Canucks to retire Pavel Bure's #10 this season

[nuck nit]

Gotta love Pavel telling Tikhonov and the Canucks both to take a hike.

[JE14]

Fortunately it has nothing to do with your opinion... because if your opinion is one that the Canucks wouldn't be here without Bure, your opinion has about as much value as a warm bucket of hamster poop. Almost a decade as team captain is way more important to a franchise than scoring some pretty highlight reel goals... which Nazzy did a lot of as well.

I don't discredit Bure and I think his number should be retired but your arguement against Naslund not being worthy would point the finger squarely on Bure and him not being worthy... so give it a rest.

And as this team captain did he actually lead his team anywhere? Nope. Never made it past the second round with him as the captain yet people call the Sedins chokers. Taking his captaincy out of the statement(cause he clearly didn`t lead the team anywhere as a captain) means it`s about points for Naslund. If Naslund deserves to get in based off of points then Tanti, Gradin and Bert should get in cause they have higher PPGs. Tanti has a higher PPG, GPG, hat-tricks, game winning goals per game, powerplay goals per game.

[nuck nit]

Why not just be happy for him?

No sweat off anybody's back to honor him.

Not like a jersey in a rafter is going to hurt anyone or cause them to be less loved.

I don't get what the complaining does when it is just hockey and Pavel was amongst the very best in the game.

Pavel rocks.

[Aladeen]

And as this team captain did he actually lead his team anywhere? Nope. Never made it past the second round with him as the captain yet people call the Sedins chokers. Taking his captaincy out of the statement(cause he clearly didn`t lead the team anywhere as a captain) means it`s about points for Naslund. If Naslund deserves to get in based off of points then Tanti, Gradin and Bert should get in cause they have higher PPGs. Tanti has a higher PPG, GPG, hat-tricks, game winning goals per game, powerplay goals per game.

And Bure as never being Captain led the Canucks where exactly? It must have slipped my mind all the Cups Bure brought to Vancouver and all the Conn Smythe Trophies that decorate his trophy room.

You don't just take 8 years of being Captain out of the conversation because it is inconvienent to your already pathetically weak arguments.

Naslund was captain longer than Bure was actually a Canuck... that should be a little bit of perspective for you there.

Edit: your point about Tanti Gradin and Bert just means if Bure is getting in on the fact he put up numbers then by your own logic if you want to include Bure you have to retire all those guys too . So suck it up cause you're WRONG... and that is why Naslund's jersey is retired and was retired the season after he retired.

[JE14]

And Bure as never being Captain led the Canucks where exactly? It must have slipped my mind all the Cups Bure brought to Vancouver and all the Conn Smythe Trophies that decorate his trophy room.

You don't just take 8 years of being Captain out of the conversation because it is inconvienent to your already pathetically weak arguments.

Naslund was captain longer than Bure was actually a Canuck... that should be a little bit of perspective for you there.

Naslund consistently led the team nowhere as a captain. Without Bure there would be no 94 run. From the double OT goal against Calgary to the 31 points in the playoffs(next Nuck had 19) he was an amazing talent and was the best player to ever don a Canucks uniform for the majority of his career and I believe he is one of the few(if not the only) HHOF inductees to mainly play his career in Vancouver. And to your point about "pathetically weak arguments" at least I'm not the one who has to stoop down to insult somebody else just because they have a different opinion than yourself. Being a captain is not a solid reason to be put into the rafters. By your logic Boudrais, Kurtenbach, Lever, Quinn, Messier and many others should be in the rafters.

Edit: Just seen your edit and you're not the smartest are you? Inability to comprehend simplistic sentences should set you back to the second grade. I was comparing Naslund's inferior stats to superior stats of other Canucks but if you want to include Bure in on that than Bure crushes all four of those players in the categories I provided.

