westvandude

For Draftists/TankNation Only: What's a Realistic Well-Thought Out Plan for Next Few Years?

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On 24/02/2017 at 0:51 PM, ForsbergTheGreat said:

I look at a team like the Hurricanes and they seem like they are on the right track. 

 

The have an abundance of young (already in the NHL) D, all under the age of 25:  Slavin, Pesce, Hanifin, Faulk, Murphy,

 

The have solid group of forwards under the age of 25:

Skinner, Lindholm Rask, Aho, Teravaninen, McGinn

 

They have a number of exciting prospects:

Fluery, Mckeown, Bean, Gauthier, Kuokkanen

 

They tend to only trade picks for young "established" NHL players:

Lack & Teravaninen.

 

They aren't afraid to move upcoming UFA vets at the deadline.  They have 10 picks in the upcoming NHL draft (6 picks in the first 3 rounds).  That abundance of young assets allows them to explore the options of trading for a top return and still have plenty of assets left in the cupboard.  Say someone like Duchene.

 

They're definitely on the right track and they are doing it without having to tank to get top 3 picks. 

And so are the :canucks:...

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11 minutes ago, hearditall said:

OLD NEWS DEAD THREAD. Had to dig down deep to find this one...

 

Why have all the WD threads disappeared?

Oh let me guess nothing to talk about cause JB & WD are on the same page after all... That was the only argument most had but now that the truth has come out, well now we all know the truth hurts...

 

Seeing that all Canuck talk lately is directed towards WD & the Young Prospects, in which The Canucks are strongly leaning towards this next season. It seems like JB really cleared a lot of the unknowns & speculations about WD & his relationship with JB...

 

Benning said that he has spoken to head coach Willie Desjardins about the team's philosophy change over the final stretch and Desjardins is "going to be on-board" with the plan.

“I talk to Willie on a day-to-day basis and we talk about (ice time for players),” Benning said. “Up to this point, his focus was to try and compete hard every night and win enough games to challenge for one of those last playoff spots.

“Now that reality has set in, he’s going to be on-board with getting our young kids more ice time.”

 

With JB's latest comments towards WD  & direction of the team with the prospects in mind, Is JB & WD on the same page all along? Or is JB letting WD know this is the way it is or else? Or totally something different?

 

I believe this is a sign that they all have been on the same page clearly but there's always the other side which keeps these threads so interesting & full of all sorts of opinions. This is what keeps us all coming back, right?

It makes for a juicier story if Willie only wants to play the vets for fear of losing his job. If Willie truly is on board with this shift I don't think it will last past these 10 games into next year.

 

I would be surprised if Willie is back next year though. Just don't think ownership can sell that to fans. Unless they have a talk over the summer and Willie agrees to be patient with the young players even when they make mistakes to reassure them and put them in key pp, and game situations for experience.

 

I have a feeling though that Acquilini will want wins sooner rather than later. 

 

They could use a spark from Boeser signing and playing in a couple games before this season is done to really get people excited about Dahlen,Goldobin and the future young team next year.

Edited by Chip Kelly

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38 minutes ago, Chip Kelly said:

If Willie truly is on board with this shift I don't think it will last past these 10 games into next year.

 

I would be surprised if Willie is back next year though. Just don't think ownership can sell that to fans. Unless they have a talk over the summer and Willie agrees to be patient with the young players even when they make mistakes to reassure them and put them in key pp, and game situations for experience

:blink:

News just in:

JB & WD have been on same page ALL along... look have a read...

 

 

Benning said that he has spoken to head coach Willie Desjardins about the team's philosophy change over the final stretch and Desjardins is "going to be on-board" with the plan.

“I talk to Willie on a day-to-day basis and we talk about (ice time for players),” Benning said. “Up to this point, his focus was to try and compete hard every night and win enough games to challenge for one of those last playoff spots.

“Now that reality has set in, he’s going to be on-board with getting our young kids more ice time.”

Edited by hearditall

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4 hours ago, hearditall said:

:blink:

News just in:

JB & WD have been on same page ALL along... look have a read...

