The Official European Football (Soccer) Thread

[spook007]

On 13/05/2018 at 9:06 PM, ReggieBush said:

Not yet. I like Mo, though I think he benefits by playing in a league where they don't know how to defend

I would have supported that argument... until I saw Roma defend against Liverpool... Worst defending I've seen in like ever this late in the Champions league...

 

On 13/05/2018 at 5:09 AM, ReggieBush said:

 

Where to even begin.

 

1. Real could win Champions League without Ronaldo. They have a ridiculous amount of talent everywhere. For example you could stick Luka Modric on Sassoulo and they could probably make the UCL knockout stage. He is SO good, and you can certainly make the argument that Toni Kroos, Marcelo, Isco, and Bale could do the same on other middling teams. 

 

2. Portugal will not win the world cup. They are not good enough, and IMO CR7 is not of the quality to carry an international team to a championship. Great teams win World Cups, very rarely do mediocre or just good teams win the tournament. Portugal are not a great team.

 

3. I think when you look over the course of history, you have to take into account the incredible things that players have done. For example, Diego Maradona carried 2 mediocre Napoli sides to titles in a league from the where at the time was a equivalent to a SuperLeague. Literally every top player in the world (bar a few) were playing in the Serie A at the time. Imagine a player going to like Real Sociedad and winning the league over the likes Real, Barca, Atleti ect. That is what Maradona did.

 

To make a long story short, he isn't in my top ten even if Real win UCL

 

1. Diego Maradona

2. Leo Messi

3. Cruyff

4. Maldini

5. Beckenbauer

6. Zidane

7. Best

8. Ronaldo Nazario

9. Di Stefano

10. Zico

11. Garrincha

 

are the players that I would put ahead of him at the very least. I would put him in the same category of like Ronaldinho, Henry, Baggio, Totti ect.

Nice list.... still think you are underselling CR7.

If you have Messi at 2 surely CR7 is higher up on this list.

 

While I totally agree Portugal is not good enough to win the WC, Messi hasn't been able to do the same neither with a far stronger squad.

 

Other noticeable names incl.

Van Basten

Gerd Muller

Eusebio

Baresi

Pele

etc etc etc...

Page 437 for names.... 

Edited May 15, 2018 by spook007

[ReggieBush]

46 minutes ago, spook007 said:

I would have supported that argument... until I saw Roma defend against Liverpool... Worst defending I've seen in like ever this late in the Champions league...

 

Nice list.... still think you are underselling CR7.

If you have Messi at 2 surely CR7 is higher up on this list.

 

While I totally agree Portugal is not good enough to win the WC, Messi hasn't been able to do the same neither with a far stronger squad.

 

Other noticeable names incl.

Van Basten

Gerd Muller

Eusebio

Baresi

Pele

etc etc etc...

Page 437 for names.... 

The first leg was an example of poor tactical execution. Not the quality of defending. Manolas is world class. Florenzi is world class. Fazio is decent. Kolorov is decent. 

 

All due respect to the Premier League, but nobody knows how to defend with the exception of Spurs. 

 

As far as my list goes, I think the ability to create is more important than the ability to finish. That is why I put the greatest striker of all time imo (R9), at 8. In terms of flat our scoring and finishing, CR7 is probably top 3 all time. But CR7 could never thread a pass like Cruyff or Zico. That is not necessarily a knock against him, but the ability to create, make others better is just something I value more in a player.

 

You can make the case for Van Basten to be included in my top 11. I don't see an argument for any of the other players you listed though

[spook007]

1 hour ago, ReggieBush said:

The first leg was an example of poor tactical execution. Not the quality of defending. Manolas is world class. Florenzi is world class. Fazio is decent. Kolorov is decent. 

 

All due respect to the Premier League, but nobody knows how to defend with the exception of Spurs. 

 

As far as my list goes, I think the ability to create is more important than the ability to finish. That is why I put the greatest striker of all time imo (R9), at 8. In terms of flat our scoring and finishing, CR7 is probably top 3 all time. But CR7 could never thread a pass like Cruyff or Zico. That is not necessarily a knock against him, but the ability to create, make others better is just something I value more in a player.

 

You can make the case for Van Basten to be included in my top 11. I don't see an argument for any of the other players you listed though

Fair enough. I'd have Pele in my top 10, but as you say he is not a play maker.

 

With regards to Roma, you can call it poor tactical execution, but when the strikers run past you at will I'll call it poor defending. Liverpool didn't even have to work for it...

Do not disagree that defending isn't the strongest side in the premiership, but believe most leagues are poor defensively, with the obvious exception of Italian Football over the years, where defending was made into an art... Baresi and Maldini being the stand outs. 

[ReggieBush]

33 minutes ago, spook007 said:

Fair enough. I'd have Pele in my top 10, but as you say he is not a play maker.