[Heretic]

Naslund consistently led the team nowhere as a captain. Without Bure there would be no 94 run. From the double OT goal against Calgary to the 31 points in the playoffs(next Nuck had 19) he was an amazing talent and was the best player to ever don a Canucks uniform for the majority of his career and I believe he is one of the few(if not the only) HHOF inductees to mainly play his career in Vancouver. And to your point about "pathetically weak arguments" at least I'm not the one who has to stoop down to insult somebody else just because they have a different opinion than yourself. Being a captain is not a solid reason to be put into the rafters. By your logic Boudrais, Kurtenbach, Lever, Quinn, Messier and many others should be in the rafters.

Edit: Just seen your edit and you're not the smartest are you? Inability to comprehend simplistic sentences should set you back to the second grade. I was comparing Naslund's inferior stats to superior stats of other Canucks but if you want to include Bure in on that than Bure crushes all four of those players in the categories I provided.

Double OT goal against Calgary?

If he was so great as you're saying he was, then why did we even get to double OT?

Did he not dress for the game and just show up when double OT started?

By your reasoning, Burrows is a shoe in as well.

Sorry, the 94 run was a team effort - not because of Bure.

If it was just Bure, then why didn't we make the playoffs every year he was with us?

Why? Because it's a team sport and it takes a big team effort to win a cup.

Also, it was pointed out earlier, Linden had 25 points and as an aside, McLean had 4 shutouts.

BTW, he played 7 seasons with the Canucks and 7 seasons elsewhere - that's 50/50 not majority.

[Blackberries]

Double OT goal against Calgary?

If he was so great as you're saying he was, then why did we even get to double OT?

Did he not dress for the game and just show up when double OT started?

By your reasoning, Burrows is a shoe in as well.

Sorry, the 94 run was a team effort - not because of Bure.

If it was just Bure, then why didn't we make the playoffs every year he was with us?

Why? Because it's a team sport and it takes a big team effort to win a cup.

Also, it was pointed out earlier, Linden had 25 points and as an aside, McLean had 4 shutouts.

BTW, he played 7 seasons with the Canucks and 7 seasons elsewhere - that's 50/50 not majority.

#####################################

488 games: That's how many NHL games he was dressed as a Canuck.

278 games: That's how many NHL games he was dressed as a Panther or Ranger.

Pavel Bure is a Canuck.

#####################################

From TOmapleleafs earlier in this thread.

[JE14]

Double OT goal against Calgary?

If he was so great as you're saying he was, then why did we even get to double OT?

Did he not dress for the game and just show up when double OT started?

By your reasoning, Burrows is a shoe in as well.

Sorry, the 94 run was a team effort - not because of Bure.

If it was just Bure, then why didn't we make the playoffs every year he was with us?

Why? Because it's a team sport and it takes a big team effort to win a cup.

Also, it was pointed out earlier, Linden had 25 points and as an aside, McLean had 4 shutouts.

BTW, he played 7 seasons with the Canucks and 7 seasons elsewhere - that's 50/50 not majority.

428 games here, 223 games in Florida, 51 in New York. That is a major majority(and that's not even counting the 60 playoff games here and only four elsewhere).

I'm done here. Like my earlier post said I have an opinion and so do other people. Keep it at that.

[Aladeen]

31 points in the playoffs(next Nuck had 19)

By your logic Boudrais, Kurtenbach, Lever, Quinn, Messier and many others should be in the rafters.

in the categories I provided.

here are three points that sum up your assinine concept of why Naslund's Jersey shouldn't be retired

Linden had 25... so that shows you can't even google properly.

How many of those players you mentioned were Captain for 8 years? how many? From your previous statement I bet you think all of them were.

Yah Categories YOU provided.... please show me where these Categories of yours are the sole basis for jersey retirement.

Naslund has more points, more assists, more hat-tricks, more powerplay points, in an era where we saw points drop dramatically league-wide.

During the peak of Bure's era, Gretzky, Lemieux, Jagr were putting up disgusting and ridiculous points, this era was the golden time for point production. So if you want to take out points for Naslund fine but the same must be done for Bure... where does that leave Bure then? What did he do in the Community exactly cause the amazing charitable contributions by Naslund in and around Vancouver ecspecially with children were well documented.