 

 

Benning said that he has spoken to head coach Willie Desjardins about the team's philosophy change over the final stretch and Desjardins is "going to be on-board" with the plan.

“I talk to Willie on a day-to-day basis and we talk about (ice time for players),” Benning said. “Up to this point, his focus was to try and compete hard every night and win enough games to challenge for one of those last playoff spots.

“Now that reality has set in, he’s going to be on-board with getting our young kids more ice time.”

Translation;

 

i told willie we are out of the playoffs.  So play the kids.

  • Upvote 1

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invent a time machine, go back a year, lose a few games in california, slip bettman a tranquilizer, pick in the top three and continue top three cycle three more years

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On ‎2017‎-‎02‎-‎23 at 2:57 AM, Hectic said:

I'm going to take one example from what you said above.

 

"Blackhawks tanked Toews Kane" 

 

Toews = 3rd overall pick 2006, Kane = 1st overall pick 2007. Where did the Hawks finish those years? Let's take a look:

 

2006: Chicago finishes 3rd last in the league (Canucks did the same last year).

2007: Chicago finishes 5th last in the league (Canucks finished 6th last in 2014).

 

All of their other first round picks (Keith, Seabrook, Schmaltz, etc.) were later picks. Free agent signings of Hossa and Campbell along the way helped their case of course, however the backbone of their team was based around a 3rd last and a 5th last finish. Remember the Canucks had a 3rd last and 6th last finish in the last three years, and what's looking like another bottom 5 finish this year.

 

How did Chicago get Patrick Kane? They won the lottery. How did Pittsburgh get Sidney Crosby? They won the lottery (bad example though, as Malkin and Fleury were also 1st/2nd overall picks in the years prior). My point being that the lottery plays a huge part in this process, in addition to the players available. What if we tanked and got Erik Johnson? What if we came in 5th last, won the lottery, and got McDavid? There's no formula to building your team through tanking - there shouldn't be. Winnipeg got Laine even though we had better odds. The lottery is even tougher to win now even if you're the last place team.  

True but there is one guarantee....you will never have a chance at a McDavid or a Crosby unless you are in position to win the lottery.

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On ‎2017‎-‎03‎-‎08 at 9:01 PM, NUCKER67 said:

I just don't think teams tank on purpose. Players are pro athletes who are bred to be competitive. I doubt players would take a fall in hopes that their GM can get their team a player who will make a difference in 2-3 years. Bad teams are just bad teams.

 

I think they should re-sign Miller, sign Horvat and Tryamkin to long term deals, put the pressure on Elder to waive and get him out of there (to MTL: Edler and Virtanen to VAN: Galchenyuk. Re-unite him with Boucher and Goldobin), get Boeser into the lineup next season, try to sign Aston-Reese. Benning will also do well at the draft. Oh, and a new head coach.

If you are going to trade Virtanen (and I am not in favor of doing that) at least do it when his value is higher....right now he wouldn't get you much.

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3 hours ago, riffraff said:

Translation;

 

i told willie we are out of the playoffs.  So play the kids.

Translation ;

I told Willie to play the kids and lose as many games as posible.

Tank baby Tank

 

He offered hom a bonus if we end up in 29th place.

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On 11/1/2016 at 5:52 PM, VIC_CITY said:

 

That's an absolute best case scenario lineup (2019). It will mean that all of our prospects reach their ceilings. 

 

IMO Baertschi and Granlund are still huge question marks. They still haven't shown enough that we can say they're going to be NHL regulars in 2019, let alone 1st/2nd players. I think it's safe to say that if one them is a legit top 6 player in 2019, that would be considered a win for us. 

 

Same thing with your 3rd line. It's 50/50 if Zalewski even becomes an NHL player. Gaunce should be ok but he has a long way to go. I expected more out of him this season. Maybe my expectations were a little unrealistic? The season is still young though. 