 

With regards to Roma, you can call it poor tactical execution, but when the strikers run past you at will I'll call it poor defending. Liverpool didn't even have to work for it...

Do not disagree that defending isn't the strongest side in the premiership, but believe most leagues are poor defensively, with the obvious exception of Italian Football over the years, where defending was made into an art... Baresi and Maldini being the stand outs. 

The Pele as the GOAT talk kind of bugs me because he scored a lot of them against part time footballers who had day jobs. I still think he is a legend of the game, but is put on too high a pedestal.

 

When you have 4 attackers consistently running on 3 defenders, especially the ones the quality of Mane, Firmino, and Salah (plus wijinaldum who used to be a winger in the Dutch League) it is not going to be pretty, even if those 3 defenders are 06' cannavaro, Maldini, and Baresi lol. 

 

I was having this discussion with my friend the other day in regards to the big leagues in europe

 

The EPL is the most exciting due to the erratic nature and lack of structure

The Serie A is the league that is the best tactically

La Liga is is the best technically

Bundesliga is a mix of all three

[spook007]

22 minutes ago, ReggieBush said:

The Pele as the GOAT talk kind of bugs me because he scored a lot of them against part time footballers who had day jobs. I still think he is a legend of the game, but is put on too high a pedestal.

 

When you have 4 attackers consistently running on 3 defenders, especially the ones the quality of Mane, Firmino, and Salah (plus wijinaldum who used to be a winger in the Dutch League) it is not going to be pretty, even if those 3 defenders are 06' cannavaro, Maldini, and Baresi lol. 

 

I was having this discussion with my friend the other day in regards to the big leagues in europe

 

The EPL is the most exciting due to the erratic nature and lack of structure

The Serie A is the league that is the best tactically

La Liga is is the best technically

Bundesliga is a mix of all three

Well he scored over a 1000 goals and won a couple of WC so... never mind.

 

With regards to 4 attackers running 3 defenders, its was still poor defending. Several goals was conceded by c/b's just letting the wingers ghost in behind them.

With 1 or 2 defensive M/F's + 2 F/B's it should not have been this easy for Liverpool.

I bet you the three defenders you mentioned would not have been done over that easy, even 3 v 4...

 

As I'm sure you know Baresi and Maldini in 196 matches only conceded 29 goals... Now thats what legends are made of... Fair to mention as well that they were part of one of the best clubsides ever...

 

I totally agree on the way you look at the leagues. 

I'm a firm favourite of EPL as I find it very exciting and unpredictable. 

 

[Tre Mac]

What a effin goal by Bale.  I don't watch much footy but that's probably the greatest goal I've ever seen watching a game.

[Caboose]

Sergio Ramos making a mockery of the sport all match long, all while saving the match on multiple occasions for Real Madrid. 

 

Vintage Ramos. 

[Tony Romo]

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

Forget it 

Edited May 26, 2018 by Scottish⑦Canuck

[Lateralus91]

3 hours ago, Caboose said:

Sergio Ramos making a mockery of the sport all match long, all while saving the match on multiple occasions for Real Madrid. 

 

Vintage Ramos. 

 

Right before Karius first blunder.

 

I can't even begin to describe what I feel towards Ramos. People like him shouldn't be in football.

 

Can't wait for VAR in Champions League.

[Tony Romo]

Should have one more shot at the champions league with klopp as manager. Gutted with this year though as so many things went right for us, tough way to end. 

[Bizarre]

Liverpool were by far the better team prior to Salah going down. Such a shame.

 

It's a hard pill to swallow, a couple of horrendous goals against. Besides that I felt the whole team played well. That's what hurts the most.

 

Hopefully Salah is fit to play in the WC, which I am glad is on the way to help forgrt about this match. 

[Bruce Boudreau]

Where is the World Cup thread?

 

Nobody else is excited? So what there is no Italy or Netherlands...

 

Still have heavyweights like Germany, France,Brazil,Argentina, Spain,Portugal,Belgium, and England.

 

 Those 8 vs the field who you got?

[Lateralus91]

Karius was diagnosed with a concussion. Wonder in which situation that occured.

 

Ramos just should not be in football.

 

32 minutes ago, Chip Kelly said:

Where is the World Cup thread?

 

Nobody else is excited? So what there is no Italy or Netherlands...

 

Still have heavyweights like Germany, France,Brazil,Argentina, Spain,Portugal,Belgium, and England.

 

 Those 8 vs the field who you got?

Yeah, usual suspects really. Maybe Russia can surprise at home. France and Spain the big favourites for me.

 

Any thoughts on the omission of Leroy Sané? Was fun to follow the press on this.

German press: Ok. A little weird, but understandable.

British press: What the hell? One of the best players of the league not on the roster? U mad bro?