Finally I THINK Bure's Jersey SHOULD BE Retired.... So I am NOT against it. It's obvious you're the one that is insecure with his Jersey being retired that you feel the need to attack Naslund and dismiss all that he has done for this organization. Grow up

Apparently for you, where a Captain leads their team in the playoffs is all that matters to jersey retirement, well Bure was never Captain and never won the Cup so your own arguement excludes Bure from jersey retirement.

The bottom line is Nazzy's Jersey is retired so MANY MANY MANY people disagree with you.

And if you think that last post was insulting you, you best stay off the internet, as your senses are way way too delicate.

I bet you weren't even around for the Bure era, I bet you have only seen highlights and have looked at his stats. You think the Canucks not making it far it the playoffs was all on Naslund? Naslund never had the benefit of a Goalie like McLean or Luongo. I was there and it wasn't Naslund's lack of leadership that was the reason the Canucks didn't advance in the playoffs during his tenure as captain, it was the horribly inconsistent goaltending.

[Aladeen]

And to your point about "pathetically weak arguments" at least I'm not the one who has to stoop down to insult somebody else just because they have a different opinion than yourself.

Edit: Just seen your edit and you're not the smartest are you? Inability to comprehend simplistic sentences should set you back to the second grade.

Oh that's irony at it's sweetest

[JE14]

Oh that's irony at it's sweetest

Oh,* its* sweetest.*

[Aladeen]

Oh,* its* sweetest.*

HAHAHA you know you're losing an argument when you have to pick out grammar/spelling mistakes on a hockey fourm. ROFL it's sooo pathetic... you're a riot.. I can't wait to see your next post.

[Erik Karlsson]

His .623 goals-per-game average ranks fifth all-time among 
NHL players with 200-or-more goals

[Heretic]

428 games here, 223 games in Florida, 51 in New York. That is a major majority(and that's not even counting the 60 playoff games here and only four elsewhere).

He played 14 seasons in the NHL, 7 here and 7 elsewhere. 50/50.

Though technically, I guess it was 7 seasons here, then he refused to play, and more than halfway through the 98/99 season was traded to the panthers...okay, so we now have 7 seasons here and 6 1/2 elsewhere - so I retract, he did spend the majority of his time here...by a narrow margin when it comes to seasons...but should have played more...

Here's an interesting article about him just before he go into the HHOF

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Pavel+Bure+adored+Vancouver+Russian+Rocket+reluctant+return+love/7527407/story.html

[pimpcurtly]

He played 14 seasons in the NHL, 7 here and 7 elsewhere. 50/50.

Though technically, I guess it was 7 seasons here, then he refused to play, and more than halfway through the 98/99 season was traded to the panthers...okay, so we now have 7 seasons here and 6 1/2 elsewhere - so I retract, he did spend the majority of his time here...by a narrow margin when it comes to seasons...but should have played more...

Here's an interesting article about him just before he go into the HHOF

http://www.vancouversun.com/sports/Pavel+Bure+adored+Vancouver+Russian+Rocket+reluctant+return+love/7527407/story.html

Just throwing another article out there....

The Province

Wed Jan 20 1999

Page: A52 / FRONT

Section: Sports

Byline: Tony Gallagher

Column: Tony Gallagher

Dateline: NEW YORK

Source: The Province

NEW YORK — Pavel Bure’s reasons for leaving the Canucks began accumulating before he’d even arrived in Vancouver.

Upon arrival in New York to join the Florida Panthers after his Sunday trade from the Canucks, Bure finally sat down to outline his reasons for wanting to leave.

He was convinced to do so only because he wants Canucks fans to know his reasons had nothing to do with the city, the people or even the rain. In one discussion, he detailed years of pent-up frustration over the silence he’s maintained. The litany of neglect from Canucks management seems almost too absurd for words.

For starters, he first asked to be traded in 1993, five years and three months ago. But by far the most significant reason for wanting to leave came when, he said, somebody in Vancouver management made up a story that Bure threatened to withdraw his services during the ’94 playoff run to the Cup final.

