Goat James Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 If we could get Ovi and Crosby we'd be set. S. Weber to solidify our D line. It still bums me out when I think of how close Pittsburgh were... It would have been so much fun to see them playing together... (Even if it'd mean that the Penguins would win multiple Cups... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dogbyte Posted February 5, 2014 Share Posted February 5, 2014 What does it mean when you post a topic that grows to 5 pages and you're only at a plus 1? YOUR THREAD SUCKS !!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icetime Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 hopefully the owners dump Gillis before he implements this hair brained scheme if he even has a scheme. Loved the Schneider "trade" what a genius. If he were trading stocks his account balance would be a zero in a day or two Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JelloIce Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 What does it mean when you post a topic that grows to 5 pages and you're only at a plus 1? It means the OP is excited for the wrong reasons and it makes him look dumb. This is BAD news not GOOD news. This does NOT mean Gillis is willing to go through a rebuild, that's NOT what Aquilini has given on his contract. It means he is willing to go all-in for a Stanley Cup. He is going to attempt to dry out the prospect pool and depth players for immediate impact players coming in to attempt to win a Cup either this year or next. He either succeeds and wins a cup and keeps his job in this attempt and is worshipped as a saint, or he's fired and never has to worry again about the organization he destroyed. Heck, I thought the OP was trolling! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peaches5 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 This is another example of Gillis's 'guarantee failure before you start' style of management. He is panics, and not being satisfied with that, he decides he'll make his panic official by announcing it to the entire league. He has just dropped the value of every member of this team by making this public. Instead of keeping calm and working behind the scenes, he comes out with this. I think he, like Tortorella, is looking to deflect the blame for the season onto the players, when in fact it is Gillis who is the core problem. Gillis created this team, he failed to acquire the players needed to complement the Sedin's playing style and now he is running for cover and trying to point fingers at anyone but himself. Another reason why the Aquilini's should end this guys association with the Canucks RIGHT NOW. This organization needs a new coach and new GM, not the two failures who are responsible for the problem. Your post makes no sense at all. You are saying that MG basically calling out the players saying that no one is safe except the Sedins is lowering their trade value? The only thing that has lowered their trade value are the FULL NTC's they have. This is pretty much the only thing MG can do is basically say look we don't care if we gave you a NTC we aren't winning your job is not secure here. This is just another reason why you don't give players FULL NTC's because really they can pick 1 or 2 teams and say I will only go here and you get nothing in return. How you've come about MG lowering their value by saying they are available makes little sense to me. The way I see it is like this we don't get any free agents here anyways, unless you want to overpay which MG has shown he will not do. So go to Burrows, Garrison, Edler (the players I think should be traded) and tell they to pick a list of teams if they refuse sit them until they change their minds. You aren't damaging your FA pool because we don't get any FA anyways. I would also trade Hansen and try to trade Booth but I don't see him going any where. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cabinessence Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 The real news would be if Gillis said he was not listening to offers. It's as bad as when Pratt says "...what we're hearing..." Who is we and from whom? Cue bass solo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icycold Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 So let me get this straight, Gillis is going to circumvent players NTC contracts and make them become tradebait? All this from Dreger at the Toronto Sports Network??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icycold Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Yes I'm down with trading anyone, but let's hire a real GM first Your for hire? so who would YOU hire? Honestly... Seriously, Gillis like any other "Prospect* is getting better and better with each year as anyone who gets into a new job and gets to know the job better. Thing is i believe there is no one better out there at the moment and why waste all the time he has spent learning. 2nd... this team is much better including prospects and depth, people seem to be thinking we're tanking but only because we hve been decimated by injuries lately and we're on a losing streak and resulting in panic in the fans and media. IF Gillis IS putting it out there for trades it does NOT means he's panicing and going to sell the farm. It can simply mean he's drumming up business just because of all the media attention but that doesn't mean he's going to sell and make bad deals by selling assets for nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian42 Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 _ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 It is perhaps an inconvenient truth that the other teams get a say in what they will give up. 1.) Where do you get the information that Detroit would be willing to trade Mantha and/or their 1st for Edler? I'm not saying that it wouldn't happen, just that it would surprise me if Detroit did give up that particular package, If they did give up either of those pieces then I would expect them to dumb down the value of the other part (eg. Mantha and a 2nd, and maybe another pick, or their 1st and a lesser value prospect). I suspect that Detroit would also want send back some caphit. 