[Scottish⑦Canuck]

Would anyone be interested in a World Cup fantasy game?

 

I would do a draft style thing but I don't think we have the time and I don't know of any software that accommodates the World Cup. Usually a North American thing. So we might have to just to the traditional dream team league on a set budget.

[Bruce Boudreau]

11 hours ago, Lateralus91 said:

Karius was diagnosed with a concussion. Wonder in which situation that occured.

 

Ramos just should not be in football.

 

Yeah, usual suspects really. Maybe Russia can surprise at home. France and Spain the big favourites for me.

 

Any thoughts on the omission of Leroy Sané? Was fun to follow the press on this.

German press: Ok. A little weird, but understandable.

British press: What the hell? One of the best players of the league not on the roster? U mad bro?

Maybe it's a young player quota? They already have Werner and more than enough attacking talent.

 

Was surprised Alvaro Morata didn't make Spain. He is a goal poacher like Thomas Muller but as a center forward. Seems to play well in big matches.

 

I suppose they like what they have in Asensio and Costa and Isco etc attacking wise already.

 

What's the deal with Benzema being left off France again. Still good enough to play for Real Madrid but not enough for Les Bleus?

 

I like how Brazil is positioned offensively. Neymar finally has some attacking support from Coutinho,Firmino, and Gabriel Jesus, not to mention the blistering pace of Douglas Costa off the wings and the all round ability of Fred in support of Coutinho.

 

I am still not sure if they can hold up defensively.

 

Felipe Luis and Thiago Silva would a solid CB defensive pair but one without much pace at their age to close down space and  help in transition.

 

Alex Sandro curiously not selected but Danilo and Miranda were.

 

Will be interested in Tites starting squad.

[Heretic]

Just checking - is there going to be a separate thread for the 2018 World Cup? 

 

 

[AV.]

@Lateralus91 Scotuing report on Sokratis?

[Lateralus91]

1 hour ago, Alain Vigneault said:

@Lateralus91 Scotuing report on Sokratis?

Very stoic, tough as nails defender. Probably will fit in better in England because of that. Bundesliga refs tend to award more free kicks than their English counterparts imho. Also quite an underdog fan favourite for that same reason. On the other hand he's not very vocal on the pitch. Our officials were expecting leadership qualities from him, which he definitely is not the person to do that. I think they realized that by now.

Pretty quick for a CB, although he has slowed down a bit this season. But he needs a good ball playing defender at his side, preferably with very good positional play. Sokratis can be very shaky and a bit over agressive in his positional play. Likes to attack the opponent rather than wait for support which can result in awful situations if he doesn't win the ball. His build up still leaves much to be desired but got a bit better the last 1.5 seasons or so. Hence the suggestion of a good ball playing defender at his side.

Was quite good when paired with Hummels because Hummels has those qualities Sokratis is lacking. Plus that was mostly under Tuchel who found ways to take those build up duties away from Sokratis and assign them to other players.

 

I'm happy to get rid of him. Not because he's inherently a bad player. But I just don't like his style of football. I'd rather we had kept Bartra instead of him cause he's a way better football player. But there are probably enough people in Dortmund of the opposite opinion.

 

The fee (allegedly 18-19m €) is probably fair. The contract you guys want to give him (4yrs, 10m € I heard) is too expensive imho.

[Lateralus91]

2 hours ago, Chip Kelly said:

Maybe it's a young player quota? They already have Werner and more than enough attacking talent.

 

Was surprised Alvaro Morata didn't make Spain. He is a goal poacher like Thomas Muller but as a center forward. Seems to play well in big matches.

 

I suppose they like what they have in Asensio and Costa and Isco etc attacking wise already.

 

What's the deal with Benzema being left off France again. Still good enough to play for Real Madrid but not enough for Les Bleus?

 

I like how Brazil is positioned offensively. Neymar finally has some attacking support from Coutinho,Firmino, and Gabriel Jesus, not to mention the blistering pace of Douglas Costa off the wings and the all round ability of Fred in support of Coutinho.

 

I am still not sure if they can hold up defensively.

 

Felipe Luis and Thiago Silva would a solid CB defensive pair but one without much pace at their age to close down space and  help in transition.

 

Alex Sandro curiously not selected but Danilo and Miranda were.

 

Will be interested in Tites starting squad.

Nothing to do with young players. Löw told the press Sané had not found his place in the team yet. Weird explanation. But if you watch a couple of games of the national team you can understand where he's coming from. At City he has the role of receive ball, accelerate, run over/around/through defender, shoot/pass in box. That role is not there in Löw's system. And Löw's system is the most important thing for Löw. Has always been that way since he took over with Klinsmann in 2004.

 

Benzema I think tried to blackmail a team mate a few years ago? Not 100% sure though.