In a lot of these posts, I am seeing just how underrated both Granlund and Baertschi are with the fans.  Both came in this season with big expectations and both have taken their opportunities and run with them.  They are not going anywhere anytime soon.  Both are 23 and 24 yrs old, lots of time to grow and produce.  Granlunds brother over in Minnesota is having a career year and he had a few years to develop with the Wild before he blew up this year and Markus is at what 19 goals and counting, and its only his 1st full year playing.  He has been moved from line to line and now is having great success with the twins, knows where to receive and shoot the puck when playing with them.

Baertschi can flat out produce offense and he and Horvat have that chemistry out on the ice and hopefully this is for many years to come! 

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8 hours ago, hearditall said:

:blink:

News just in:

JB & WD have been on same page ALL along... look have a read...

 

 

Benning said that he has spoken to head coach Willie Desjardins about the team's philosophy change over the final stretch and Desjardins is "going to be on-board" with the plan.

“I talk to Willie on a day-to-day basis and we talk about (ice time for players),” Benning said. “Up to this point, his focus was to try and compete hard every night and win enough games to challenge for one of those last playoff spots.

“Now that reality has set in, he’s going to be on-board with getting our young kids more ice time.”

Translation:

 

You did a great job keeping this team in the race as long as you did Willie.  M.A.S.H., mumps, flu and food poisoning - you've got a half dozen AHLers in your forward group at this point, haven't had a healthy blueline all year, and you only started to fall off the pace just before the trade deadline.  Great job - (and good timing for once :ph34r:)

 

You won't be judged in the end on your proximity to a playoff spot, so don't sweat the results from here forward.  You had a mandate to be as competitive as possible and try to make the playoffs - that ship has sailed.  We made an honest effort this year and have nothing to hang our heads about.   At this point you have Boucher, Shore, Cramarossa, Labate, Megna, Chaput all in your lineup - to put it in perspective, we entered the season with Chaput, probably the best of the lot (or perhaps waiver wire Boucher) as our 14th or 15th forward - so well done Willie.  No coach was going to win under those circumstances.

 

(There's a center we really like around the 5 hole in the draft, so let er (this season) r.i.p.)

 

 

 

 

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We're about to pick top 6 for the 3rd time in 4 years. People that think this is a competing team need a reality check. Also there is no tanking we're not intentionally losing we're just that bad folks wake up! Plan should be BPA while we're in the dumps. Get the best player available because we need help from almost everywhere. Hopefully strike gold on our top prospects and picks and get us out from the bottom of the league soon.

Edited by flickyoursedin
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On 11/1/2016 at 5:05 PM, Canucks Curse said:

A future 1C and 1D is exactly what we need.

we lack C prospect depth as well after trading Mcann

Pretty much this.

I do think that Horvat has the capability to be a #1 C. And if the chips fall in the right place, he will be.

So much of what needs to happen though, is still up in the air because it's too early to tell.

Will Boeser be the goal scorer in the NHL everyone thinks he'll be? Will Goldobin? Will Dahlen?

I have been on the Tryamkin train from the get go. This guy is going to be something special. You can see it already. So there is a possibility of having a BIG (pun intended) piece on our blue line.

The team does need a #1 C and D -> and in Tryamkin and Horvat, we may already have them. Time will tell. 

The Sedins, and Edler need to be moved and/or retire before the next core starts to mature - or it can't and won't.
Hank and Danny have a year left and I expect them to play that out. I liked the signing of Eriksson, it was worth the risk to get the twins a top shelf shooter, but the term is AWFUL. I'm hoping he has a big year next year... 30+ goals somehow (please please) so there is a possibility of moving him before he gets into his mid 30's and we end up with another Sedin situation where you have $$$$$$$$$$ invested in declining players you shouldn't. 

Goaltending? I think management is looking at options for a starter next year if Miller isn't back. He's a UFA but so are 28 other goalies this year - so there are definitely options on bringing in someone else. He's facing a tonne of shots here, and now he's doing it in vain so I think given any opportunity he's gone.
If Demko's development in Utica goes the way is has been, he may jump ahead of Markstrom on the depth chart sooner than later. People say don't rush him but if you're ready, you're ready. A lot of that has to do with how the team evolves up here... but look at Matt Murray in Pittsburgh. He played 1 season in the AHL, got called up, and won a Stanley Cup at the age of 22.

