Baka Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Nobody has yet stood up and said what they would pay for Yandle, Bouwmeester, Shattenkirk, Hedman or Seabrook as these are comparable D men. I am sure making proposals for all of them woul;d have every pick or prospect in our system flying off the shelves, yet Edler isn`t worth a 2 way center.... So if Edler played for some other team and he was offered for Kesler even if you didn't take it for other reasons you would consider it fair value wise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 You're overvaluing Edler and undervaluing O'Reilly. The Av's learned their lesson with Erik Johnson. Didn't the Avs also learn their lesson with Stastny, signing him to that big contract early? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Edler was good a few years ago, but how do you explain the last 2 seasons where he's been absolute crap. If past seasons meant anything to teams, then Heatley would have been traded for an allstar like Toews by now. The fact that Edler has 10 points in 30 games and is a -13 on a winning team playing the most minutes is unacceptable and pure crap. Will his career rebound? Who knows, but Colorado isn't giving up a 22 year old Patrice Bergeron to find out. That depends on what you mean, by absolute crap. If Edler has been absolute crap for 2 years, than how does a Dion Phaneuf, who's been crap his whole career, get a 6.5M contract extension. It's just physical presence, and Edler has the same physical presence, except he's less vocal and doesn't fight. Edler is better than Phaneuf in every aspect of the game. That's why Edler has value. If Colorado is moving ROR, and it's premature to say he's a Patrice Bergeron, it's going to be Edler, or they'll look at other options. They won't be interested in any other defense man on the Canucks team, and that's why Edler's name is quick to be brought up. Lots of people are undervaluing Edler, but most of them, are guys who don't pay attention to the hockey, and just focus on the canucks. you look at the whole league, and Edler is right up there in the top 20 defense man category. A lot of highly praised defense man, league wide aren't good defensively and make Edler look great, in comparison. It's the flash, that GM's crave. That Anaheim game a few nights ago, where Edler just man handles Perry for the first 5 minutes of the game. That's what GMs want and there are so few players in the league with Edler's package. Size, offense ability, physical presence. He has, all the tools everyone wants. Again, It's not like Del Zotto, where you watch Del Zotto, and he has absolutely nothing that stands out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejejester Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Agreed on pretty much all counts, but thought I'd reiterate this in particular as a point I brought up earlier. There are plenty of people to laud guys like Karlsson and Subban, as well as Byfuglien and even Doughty, but are quick to tear down Edler as a defensive nightmare. He's not even the worst defensive player on this team out of our top 4, and all of those stars I just mentioned have significantly higher turnovers and giveaway/takeaway ratios than Edler does. Edler is having an off year compared to his usual standards offensively, but that doesn't suddenly make him less valuable. I do see some merit in moving a defenceman for offensive help in the forwards, and Edler is a great piece if he wants to waive (particularly if there's worry he doesn't fit with Tort's system, although I don't think that's the case), but we aren't just going to give pieces like him away. Ding Ding Ding CDC only watches and hates on edler. Having those guys on their team every night would drive them even more nuts. There are 29 GMS just hoping that a top 4 D like edler comes available, pair him with a RHD like erhoff or Salo, and elder is at his best again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Edler was good a few years ago, but how do you explain the last 2 seasons where he's been absolute crap. If past seasons meant anything to teams, then Heatley would have been traded for an allstar like Toews by now. The fact that Edler has 10 points in 30 games and is a -13 on a winning team playing the most minutes is unacceptable and pure crap. Will his career rebound? Who knows, but Colorado isn't giving up a 22 year old Patrice Bergeron to find out. By last 2 seasons you mean last seasons half season which is no indication of anything at all really and this season where everyone was adjusting to a new coach and then he got suspended and then he came back and then he got hurt, so this season where he has had little time to play but has still put up ok points for the actual games he's played, hasn't had half as many turn overs as people believe, has more take aways than most of our D core, plays more tough minutes than anyone not named hamhuis and leads others in most categories for time played? This is his first real off year and there are obvious and glaring reasons for it. Heatly 4 or 5 years ago for Toews? Ya pre cup win for Toews and midst of 50 goal seasons for Heater I am sure it would have been considered. Again though, you're not giving anything up. You're just tearing down Edler and not saying what he is worth. RoR Patrice Bergeron? Huh...since his only 2 good season came with monster minutes on the top line and one of those seasons is currently being played right now I think that is a shade premature. When in comparison even on Edlers worst year to date he is still on pace for more than 30 points as a D man in a more defensive system after being injured and suspended. So come on man, give us more than he's bad because he's bad. What IS he worth? I gave solid comparables stats etc. I need more than opinion and one single off year to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 So if Edler played for some other team and he was offered for Kesler even if you didn't take it for other reasons you would consider it fair value wise? No i wouldn't because we don't need more D, we need scoring. Value for Value player deals Flo. At this time I also wouldn't take Shattenkirk, Yandle, Seabrook or any of the other D men that are comparable that mentioned because that is not our need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rey Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 We should keep throwing out defense man, just for people to have an idea. Matt Carle, got a 5.5M AAV contract, long term contract. Carle is half the player Edler is... Carle gets 5.5M, because he can skate. defensively sucks, offensive hasn't been good, not physical at all. Edler looks pretty damn good in comparisons to Carle. It's not whether or not, you like him or not. It's how the NHL league wide values him, and you compare him to every other defense man, making 5M+. Considering, Edler's tools, age, and the contract. Teams will be lining up. Only the idiots, who would propose trading Edler for garbage. He's close or equal value with ROR. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Ding Ding Ding CDC only watches and hates on edler. Having those guys on their team every night would drive them even more nuts. There are 29 GMS just hoping that a top 4 D like edler comes available, pair him with a RHD like erhoff or Salo, and elder is at his best again Or, more specifically, they watch Edler in detail and see highlights of the other defencemen around the league. Ignorance of other player's faults and overemphasis on Edler's make for a very poor evaluation of him in comparison to the rest of the league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Or, more specifically, they watch Edler in detail and see highlights of the other defencemen around the league. Ignorance of other player's faults and overemphasis on Edler's make for a very poor evaluation of him in comparison to the rest of the league. We'd be lucky to get raymond ballard and a 2nd for him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockNroLLa. Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Kes + for Weber Edler for ROR Burrows Schroeder and a 3rd for MAtt Moulson and Steve Ott Higgins Jensen Lack Shink for Kane Luongo and second for Ryan Miller Sedin Sedin Kane Moulson ROR Ott Kassian Santorelli Hansen Sestito Richardson Dalphe Weber Hamhuis Tanev Stanton Garrison Bieksa Miller Ericsson Why they do this: Weber is expensive for a team like Predators and they love Kesler. They also have defensive depth. Kes would become the centerpiece to their offence lol and he is not too too expensive. Avs have been beat by us many a time, They probably see our top pairing Dman Edler is a stud lol. Edler is on a good contract and would fill their defence needs. ROR is also sorta expensive and going to be rfa Burrows for Matt Moulson is better than it sounds for the sabres..Moulson is going to be a ufa, whereas Burrows is signed to a good contract. He is also an experienced forward. Schroeder and a 3rd for Ott is a good deal for a team rebuliding. Kane is a problem for the Jets, eh? well we ll take him off their hands, gladly. With a nice young package with 3 great prospects and vertern roster players. Luongo and a second for Miller..well Lu is a starting goalie for team canada and that second would help a team in rebuild mode. while filling the goal-tending hole about to be left by miller. Just look at Edmonton they have crapty goal-tending and look how it affects the whole team morale and the development of their prospects. Lu would always give them a chance in the regular season. If you wanna know why we do any of these just ask, I ll reply, thanks. I know this is but a fantasy.. however its some what thereputic for a heartbroken nucks fan. Prospects we still have after all this: Horvat Gaunce Cassels Fox Hutton Corrado 2014 1st Cannata Grenier Welsh Bloomstrand Mallet Subban Lain Labate Friesen Archibald Blain Tommernes Mcnally Andersson, etc.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 ^ ... Edler was good a few years ago, but how do you explain the last 2 seasons where he's been absolute crap. If past seasons meant anything to teams, then Heatley would have been traded for an allstar like Toews by now. The fact that Edler has 10 points in 30 games and is a -13 on a winning team playing the most minutes is unacceptable and pure crap. Will his career rebound? Who knows, but Colorado isn't giving up a 22 year old Patrice Bergeron to find out. Do you mean the lockout season where he had 22 points and 77 hits in 45 games? So just over half as many games as his previous 82 game season where he had 49 points and 143 hits? Seems pretty good to me, since it projects out to another 40+ point and 140+ hit season. And that's not even getting into his blocks, giveaway/takeaway ratio, quality of competition, etc. Or just "watching him play" if you prefer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jejejester Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Or, more specifically, they watch Edler in detail and see highlights of the other defencemen around the league. Ignorance of other player's faults and overemphasis on Edler's make for a very poor evaluation of him in comparison to the rest of the league. Very true, I could make a high lights package to make elder look like the best D man in the league. But when people see him play every night and have an emotional attachment they tend to pick out his faults. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Very true, I could make a high lights package to make elder look like the best D man in the league. But when people see him play every night and have an emotional attachment they tend to pick out his faults. Maybe we should put together a high light package of the gaffs from kesler and the twins and Hamhuis over the last 13 games. I am sure all of a sudden they'd be worth less than nothing as well after Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If edler is indeed on the block, I would hope they aim a little higher than ROR......not that he isn't a good player, but I would be aiming for a winger with a little more size and grit to go along with the offense Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EagleShield Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If we trade Edler for ROR, it's the start of a couple of years of rebuilding. Window closed, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrChill Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If we trade Edler for ROR, it's the start of a couple of years of rebuilding. Window closed, etc. Disagree, Although I do believe if we get ROR it will probably be for Tanev+ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Standing_Tall#37 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 If we trade Edler for ROR, it's the start of a couple of years of rebuilding. Window closed, etc. good, because it already has and we're just doing the Calgary waivering/only fooling ourselves thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Kuze Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 edler plus (say hansen and a pick) for oreilly plus add in whatever i sneed to make it workdont even care if its a first because with horvat oreilly tanev corrado and stanton here we are starting to finally get younger. Kass will probably get 15 next year as well. Buy out booth sign Callahan Sedin Sedin Burr Callahan Kesler ROR Higgins Horvat Kassian Santo Richardson Sestito Top 9 is hard to play against and deep as hell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stawns Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 edler plus (say hansen and a pick) for oreilly plus add in whatever i sneed to make it workdont even care if its a first because with horvat oreilly tanev corrado and stanton here we are starting to finally get younger. Kass will probably get 15 next year as well. Buy out booth sign Callahan Sedin Sedin Burr Callahan Kesler ROR Higgins Horvat Kassian Santo Richardson Sestito Top 9 is hard to play against and deep as hell replace horvat with JS and you'd probably be pretty accurate. Horvat is likely 2 more years away, minimum. one more year in Jr and one in Utica Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elvis15 Posted January 18, 2014 Share Posted January 18, 2014 Maybe we should put together a high light package of the gaffs from kesler and the twins and Hamhuis over the last 13 games. I am sure all of a sudden they'd be worth less than nothing as well after Don't forget Bieksa and Garrison, even Tanev, or mostly anyone else for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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