"Tank" is a method, not a wish (Discussion)

[J.I.A.H.N]

Over the years, we have seen teams sell off players at the TDL for assets which have caused them to fall in the standings, but the truth is, that you do not find many teams through the course of recent history that have been in the middle of the over all standings sell off. Teams may sell off an aging UFA that has expressed a desire to go to free agency at the end of the year, but generally teams that are in contention for a playoff berth (within 2 to 3 positions of a berth in their conference) do not attempt a sell off. Especially if their team is young and upcoming. (It would be counter productive)

 

So, generally what you see, is the teams are in the bottom 10 to 12, are teams making decisions as to whether to go to rebuild or prop up their asset base by buying at the TDL, and of course this is again determined by whether they are an old team falling or a young team climbing.......this makes sense really.

 

So generally, you will only see 2 or 3 teams moving large scale assets at the TDL, and all of those teams are in the bottom 3rd, and all those teams will be older, aging teams that would like to shorten their rebuild process and are willing to accept a short stay near the bottom. (Hopefully) This almost always takes longer than expected, but if management moves players, before their value has plummeted, they may expedite the process having acquired better than expected assets......there is risk to this process, as you may have given up better assets than you receive.

 

Another way in which a team may be perceived to "Tank" is through injury, in which case, the "Tank" will only happen at the TDL. if the team is near the bottom, and only players that do not fit into the teams timeline. Even still, with the team artificial drop in the standing due to injury, you will not see a sell off of young or mid-range assets, unless of course there is panic aka Edmonton.

 

The last way, and probably the most ignored discussion, is through miss management...again Edmonton. The general feeling of CDC's is that Edmonton has deliberately "Tanked", where as the general opinion through the league, is that it has been mismanagement, and lack of good drafting. Most people will talk about the Oilers very high first round picks, and complain about the assets acquired with them, but in fact Edmonton's demise has been mostly with the lack of success in the 2nd, 3rd and later round picks.(No depth or late round surprises)

 

Now the reason, I have made this post, is that many do not understand the differences, between the 3 ways, and do not accept that GM's do move assets, just to move assets. There must be preconceived conditions.....or acceptable returns ......aka an aging core, an injury riddled roster, or miss-management or an Ottawa state of affairs........aka cheap owner!

 

In an injury plagued season, where a team drops because of injury, you may see that team move an older asset that is on an out going contract, if there is a proper return, and/or there has been an agreement to move the player at the TDL.....aka Hamhuis....not an adequate offer, and aka Vanek an out going contract and what I would have assumed was an acceptable return by Benning.

 

Aqualini and Gillis's mistake IMO, was not recognizing that favorite players should have been moved for young assets, and this was continued in the early stages of Benning's tenure. (Which has been changed somewhat in the past couple of years)

 

The argument of the word "Tank" in CDC posts, are in actual fact, an argument of whether "Benning" should be sitting older players and played younger players, to give them experience in the later parts of the year.

 

Fortunately or Unfortunately, depending on whether you like the recent wins, the team has been getting healthier, and has been more competitive, and more in line with their mid-October to November league position's play. To me, the win's indicate depth and the opposing teams, not taking that depth seriously. Benning has done a great job, and to be honest, I am not sure what Benning could do to stop these win's. The players are playing for pride.............old and young alike............depth and pride, 2 attributes I can get behind.

 

Imagine what 2 more drafts, player development continues, the prospects arrive and mature.............I am not worried about where in the top 10 we draft, as I would take any of them, and feel with the strength of this draft, all will be better than average. I hope Benning can get another late 1st/early 2nd, but it is much more important that Benning picks good picks, rather than give up something he should not..........

 

The debate and sharing of opinions are good and have taken us through a tough year..............I can't wait to the post lottery talk and the post draft talk! LOL, At least one of us should actually be right!

 

I apologize for the long winded post!

[Adarsh Sant]

Ok

[coastal.view]

who cares

it is a dark negative approach to professional competition

distasteful

you spend way too much time on this issue

 

am glad it is now a dead issue for this team

and never was real anyway .. just in the minds of many who follow the team and post on these boards

 

am now looking forward to how the team moves on from the sedins

nothing dark or distasteful about those 2

[Rob_Zepp]

You (OP) ignore one very simple fact, the same fact ignored by the roughly 100 others similar threads.   THERE were no other deals out there for higher end draft picks.    They didn't "hold onto their favourite players", the deals were not there as the nature of deals made more than substantiated.

 

I wonder if there will be a time on CDC when people can simply deal with the reality of situations and the taking things as they are and look forward versus trying to reinvent the past including double guessing things...and replacing those moves with things that were not even remotely possible.   Discussing reality and the real team moving forward versus this constant fantasy world would be refreshing.

[Odjick_fan]

I agree with the guy below lol

[48MPHSlapShot]

This is a tankworthy lineup. We really shouldn't be winning these games. Can't blame management for this.

[J.I.A.H.N]

20 hours ago, Rob_Zepp said:

You (OP) ignore one very simple fact, the same fact ignored by the roughly 100 others similar threads.   THERE were no other deals out there for higher end draft picks.    They didn't "hold onto their favourite players", the deals were not there as the nature of deals made more than substantiated.

 

I wonder if there will be a time on CDC when people can simply deal with the reality of situations and the taking things as they are and look forward versus trying to reinvent the past including double guessing things...and replacing those moves with things that were not even remotely possible.   Discussing reality and the real team moving forward versus this constant fantasy world would be refreshing.

Thanks for your support Rob!

