adniel_g Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 Edler has A LOT of value. Booth is garbage. There are definitely teams that would b takers on the Sedins/Kesler. If we are waiting on the Horvat/Shink regime, we might as well get younger=mini rebuild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adniel_g Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 hay. don't diss the rod. that green rod has more parades than gillis ever had lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adniel_g Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 His hands are tied, We don't have any significant pieces or cap space to make any major moves, I'd wait til' closer to the deadline when teams start falling off (hopefully not us) to make any major moves, even then I'd be surprised if he does anything drastic. The way I see it is that Gillis is going to stand pat and probably even wait til' next season when the Horvat/Shink regime begins..because let's face it, other teams don't want our garbage as much as we don't want their garbage, Edler, Booth so far = garbage. We are going to be better off as sellers at the deadline. We don't have a ghost of a chance at the cup this year. We just need too much to be contenders... a second line, a fourth line, a #1 dman. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spook007 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Think its fair to say it is such a fine line between success and failure ie being a good GM or a bad one. Had AV coached the nux to the stanley cup in 11 everybody would have hailed MG as the all time best GM... AV didn't and MG isn't... Very few of the contacts handed out were contradicted by fans at the time... loss of form make it look like over payments, but besides Edler who else's contract did CDC moan about... Except a few (who by the law of average always eventually will be right)... Only really big issue is the NTC's, but guess real question is would the players say goodbye to Vancouver if they didn't get an NTC. Was Burke / Nonis great GM's? Seen the discussions here several times and still a big split amongst the fans. Yeah hindsight is a wonderful thing... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Well everyone does not form the consensus, the players results do. And no I am not trying to hold it against him at all. I think the Booth trade and all his other actions, i.e. Hodgson had reasons to be done and we will never know, but no matter what their result he at least tried. The past couple of years have been a total mess. He was forced into the Schneider trade and hasn't taken any significant action outside of it. I am holding his inaction against him. Every trade has risk and is a gamble, cannot fully blame any GM for that. But not wanting to make a move when it's clear this team needs a move? It would be counter productive for MG to not try and improve the team. Pretty sure part of the job is getting on the phone and making 29 cold calls a month. I think Gillis, so far, falls in the good, but not great, GM category. Honest question that I've asked before to the 'Fire Gillis!' crowd, who would you choose to replace him? I think we've already got one of the leading candidates in Gilman, but then you have to expect that the 'process' wouldn't change to any great degree. My other two picks would be Botterill in Pittsburgh and Fenton in Nashville. Unless Holland or Bowman become available MG is the guy. I tend to suspect that if we had a list of every single thing MG has done ie: trade, contract negotiation, player let go to free agency etc. and then voted good/bad deal on each act MG has done as GM he probably bats .700. IMHO not many GMs in the league would score that high. MG gets blasted because of basically 4 deals (Ballard, Booth, Schneider and Hodgson). What if the Backes offer sheet went through? There would have been no Steve Bernier. What if Luc Bourdon was still on the team? No Ballard trade. What if we knew the whole Hodgson story? (is he high maintenance? did he ask for a trade? etc.) What if we knew the whole Lu trade story? (did Burke get canned because he wanted Lu? did Lu veto a trade to the Leafs? etc.) What if Booth wasn't Salo V2? How would you feel about MGs work then? Seems like there are a few coinflips in there and not MG being a raging idiot like some here suggest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Light Racicot Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I highly doubt any of us could do better than MG. That doesn't matter in the slightest. All that really matters is how Gillis compares to the other 29 GMs. Not good over the last couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaches Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 That doesn't matter in the slightest. All that really matters is how Gillis compares to the other 29 GMs. Not good over the last couple years. Lots of CDC users are like "MG YOU SUCK I COULD DO BETTER ID DO BLOCKBUSTER DEALS AFTER EACH LOSS". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucks4sure Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Peaches I hate the"none of us are as good as Gillis" line.Comparing us to gillis is like comparing the results of a cat in a greyhound race.But comparing Mg's abilities to the other 29 dogs in the race is ligitimate.He would be close to last and in my opinion based on this team,Lu's treatment,his nothing for schneider trade(I call it that because we don't know the pick will actually be anything as where he could have made a trade for a bonifide nhl player)and a volitile head coach that should wait for the dressing room to call out a player,he would be dead last..Doing it in front of fans and tv and the opposing team is disrespectful.Do it a few times and you have a player that will disrespect his coach.But I digress.To all that use the line that we are not gms so stop trying,we just compare him to the trades other gms seem to make.LA the year they won the cup is a prime example.We aren't comparing peaches to plums but rather peaches to peaches here poster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peaches Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Peaches I hate the"none of us are as good as Gillis" line.Comparing us to gillis is like comparing the results of a cat in a greyhound race.But comparing Mg's abilities to the other 29 dogs in the race is ligitimate.He would be close to last and in my opinion based on this team,Lu's treatment,his nothing for schneider trade(I call it that because we don't know the pick will actually be anything as where he could have made a trade for a bonifide nhl player)and a volitile head coach that should wait for the dressing room to call out a player,he would be dead last..Doing it in front of fans and tv and the opposing team is disrespectful.Do it a few times and you have a player that will disrespect his coach.But I digress.To all that use the line that we are not gms so stop trying,we just compare him to the trades other gms seem to make.LA the year they won the cup is a prime example.We aren't comparing peaches to plumbs but rather peaches to peaches here poster. I get that, and it's not everyone, but the core anti-Gillis group seems to think they are much more capable of GM'ing this team then Gillis is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adniel_g Posted December 1, 2013 Author Share Posted December 1, 2013 Say what you want about Burke, the Leafs are having success now because of what he did. He has balls, he turns franchises around, looks like he won the Kessel trade which he was initially heavily criticized for Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remy Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I hope all of you remember that the cap went down this year. And last year there was a lockout. So those of you criticizing MG, just put it into perspective, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimberWolf Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Okay, so which are you all willing to lose for some short term help? Bo or Hunter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