“Somebody from management planted that story,” said Bure.

“They said I threatened not to play and it really pissed me off.

“It’s a lie,” said Bure with steel in his eyes. “I don’t want to say who did it because I don’t want to say what I don’t know. But I know one thing: I was promised to be traded. The contract was done before the playoffs even started. Ron (Bure’s former agent Salcer) agreed with Pat (former GM Quinn) before Calgary. But the story was put out all over and by the time it was denied by Pat Quinn and everybody else, it was too late. It looked like a cover-up.”

While Bure would in no way even indicate whom he thought it might be, reason would indicate it was either then-acting assistant GM George McPhee or then-owner Arthur Griffiths. Quinn has indicated to some insiders he was led to believe Bure had threatened to withdraw his services by “my guy” but now says privately and publicly it never happened.

“At that point I just decided to get out for good,” said Bure.

“It’s just not the way you should do business.”

While it might be best to outline Bure’s reasons for leaving in order of significance, we have chosen to start from the beginning in order to convey the cumulative effect. And so best to begin when he first left Russia and landed in L.A., where he stayed at Salcer’s house.

“I was down there for two weeks before (Canucks management) showed up,” Bure said. “It was really hard. I thought they’d be waiting for me when I got there but there was nobody. I’d heard all this about how badly they wanted me and then I’m down there wondering what’s going on. Then they finally send down Brian (Burke). We have a quick lunch and then it’s another 10 days before they have me fly to San Jose to meet the rest of the guys.”

The club was waiting to settle a court case with the Russian Red Army team that had Bure under contract. The Canucks ended up buying out those rights for $250,000. Bure had to chip in $50,000 of it out of his first contract to pay off the Russians.

“In my first year they admitted my first contract ($600,000 Cdn) was not enough, but when we went to talk about it they said, `Hold on, you have to play a little bit more. You have to prove it to us’.”

This started a long, torturous period of stonewalling by the Canucks on a new deal, which led to Bure’s first request to be traded in November of 1993.

After 17 months of negotiation, a five-year, $14.7-million contract — almost identical to the ones Sergei Fedorov and Alex Mogilny were signing in Detroit and Buffalo at the time — was agreed upon.

Or at least Bure thought.

When he sat down to sign it, he found the Canucks had put everything in Canadian funds when in fact Fedorov and Mogilny were getting U.S. funds. No NHL star ever signs a Canadian-funds deal and the Canucks knew this.

“I was really happy with that contract. I would have been happy to sign that deal (in U.S. dollars). But then I finished the season with another 60 goals. And the market was going up.”

“About two months later, when I was starting slowly, they (most likely McPhee) told me, `You were lucky to get 60 goals,’ and that I would never do it again. They told me I’d be lucky to get 30 again. I told them, `Forget about the contract, just trade me. You don’t trust me, just trade me.’ ”

"After that they said, `Sorry, let’s start a whole new relationship.’ But then (before he’d even signed the new contract) I’m already hearing how I threatened not to play in the playoffs.”

When a $25-million-US, five-year deal with staggering bonuses was finally agreed upon before the ’94 playoffs, it was executed just before Game 3 of the final against the Rangers in Vancouver. Quinn apparently was not present at the signing. Bure refused to sign without Quinn there. Quinn was told of this and came in.

“I just felt like he didn’t want to give me that contract and I really didn’t want the contract.

“I asked for a trade, don’t give me a contract! Ronnie said to sign the contract, but I had asked for a trade before that.”

“Part of the signing bonus was due on execution of the contract, but they were three months late. I didn’t get any money until September.”

"I specifically asked Ron to put in (the new deal) that I was to get paid (if there was a lockout) because I thought there probably would be one. And the contract is pretty clear that I was to get paid.

“But they refused.”

Bure remained out of training camp after the lockout for five days, but was talked into going back after the Canucks agreed to negotiate. Quinn claimed he was told by the league not to pay guaranteed contracts until it was settled for all NHL players. But the issue dragged on and on and Bure became increasingly steamed.