 

The reality today is we are in the middle of a rebuild..........."The Middle" .......IMO

There are several different ways in which Benning can go (If he and Aqualini have the guts)

 

#1. Status quo...................continue with the draft and rebuild, no crazy moves

#2. Go into free agency....and sign "High" end talent....aka Tavares, Karlsson, Kane etc.

#3. Move players like chess men and do a combo or 1 and 2

 

Personally, I feel that if we choose #1, we are still 2 to 3 years away, from completing our rebuild, if we choose #2, we will be able to afford 1 to 2 high end UFA's and it will speed up our rebuild 5 years at least, and #3, where we sign Kane and move Baertschi type deals, where we gain assets and upgrades. (Baertschi cost an 2nd and has developed and should be able to get us a good pick (not top 20) either with a added pick, or with a cash dump etc.

 

The truth of the Sedin's retirement, is we would never have even experienced Sedinary, if Burke had no been creative, and taken risk....would we consider moving a 2020 1st, would we sign a Tavares type player? Will our draft picks all develop and reach their ceilings...............these are all unknown questions...............and are the important ones.....

 

But I think you know that.......I probably dwell on the draft too much, but it is where my interest is these days, and it is so important.

 

I don't mind you or anyone else crapping on a redundant post or a bad one.....(probably a little of both on this one), but it usually draws out the best in other posters, if it clicks....and I find  that otherwise the discussions die........and as the draft and the draft positions are constantly changing at this time of year, I think the information changes, as do the opinions on certain players...........I like to read that evolution..........of opinion.........especially from guys who have a first hand look at the game......(aka  - YOU!)

 

Hey, maybe I am wrong for doing that.........but that is my MO

[Rick Blight]

23 hours ago, janisahockeynut said:

Fortunately or Unfortunately, depending on whether you like the recent wins, the team has been getting healthier, and has been more competitive, and more in line with their mid-October to November league position's play. To me, the win's indicate depth and the opposing teams, not taking that depth seriously. Benning has done a great job, and to be honest, I am not sure what Benning could do to stop these win's. The players are playing for pride.............old and young alike............depth and pride, 2 attributes I can get behind.

I am not sure what you are trying to say with that long post but I kind of focused on the one paragraph above.

You say we are "getting healthier" and that is a contributing factor to the team being more competitive in recent games. You're kidding right? Who exactly has come back to make us healthier?

You state that you are not sure what Benning could do to stop these wins......are you saying that your expectation is he should be looking at what he could do to stop these wins? I kind of find it funny when fans get upset with Canucks' wins as if to suggest someone (players/coaches/management?) should take actions to stop these meaningless wins. It almost seems like fans expect our team to be smarter than other teams and find a way to out tank our opposition. People probably recognize that professional athletes risk lengthy suspensions, up to and including life, if it is ever proven that they deliberately threw games but somehow management would be doing a great job if they could somehow deliberately maneuver the team into an intentional loss. Just does not make sense to me and,as a fan, I really question the integrity of the game if, and where, this actually persists.

I certainly agree that these professional athletes will always play for pride but I think you are missing an even bigger factor. They are playing for their jobs.....they are playing to support their families and continue to earn a good living.

[J.I.A.H.N]

5 hours ago, Rick Blight said:

I am not sure what you are trying to say with that long post but I kind of focused on the one paragraph above.

You say we are "getting healthier" and that is a contributing factor to the team being more competitive in recent games. You're kidding right? Who exactly has come back to make us healthier?

You state that you are not sure what Benning could do to stop these wins......are you saying that your expectation is he should be looking at what he could do to stop these wins? I kind of find it funny when fans get upset with Canucks' wins as if to suggest someone (players/coaches/management?) should take actions to stop these meaningless wins. It almost seems like fans expect our team to be smarter than other teams and find a way to out tank our opposition. People probably recognize that professional athletes risk lengthy suspensions, up to and including life, if it is ever proven that they deliberately threw games but somehow management would be doing a great job if they could somehow deliberately maneuver the team into an intentional loss. Just does not make sense to me and,as a fan, I really question the integrity of the game if, and where, this actually persists.

I certainly agree that these professional athletes will always play for pride but I think you are missing an even bigger factor. They are playing for their jobs.....they are playing to support their families and continue to earn a good living.

I think at the time, Tanev and Sitter had just got back, or I did not know or forgot that Tanev was out again. I actually think Sutter is a key player for us, and it is obvious that Tanev is.......so that is where I was coming from there......scant explanation, but I think that is what it was????

 

As for the Benning reference............NYR's just traded 1/2 a team, but the players are still playing hard.........pride, honor........jobs for sure!.............but my point is that it was management, and not the players or coach that changed the direction............that is what I was getting at....................

 

I agree......................I am not sure what I was getting at either with this post...............I have kind of beaten this subject to death..............after yesterdays announcement regarding the Sedin's.............I don't have quite the same drive ...............I will say, that the draft will never be as important as it will be these next couple of years............we are not finished with the rebuild, and the more picks the better....blah blah blah........

 

that is about it!

 

Cheers!

[Canucklehead73]

I there has been certain times teams have tanked to get a guy like a Crosby but it's only a few teams swirling the drain that are able to try to pull off that sort of true tank.

 

Most of the time teams trading vets are simply "folding" their hand so to speak when they realise the team they built isn't going to contend going forward so they hit the reset button.

 

People assume teams might be tanking when there team just sucks plain and simple and free fall after trading away some support players.

 

Kinda like when we made our moves.

 

Anyways theres no longer a guarantee for the number one pick so the idea of a tank is moot.

[hammertime]

You need a cold shower bud.

[J.I.A.H.N]

Oh, Please Mods.........remove this post!

 

Not one of my finer moments!