canucksnihilist Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Okay, so which are you all willing to lose for some short term help? Bo or Hunter? exactly. might as well give up our upcoming 1st round pick - that's what I would do if I were out to save my job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sam13371337 Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 I highly doubt any of us could do better than MG. nobody I asking for average CDC members to become GM one of the most ridiculous arguments used to Defend MG.. how about an experienced/ COMPETENT hockey mind?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hunter.S-Kerouac Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 If he were to be canned at the end of the season, he'll have left the new GM with an aging core of players all past their prime and all with NTC's, surrounded by a bottom 9 of mostly plugs, an overhyped overpaid defence, and an aging goalie past his prime that doesn't want to be here, but has a contract that sucks. He's a terrible GM, and the deals he's made in the last year and a half have set this team back years. Or you could say. The 2 most durable elite forwards in the game locked up for over a mill each under market value. A prospect pool that is very strong down the middle and has several players ready to make the jump in the near future. A defense that will be one of the best bargains in the league as the cap rises. And some youth in Corrado Stanten and Tanev and like his contract or not Luo has been consistently a top ten goalie in the league every year he has been here and shows no sign of that changing soon. Are they aged? Maybe yes so are the redwings the key is to surround your young guns with veterans and develop them into the future core. Then surround them with the support pieces when its time for them to break out. We will be fine as long as MG can resist the temptation of a rental player for another cup run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salacious Crumb Posted December 1, 2013 Share Posted December 1, 2013 Say what you want about Burke, the Leafs are having success now because of what he did. He has balls, he turns franchises around, looks like he won the Kessel trade which he was initially heavily criticized for Looks like he won the Kessel trade? This year Seguin has 23 pts and Kessel has 24. They are both basically 6', 200 lbs. Kessel is 26 and Seguin is 21. Neither is overly physical, both have near identical +/- and toi. Arguably Seguin is better than Kessel already and then the other pick ended up being Dougie Hamilton (20 year old defenceman with 3 goals, 4 assists and +8 for Boston this year). Burkie pulled off great deals for Pronger back in the day and the Sedins. The Kessel trade will follow him around like an albatross. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Or you could say. The 2 most durable elite forwards in the game locked up for over a mill each under market value. A prospect pool that is very strong down the middle and has several players ready to make the jump in the near future. A defense that will be one of the best bargains in the league as the cap rises. And some youth in Corrado Stanten and Tanev and like his contract or not Luo has been consistently a top ten goalie in the league every year he has been here and shows no sign of that changing soon. Are they aged? Maybe yes so are the redwings the key is to surround your young guns with veterans and develop them into the future core. Then surround them with the support pieces when its time for them to break out. We will be fine as long as MG can resist the temptation of a rental player for another cup run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shazzam Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 It's easy to throw Gillis under the bus now for the Booth trade, but at the time he made the trade everyone around here was talking about how we robbed Florida 'again'..no one thought things would be working out they way they are, and, in hindsight from what I understand, Gillis consulted with Kesler about acquiring Booth, guess that was a mistake. no, not everyone. It was a huge risk acquiring booth given his concussion history. Oddly enough his injuries with us are not concussion related. It was a cap dump for Florida, they even threw in a 4th rounder and we got stuck with contact Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
I'm Your Huckleberry Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 I think Gillis has received a lot of unfair criticism. It is not his fault that the league decided to change the way the game was called, after he built a very competitive team. He built the team for "the new NHL", based on skill and speed. The league then changed how the game was called and he has had to adjust. However, it is impossible to just adjust on the fly. He can't instantly and dramatically change the core of this team. He has to work with what he had previously built. On top of this, is the new CBA. Vancouver has spent to the cap ceiling every year to ice a top team so when the new CBA rolled around Gillis had to shed a ton of salary for this season. Not to mention that it handcuffed him in the goalie situation. There are always going to be ups and downs for a franchise from season to season. Given that this team is still figuring out a new system under a new coach, in a transitional year (everybody knew they wouldn't be as competitive this year because they had to shed so much salary), yet still managing to play some pretty good hockey, I would say Gillis has done a fine job. Add in the fact that he had a very strong 2013 draft, it is hard not to be optimistic about the upswing this franchise will see in the next few years. Everybody likes to make a ruckus and try to lynch a scapegoat (hindsight is a major issue here) when things get tough. If you learn to relax, see the big picture, and just take the game for what is (entertainment), you'll have a much more enjoyable experience. *Gillis has my Official Manatee Vote of Approval* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
van_ws Posted December 2, 2013 Share Posted December 2, 2013 Mike Gillis deserves all of the criticism, it is completely justified. He is a terrible GM, no way to defend him at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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