inane Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Can you someone on CDC acting like a jerk? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 I assume you mean 'explain why'? No, I don't know anything that some person. But is there any possible answer that wouldn't eventually be 'god made him that way'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 How hypocritical - no? Don't you pick the parts of the same menu and ignore the rest? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 I didn't say there was anything irrelevant - all that information is there so that we can learn from it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Well no, I disregard the entire bible, and this is as someone who used to be a Christian. But that's the old testament that's used to try and justify, especially down south, bigotry against gays. It was also used to justify slavery and repression of women. While that was in the "old days" the same old testament is being used today. Note that the bible is certainly direct as quoted last page that suggests killing is okay, but there's nothing in the bible that directly says one should actively seek out to ban gays from marriage. So you must pick and choose which parts of the bible to follow, or else you'd be in jail or worse. How in the world does one believe a book is some perfect, holy word that they can easily choose to disregard portions of that either they personally don't like/follow or portions that in a contemporary fashion are flat out heinous? It's pretty obvious religious beliefs, especially those which derive from mythological texts, function as a form of intentional self delusion.. for whatever subjective reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Oh? I thought those were laws for humans to follow., not just "information". When did parts of the law turn from being law to being "information"? What is it god wants us to learn from passages like above? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Sikes Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Actually, the Bible has always said it was round - it just took scientists that long to agree. Luke 17:30, "Even thus shall it be IN THE DAY when the son of man is revealed. (vs 31) IN THAT DAY . . . (vs 34) I tell you, IN THAT NIGHT . . . " Nobody in Luke's day thought it could be day and night at the same time! They thought the earth was flat! Luke was written around 65 A.D. How did Luke know something that the scientists didn't know until the 16th century? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 At the time, they were laws - as there wasn't anything else. Other than Jesus coming, there really isn't a single event that changed some of those laws into information. The laws (our legal ones) are a result of us growing up so to speak. The only thing is, our legal laws don't teach us what is right - they teach us what is wrong - that is, do "this" and you go to jail. Yes, the reverse is obviously the "right" way to live...but it's not really their purpose... Jesus taught us to love. Take the ten commandments for example... The first 3 are there to teach us how to love God. The last 7 are there to teach us how to love one another. Jesus emphasized that - "love one another". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 Nothing else, eh? How's that for some revisionist Christian history? How to love god, eh?You shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself any carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth; you shall not bow down to them nor serve them. For I, the Lord your God, am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and fourth generations of those who hate me, but showing mercy to thousands, to those wholove Me and keep My commandments. You shall not take the name of the Lord your God in vain, for the Lord will not hold him guiltless who takes His name in vain. Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor and do all your work, but the seventh day is the Sabbath of the Lord your God. In it you shall do no work: you, nor your son, nor your daughter, nor your manservant, nor your maidservant, nor your cattle, nor your stranger who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and hallowed it. Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the Lord your God is giving you. You shall not murder. You shall not commit adultery. You shall not steal. You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor. You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s. Rape is strangely absent. Guess god thought it was alright in those days. By the way, none of the three say anything about how to love god. It's all about obeying him or having your offsprings to the fourth generation suffer for it. Some loving god. Jesus taught us to love, yet commandments taught us to love centuries before he came about. Hmmm... are you saying Jesus gave the 10 commandments? Or that Jesus is god, and god gave the 10 commandments before Jesus existed? This is confusing and I'd like clarification. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted May 24, 2012 Author Share Posted May 24, 2012 Yes. I believe in what some people call the Trinity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 24, 2012 Share Posted May 24, 2012 So much for monotheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Wrong again Hawk boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Excellent point. I concede. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buddhas Hand Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 Maybe we should just get together for a couple of beers and keep religion off the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Satan's Evil Twin Posted May 25, 2012 Author Share Posted May 25, 2012 Maybe we should just get together for a couple of beers and keep religion off the table? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VICanucksfan5551 Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 The term "indentured" can be used to mean a contract binding someone for a specified time or it can simply bind someone to another. In either case, being fickle about terms does not affect the argument that many of the people who were slaves in ancient Israel were slaves because it provided them a means of survival instead of starvation or death. 5) I think you have a rather naive assumption that an invaded people would be perfectly content with newcomers moving into their territory and taking their lands and possessions. Don't you think resentment and bitterness would build over time? 6) Um...God pledged to give the Israelites the Promised Land (and your explanation requires that Yahweh exists and leads Israel) and because of this the corrupt, pagan nations living in the land had to be driven out. First of all, the land had already been granted to Abraham in a covenant so the conquest of the Promised Land was part of the way in which this was fulfilled. Of course people don't need to be saints to be treated like human beings. But if a nation is corrupt and peaceful diplomacy is not an option, how do you remove that corruption? You're essentially saying that Israel should have allowed the Canaanites to continue their child sacrifices and other evil practices. The reasons why the Canaanites had to be driven out of the land is because the Lord knew that their evil customs would negatively affect the Israelites and influence them to do wicked things (and this is continuously attested to in the Old Testament when time and time again Israel turns away from God). Again, look up Paul Copan's Is God A Moral Monster? because it deals precisely with these difficult questions in the Old Testament. As for your last point...the Bible never condones or praises slavery. Perhaps you will find a verse where you think it does - but context is important (e.g. Ephesians 6:6 could easily be misconstrued as pro-slavery, but it obviously means something different than oppressive slavery). I think one of the problems with your reasoning in this last point is that you assume that God exists because you are offended that He did not follow Christ's command to "love your enemies". But if God exists, then it is His prerogative to decide what is just or unjust, good or bad. Although this is certainly bound to spill into another multi-page debate which I have little time or patience for (Internet apologetics/evangelism is sooo effective - particularly to people already dug into their presuppositions!) I would say that from a naturalistic point of view, there is no basis for why slavery is wrong at all. An atheist might contend that no one wants to be a slave but that's not a reason for why it ought to be abolished. At this late hour, that's all I have energy to write...their are certainly more resources. Here is one helpful link addressing the conquest of Canaan. http://www.reasonabl...ites-re-visited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 So much for monotheism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D-Money Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I don't really want to get into the slavery argument, as I already went deep into that in the God Thread. However, when making critical moral judgments of laws governing ancient societies, many people commit presentism (applying modern views of morality to the past). Also, it would be assanine to assume that we have all the facts surrounding each law, and that it was understood and applied the same way we read it today, 3500 years later, in a completely different language... But yeah, back to the topic at hand. Religion and politics should not mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heretic Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 +1 - that's gold. I believe in what the bible says about God and Christ, and it makes quite clear that they are separate, unique persons. I guess in this respect, you and I are alike, because I can't understand why any Christian could seriously look at that doctrine and believe it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Ambien Posted May 25, 2012 Share Posted May 25, 2012 I don't really want to get into the slavery argument, as I already went deep into that in the God Thread. However, when making critical moral judgments of laws governing ancient societies, many people commit presentism (applying modern views of morality to the past). Also, it would be assanine to assume that we have all the facts surrounding each law, and that it was understood and applied the same way we read it today, 3500 years later, in a completely different language... But yeah, back to the topic at hand. Religion and politics should not mix. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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