2.) I think you are being overly optimistic that the Canucks will get a top-5 in any deals. Why?: - Why would the Canuck players waive to go to a bottom feeder just to help out his old team? Luongo might, to go to Florida or TB. Any others? - Teams which get top-5 picks are usually rebuilding, unless they are like Boston from a few years ago where the 2nd overall fell into their lap from the Kessel deal (and a 9th overall the following year). A top-5 pick would likely be of much greater value to this rebuilding team. - I don't see these rebuilding teams wanting a player like Kesler (or Bieksa, Garrison, etc). His cap hit would be fairly high, and at his age (29) his career would mostly be over by the time rest of the team caught up. Kesler (et al) would be far more valuable to a contending team, so if a 2014 1st is part of the deal then expect it to be as low as 30th overall. - A team making a run for the Cup might also be willing to trade a top prospect (and or their 1st) for a quality veteran. This being said, these prospects are likely around the same quality of the guys which the Canucks have been drafting (ie. in the lower half of the last several drafts). I wouldn't be expecting a guy who is the next Ryan O'Reilly being made available. He's likely already part of the other team's core group which they need for their own Cup run. regards, G. If we Trade Edler to Detriot we better get Mantha back or I wont be too happy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5minutesinthebox Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Please , just give me a chance, I know what I am talking about. Nobody listened to me , then Tortorella says we look slow and are in trouble and was at a loss for words. Those that dont want it, just be open minded, I know people look at the oiler with 3 straight number 1s and get scared, but as I have said many times, thats why you start the process before its to late, if we can get 3 or more , you never know first rounders these next few drafts including last year , we will have accumulated more talent in a short span then the oilers all these years. We can be a fast young exciting team and win games like 6-2 5-1 . We can do it, I want to see young superstars put on that Vancouver jersey on draft day for the first time. I know we can be a Dynasty I know it. Dude, I dont even know what you are talking about anymore. A rebuild will not happen over night. Players with NTCs will only be moved if both sides agree. Luongo wont be moved if there isnt someone to take him, no matter how badly he wants out. The Oilers have had 5 top 10 picks and 3 number 1s in the last 6 years. Who in our lineup is getting us a number 1 pick? Nobody... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 The single biggest issue is MGs need to throw NTCs out there like candy. I hate them. They re so crippling to a team. The odd player here and there like Crosby, Ovechkin and the Sedins may have warranted a NTC in their contracts, but I think the Sedins are past that now and shouldn t get one. I like Burrows but he should ve never got one. Neither should ve Kesler, Bieksa, Edler and Garrison. Without the NTCs, MG would be in a strong position to make this club better. Unfortunately, now, he ll have to either fold to the players wants or keep the team as it is. He could use prospects and draft picks, but that would seem counter productive, given the apparent direction this team is about to take. I know, right? Stoopid players and their NTC's. Why can't they just learn to take less than their market value to play here, and not kick up a fuss if/when the Canucks want to trade them whenever they wanted? Damned inconvenient. Maybe slavery, or perhaps at the very least indentured servitude could be brought back. On the other hand, take a look back over these NTC deals. How much do you figure these players left on the table for an assurance that they wouldn't be traded, or at least that they had some control over their desination? Now add that to the current caphit for the team and assess how many players may well not have signed here because there was no cap space. Without NTC's a lot of the guys who you believe should not get one wouldn't have signed here in the first place. Problem solved, right? Does Hamhuis deserve a NTC? Doesn't matter, he likely couldn't have been signed because there was no cap space. The same would hold true for Garrison. Without a NTC, Edler would have asked for more money. Doesn't matter that you (or anyone else) may believe he isn't worth it, he would get that amount from someone. And you're thinking, "Great, let 'em go. The Canucks will use that money to sign a guy who is better!" Maybe, they could. One thing that is often overlooked is that the $4.6 million for Garrison wouldn't just sit there waiting to be used. It would be in the contracts for other guys who are here, who would be demanding more money because they aren't getting a NTC. As a comparison, Dennis Wideman was also available during the same off-season as Garrison. Whether anyone believes one is better than the other or is more deserving of their contract is not at issue here. The point is that they were both being sought out as a valuable UFA. Garrison came here for $4.6 million and a NTC. Wideman chose to go to Calgary for $5.25 million, and a NMC, which would suggest to me that he also left some cash on the table. And would a lack of NTC's mean that players would be easier to move? Maybe, maybe not. Luongo would have had a shorter deal (say only 8 years and the amounts paid during those years), but he would likely still be very hard to trade as his caphit would be so much higher (over $7 million going back to 2010. Keep in mind, teams have been dumping cap these last two years). Same would hold with the Sedins, or Kesler etc. Ironic, ain't it? regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5minutesinthebox Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 well....don't we pick and choose what to respond to. I am very clear in stating that some people will never be happy. ON on hand, it is the core Gillis got from Burke/Nonis Now that it is on a long slide it is all Gillis fault and the team Gillis built Pick your battles., so much flip flopping it looks like a San Jose LA game. But to answer, I see Schroeder, Sauve, Corrado, Laine all on the team currently. And if they're playing in the league they're making a difference. Tanev and Lack werent drafted, but they were picked up by Gillis and his team, and they certainly seem to be making a difference to this team. Nonis/Burke may have put the core together, but what did they ever get out of them? Nothing. Gillis put the complimentary pieces in place that got us within one game of the Cup. There is no arguing that. He also found Lack, Tanev, Santorelli, Stanton, Richardson, Ehrhoff, Malhotra, Hamhuis, Garrison, Torres, Samuelsson, Kassian, Lapierre...now there are some very significant contributors to the Cup run as well as 7 important players on the team currently including 2 of our best defencemen, our future staring goal tender, and 3 excellent value players. Not everything that Gillis has touched turned to gold, but he has not been anywhere near the failure that people like to think. Right now I think the coaching staff is