Coaching. Big one. I don't think WD will be back. I've said that I'd like to see Travis Green get his shot, but on the other hand that would make 2 rookie NHL coaches in a row for this organization.... the difference is, Travis played almost 1,000 games in the NHL. That gives him a tonne of insight into the pro game. Willie never made it past Junior.
Overall, if you look at what we left Green to work with down in Utica.. they should be falling apart. Instead he's suddenly got the hottest goalie in the league and the team is 8-2 in it's last 10 games and Demko is 7-0 with a 1.0 GAA and .965 SV%
For a team that's missed Chaput and Megan all season, and Grenier for chunks recently, that's half of their top 6 gone. 
Green is literally making something out of nothing and after this year if he isn't brought up, I think he'll be snatched by someone else - so the time is now. 

 

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On 01/11/2016 at 4:39 PM, westvandude said:

This is only for those who consider themselves fans of tanking for high drafts (if this is not you, please don't waste your own time and ours with lame one liners)

 

I love reading well-thought out analysis... and considering the Canucks' rough start and all the predictions of where we are to end up this season, I wanna see what you guys think of a good plan for the next few years considering our needs and the prospects coming up that we could draft from, and potential realistic trades.

 

Here's a link to next draft's top prospects to aim for: http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/juniors/sportsnets-2017-nhl-draft-prospect-rankings-october-jeff-marek/

 

Looks like the top 4 are C and D, which arguably not what we'll need for our future top lines. And realistically, it's hard to aim that high anyways. 5 to 7 are RW and LW, which is a good place to aim for. 

 

So basically, please tell us if you have a well-thought out plan that includes:

- Realistic assumptions (so no when we finish last and get #1 pick...)

- Comprehensive analysis (includes drafts, trades and signings)

- Assumption that we are going to be bad for next 2 seasons and finish bottom 5-10

 

Thanks!

I think we all can contribute now with the removal of Burrows, Hansen, and the teams slide.  

 

draft hischier or Patrick - another 2 years of development for guy like Dahlen, 2017 top pick, and Demko to make a sizable impact in the NHL.

 

in that time Boeser, Gaudette, Virtanen, Juolevi, etc will all have some nhl experience and be ready to compete. 

 

2 seasons from now we will be competing for the playoffs. 3 years from now we will start looking like legitmate up and coming contenders.

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1 hour ago, bluesman60 said:

True but there is one guarantee....you will never have a chance at a McDavid or a Crosby unless you are in position to win the lottery.

True. What is also true is that a business plan that requires a great deal of luck isn't actually a business plan, it is wishful thinking.

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Patrick and Hischier will.be fabulous centres? Why are you guys saying that it's a "weak" Draft? Because of the "experts"

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3 minutes ago, The Aquamen said:

Patrick and Hischier will.be fabulous centres? Why are you guys saying that it's a "weak" Draft? Because of the "experts"

Mittelstadt aint no slouch either.

We'll get a great player regardless.

  • Upvote 1

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2 hours ago, oldnews said:

Translation:

 

You did a great job keeping this team in the race as long as you did Willie.  M.A.S.H., mumps, flu and food poisoning - you've got a half dozen AHLers in your forward group at this point, haven't had a healthy blueline all year, and you only started to fall off the pace just before the trade deadline.  Great job - (and good timing for once :ph34r:)

 

You won't be judged in the end on your proximity to a playoff spot, so don't sweat the results from here forward.  You had a mandate to be as competitive as possible and try to make the playoffs - that ship has sailed.  We made an honest effort this year and have nothing to hang our heads about.   At this point you have Boucher, Shore, Cramarossa, Labate, Megna, Chaput all in your lineup - to put it in perspective, we entered the season with Chaput, probably the best of the lot (or perhaps waiver wire Boucher) as our 14th or 15th forward - so well done Willie.  No coach was going to win under those circumstances.

 

(There's a center we really like around the 5 hole in the draft, so let er (this season) r.i.p.)

 

 

 

 

:towel:

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