. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dal Colle Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 I don't think there's any holes personally Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pimp C Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Prospect Pool looks like the following: Center: Gaunce, Horvat, McCann, Cassels, Beattie, Labate, Pettit (Lain, O'Reilly, Jeffrey, Friesen are likely to be year-by-year players and are unlikely to be part of any long term plans for the Canucks) RW: Jensen, Virtanen, Grenier LW: Zalewski, Fox, Shinkaruk, Kenins (Archibald, DeFazio, Blomstrand and Mallet are likely to be year-by-year players and are unlikely to be part of any long term plans for the Canucks) D: Corrado, Tryamkin, Subban, Cederholm, Hutton, McNally, Liberati, Forsling, Stewart, Williamson (Anderson, Tommernes, Sanguinetti, McEneny, Blain, and Biega are likely to be year-by-year players and are unlikely to be part of any long term plans for the Canucks) G: Markstrom, Eriksson, Corrado, Demko So, by the looks of what we have, the glaring hole is a center with elite playmaking/offensive potential. The only knock I have against McCann, Cassels, Fox and Shinkaruk is that they may be undersized for the NHL. IMO, MG left us with some decent depth on the blue line (primarily skilled, puck moving d-men in Subban, Hutton and McNally) and on the forward positions, which JB did a nice job of adding to this past June. Maybe we can try to pry Khokhlachev from Boston? Edler for Khokhlachev+2015 1st? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
William_Clarkson Posted August 5, 2014 Share Posted August 5, 2014 Actually, Sharp, Carter, and Bergeron all do that for their respective Stanely Cup Winning teams. Do what? I don't think there's any holes personally The defense is horrible. Edler for Khokhlachev+2015 1st? Boston can't take on that contract. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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