this teams biggest issue. Riding the Sedins for extended minutes in all situations has back fired, as has riding Edler with some of the teams toughest minutes. Its like another poster mentioned, while yes the Sedins and Burrows have gotten older, everyone on this team didnt just all of the sudden lose their ability to play hockey. If players like the Sedins, Burrows, Hansen, Edler, Garrison were all having even average years right now our goal scoring would be significantly better than it was last season because of the contributions we have been getting from our depth guys. Outside of the injuries we have had to deal with, I see the coaching style being the issue that has brought this team to this low point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5minutesinthebox Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I know, right? Stoopid players and their NTC's. Why can't they just learn to take less than their market value to play here, and not kick up a fuss if/when the Canucks want to trade them whenever they wanted? Damned inconvenient. Maybe slavery, or perhaps at the very least indentured servitude could be brought back. On the other hand, take look back over these NTC deals. How much do you figure these players left on the table for an assurance that they wouldn't be traded, or at least that they had some control over their desination? Now add that to the current caphit for the team and assess how many players may well not have signed here because there was no cap space. Without NTC's a lot of the guys who you believe should not get one wouldn't have signed here in the first place. Problem solved, right? Does Hamhuis deserve a NTC? Doesn't matter, he likely couldn't have been signed because there was no cap space. The same would hold true for Garrison. Without a NTC, Edler would have asked for more money. Doesn't matter that you (or anyone else) may believe he isn't worth it, he would get that amount from someone. And you're thinking, "Great, let 'em go. The Canucks will use that money to sign a guy who is better!" Maybe, they could. One thing that is often overlooked is that the $4.6 million for Garrison wouldn't just sit there witing to be used. It would be in the contracts for other guys who are here, who would be demanding more money because they aren't getting a NTC. As a comparison, Dennis Wideman was also available during the same off-season as Garrison. Whether anyone believes one is better than the other or is more deserving of their contract is not at issue here. The point is that they were both being sought out as a valuable UFA. Garrison came here for $4.6 million and a NTC. Wideman chose to go to Calgary for $5.25 million, and a NMC, which would suggest to me that he also left some cash on the table. And would a lack of NTC's mean that players would be easier to move? Maybe, maybe not. Luongo would have had a shorter deal (say only 8 years and the amounts paid during those years), but he would likely still be very hard to trade as his caphit would be so much higher (over $7 million going back to 2010. Keep in mind, teams have been dumping cap these last two years). Same would hold with the Sedins, or Kesler etc. Ironic, ain't it? regards, G. Hey look someone actually get it.. regards 5. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If we Trade Edler to Detriot we better get Mantha back or I wont be too happy. If Edler did go to Detroit, I'd like to see Mantha and a whole lot of other picks and prospects coming back our way. It just sucks that Detroit has a say in what they choose to give up. Factors in favour of a good return: Edler is just getting into his prime, so there's still some upside. He's big, mobile, has shown he can put up some points, plays a physical style and also of great inportance, he has a really reasonable contract with a lot of years left on it. These things argue that you could get your wish. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gollumpus Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Hey look someone actually get it.. regards 5. I'd +1 you, but that would be kind of self-serving on my part.... oh what the heck. regards, G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lui's Knob Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Rebuild youth like the Seahawks and you'll get a competitive champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
messier's_elbow Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 If Edler did go to Detroit, I'd like to see Mantha and a whole lot of other picks and prospects coming back our way. It just sucks that Detroit has a say in what they choose to give up. Factors in favour of a good return: Edler is just getting into his prime, so there's still some upside. He's big, mobile, has shown he can put up some points, plays a physical style and also of great inportance, he has a really reasonable contract with a lot of years left on it. These things argue that you could get your wish. regards, G. I think Mantha with his size and hands would be a great complement to Kassian, Horvat and Shinkaruk. I dont think Edler for Mantha is a stretch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vwnuck Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 I have read about 3 pages of post... omg first off op.. its official.. come on its darren dreger... who for 3 season had bieksa going every where... when they have no news they make it up, nothing is official until its done. half the team have no trade clauses...you think anyone is going to want to come here if the gm is asking them to wave there ntc? the only players that could move are young guys.. but seriously.. they have never been able to pull the trigger at the deadline to get anyone worth while... they are so tight to the cap limit they would have to give up a high paid roster player... booth maybe.. but would you risk trading him as he has been one of the best we have lately... the only thing i could see happening is edler being traded.. else why would they go get raphael diaz? twins kes bieksa luo bur hammer garrison are pretty untouchable.... higgins has been good this year... i would put him on that list.. do they let kassian go? hansen.? but the op already has the team picked out he wants... come on... grow up...before you start throwing the word "dynasty" around how bout we win one cup??!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cold Hard Truth Posted February 6, 2014 Share Posted February 6, 2014 Kesler and Edler to Detroit The Twins + Luongo to Florida Burrows/Hansen/Gaunce -Winnipeg Adding Sheahan,Jurco+Mantha Bjugstad/Huberdeau,Gudbranson E.Kane. rebuild done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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