“I didn’t want to sue the team. I didn’t think it would be proper to sue the team you were playing for.”

Bure was owed $1.7 million US under the terms of the deal, but after agent Mike Gillis became his agent, he managed to get $1 million of it paid.

“I finally got part of that money three years later.”

Before last season Bure met with Quinn and said that after his two seasons of injury maybe he would get an extra push if he was to be traded. Quinn told him he didn’t want to trade him, but if that’s what he wanted, he would.

Quinn then asked him to get playing well so the club could get market value for him, but 20 games into the season Quinn was fired.

“Every time I asked to be traded, they always agreed to. Nobody ever said, `We’re not going to trade you.’ But they always lied. They never did.”

Enter Mike Keenan. It was at this point Bure said he reconsidered the request quietly to himself because he liked the way Iron Mike was running the show. He was playing 27 or 28 minutes a night and loved it. But he decided there had been too much water under the bridge to turn back.

“I can tell you honestly I had no problem with Mike whatsoever and I loved to play for him. He was the coach and general manager at that time and I had 39 goals and a big bonus for 50. He called me in the office and said, `Listen, don’t worry about 50 goals. I’ll get you 50. I’ll help you to do it.’ And he was the general manager. I really like Mike.

He claims Keenan’s style didn’t bother him much and shrugged off the “you little suck” name-calling incident the coach engaged in during a game in Ottawa last season.

“That didn’t bother me,” Bure said.

“I played for (Viktor) Tikhonov so that was nothing.”

However Keenan did trade his friend Gino Odjick, which was by this time, the icing on the icing of the cake.

[Heretic]

Just throwing another article out there....

Yes, I read that today as well, just proves that there are 3 sides to every story, theirs, his, and the truth.

The really important thing is that it appears the Canucks and Bure have made up and Bure's jersey is being retired.

[nuck nit]

Nah,the real important thing is Pavel stood up for himself and Gillis helped him.

Pavel also told Tikhonov to shove it.

[Mustapha]

Clearly you don't fully understand the impact Bure had on the Canucks organization.

He inspired a generation of young Canucks fans. He was our first real superstar, and helped make Vancouver the legitimate hockey market that it is.

One player does have that power, and he deserves to be recognized for it.

I never had a problem with Bure's jersey being retired. Naslund on the other hand...well I know some people don't agree with me, but I think Nazzy is a 'Ring of Honour' player.

[Baggins]

Very surprised to see two guys (Heretic and Baggins) that I generally find myself agreeing with their posts can't wrap their heads around Bure. Literally the most talented Canuck of all time and certainly the most electrifying. His legacy as a Canuck is only tarnished by the treatment he received from management. Had they not conducted bait & switch strategies with his contract he would have likely finished his career here.

He deserves the rafters and he's getting it. People are entitled to their opinions but greater hockey minds and the owners of our organization have made a decision. Live with it and embrace it like a fan should.

Sorry but I don't need to waive the pompoms over every decision.

I haven't seen anybody question Bure's talent at all. But I don't see talent alone as a reason to retire a players number.

MG, his former agent, has said "the entire story has never been told". I've always taken Bure's "coming clean" after his trade to Florida with a grain of salt because there is always two sides to any conflict of this type. Answer this, if Bure holding out and demanding a trade was because of how he was treated here why did he wait until all those bad boys were gone? Griffiths, Quinn, Burke, were all gone when he announced he wouldn't play again in Vancouver. As a matter of fact Keenan, who Bure said he loved, was both GM and coach at the time. Sorry but I'm not buying what he's selling on that one as the timing makes no sense.

But his constant contract issues has nothing at all to do with my opinion on this. I simply don't think he has a substantial enough contribution to the organization to warrant receiving it's highest honour. It lowers the bar in my opinion.

[Canuck or Die]

Well, I for one am glad to see #10 will be going to the rafters where it belongs. All the haters can suck it!