Burrows' Breath Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Edler to Detroit for Mantha, Smith, and Samuelsson. 4mil and change cap to Canucks, 5mil cap to Wings. Samuelsson is a UFA at seasons end. If anything, that's not enough for Edler. Bare minumum in value that should be obtained for Edler but this package could work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker7 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 If Edler is moved to wings it will be for a hefty return. No way is a guy like edler moved for anything less then a package that includes 3 of the following: Mantha/Nyquist/Abdelkador/Tatat/First rounder/Smith. If anything less edler is going nowhere, guys like him especially for a 5m cap hit don't come around too often and it takes a great return to move them. Now, I think if you take Tatar, Smith, and a 1st, Detroit would listen but something else besides Elder would need to come back as well. This is what I think Holland would actually consider. I could see this: Elder, 2nd for Tatar, Smith, and a 1st That 1st rounder could very likely be a top 10 with Zetterberg out for the season. However, this trade could not happen until after the season because of the cap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker7 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 You make some great points, here! And I can definitely see what you mean about Detroit not being worried about money. are people seriously complaining about how much Helm makes?! That's pretty great production for bottom 6. My question to you is how is he at playing wing? My other thought is, even though he is injured and out for the season, what exactly can Darren Helm do that Mike Santorelli can't? Helm looks better this year than any other. Better scoring touch and all around solid play. However, buyer beware because he is injured far too often. Reminds me of when Kronwall was just coming into the picture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tonimator#19 Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Edler to Detroit : Jurco, 1st, 2nd 2015 Philly: Brayden Schenn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Helm is less than 50% on faceoffs. Can't see a Selke caliber player ever winning or even being close to a Selke with less than 50%. That's why I wanted to know if he can also play wing. But, I mean if you look at it, Santorelli has a better PPG than Helm this season, came to camp in better shape than anyone else on the team, he's from Van so he would take a hometown discount, and his faceoffs are great! Wouldn't Helm be more redundancy? I mean, besides his speed. Speed isn't everything though. Hansen also has lots of speed.... Oh and I forgot to mention...Santorelli can also play wing. Btw, this is not me waving the flag to keep Santorelli in the fold, but saying if that's the way we are going, might as well keep him instead of take Helm off Detroit's hands. If we were to take Helm from them, I would want consistent top 6 production on the wing. Helm has pretty much been above 50% every year except this year. 56.1% in '08/'09. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20082009&gameType=2&team=DET&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll# 51.1% in '09/'10. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20092010&gameType=2&team=DET&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll# 52.6% in '10/'11. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20102011&gameType=2&team=DET&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll# 51.9% in '11/'12. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20112012&gameType=2&team=DET&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll# However, you are right about him never winning a Selke but that's because the voters (see: hockey writers) will always vote for a player that also puts up offensive numbers in addition to stellar defence over a superior defensive forward (ala Kesler over Malhotra in '10/'11). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RustyShackleford Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 I would rather a Edler for Hartnell swap instead of Franzen. Maybe Edler for Hartnell + Mezsaros Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warhippy Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Now, I think if you take Tatar, Smith, and a 1st, Detroit would listen but something else besides Elder would need to come back as well. This is what I think Holland would actually consider. I could see this: Elder, 2nd for Tatar, Smith, and a 1st That 1st rounder could very likely be a top 10 with Zetterberg out for the season. However, this trade could not happen until after the season because of the cap. Tatar is yet another tweener, Smith doesn't really help us with the needs we have now. The only + in all of this is the 1st round pick. We don't need to bring in more fot eh same players we are trying to get rid of. tatar may turn out top 6 dependable in a few years, but we either need help now or to get younger now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Canuck Surfer Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Edler to Detroit for Mantha, Smith, and Samuelsson. 4mil and change cap to Canucks, 5mil cap to Wings. Samuelsson is a UFA at seasons end. If anything, that's not enough for Edler. Bare minumum in value that should be obtained for Edler but this package could work. Mantha, a premium wing prospect. Smith, a talented, but not at that same excitement level as Mantha, and athletic D prospect. Some call him a PMD prospect, but we should not project him as a Letang to push the offense, or Doughty to take over in key moments. But a very good prospect nonetheless. Samuelsson a mere cap dump. I'd take it before Tatar as the key return even though he would be ready sooner. What I want is Smith (who ultimately replaces Edler) and Mantha or Nyquist (this being the key return). Add a Hansen or Helm, a pick, which cap dump to make it work I don't really care... A KEY forward prospect and Smith is the bottom line! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noseforthenet Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Helm has pretty much been above 50% every year except this year. 56.1% in '08/'09. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20082009&gameType=2&team=DET&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll# 51.1% in '09/'10. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20092010&gameType=2&team=DET&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll# 52.6% in '10/'11. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20102011&gameType=2&team=DET&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll# 51.9% in '11/'12. http://www.nhl.com/ice/playerstats.htm?season=20112012&gameType=2&team=DET&position=C&country=&status=&viewName=faceOffPercentageAll# However, you are right about him never winning a Selke but that's because the voters (see: hockey writers) will always vote for a player that also puts up offensive numbers in addition to stellar defence over a superior defensive forward (ala Kesler over Malhotra in '10/'11). Well, if he can be like that, I am for having him here. 2.125 mil over the next two seasons after this one is great for a 3rd line center. You know what I was talking about though, right? Another Moneyball player. We can't keep acquiring them. It's not helping the team get better. Too much redundancy. His numbers are pretty good for a 3rd liner. I really believe it's necessary for him to be able to play the wing here. Bo Horvat is coming down the pipeline an he should be making the team next season or so. If not, someone with speed who is good at faceoffs is good to have for the bottom 6. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burrows' Breath Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Mantha, a premium wing prospect. Smith, a talented, but not at that same excitement level as Mantha, and athletic D prospect. Some call him a PMD prospect, but we should not project him as a Letang to push the offense, or Doughty to take over in key moments. But a very good prospect nonetheless. Samuelsson a mere cap dump. I'd take it before Tatar as the key return even though he would be ready sooner. What I want is Smith (who ultimately replaces Edler) and Mantha or Nyquist (this being the key return). Add a Hansen or Helm, a pick, which cap dump to make it work I don't really care... A KEY forward prospect and Smith is the bottom line! Exactly this. It's Mantha or bust for me. Smith, a 1st, Tatar all great options but we need to go all in for some high end prospects. Mantha is that guy. I think a first back with him would be the best option but having Smith in there and Samuelsson makes the CAP exchange more realistic. Mantha, a 1st and Smith would be the top end asking price. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Well, if he can be like that, I am for having him here. 2.125 mil over the next two seasons after this one is great for a 3rd line center. You know what I was talking about though, right? Another Moneyball player. We can't keep acquiring them. It's not helping the team get better. Too much redundancy. His numbers are pretty good for a 3rd liner. I really believe it's necessary for him to be able to play the wing here. Bo Horvat is coming down the pipeline an he should be making the team next season or so. If not, someone with speed who is good at faceoffs is good to have for the bottom 6. Your point about having too many "middle six" forwards is valid but as I said a page or so back, a line of Higgins-Helm-Hansen would likely be the best two-way, shutdown, 3rd line in the league. I think that definitively makes us a better team and that's also very good usage of $7.125m in cap space. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayRayDown Posted February 17, 2014 Share Posted February 17, 2014 Your point about having too many "middle six" forwards is valid but as I said a page or so back, a line of Higgins-Helm-Hansen would likely be the best two-way, shutdown, 3rd line in the league. I think that definitively makes us a better team and that's also very good usage of $7.125m in cap space. Leaves no room for Horvat net year though unless you put him on Kesler's wing. Sedins-kassian Burrows-Kesler-Horvat Higgins-Helm-Hansen Sestito-richardson-Archibald Kassian would have to be ready to play with the Sedins next season or Horvat will lose his 2nd line spot to Kassian and we'll have to find a 2nd line LW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Leaves no room for Horvat net year though unless you put him on Kesler's wing. Sedins-kassian Burrows-Kesler-Horvat Higgins-Helm-Hansen Sestito-richardson-Archibald Kassian would have to be ready to play with the Sedins next season or Horvat will lose his 2nd line spot to Kassian and we'll have to find a 2nd line LW I'm not sold that Horvat will be ready for more than a 9-game NHL stint next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker7 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Tatar is yet another tweener, Smith doesn't really help us with the needs we have now. The only + in all of this is the 1st round pick. We don't need to bring in more fot eh same players we are trying to get rid of. tatar may turn out top 6 dependable in a few years, but we either need help now or to get younger now. I don't disagree but I am just saying what I think Detroit would be willing to do. If Mantha is a sticking point, then I don't think this deal gets done. If the Canucks desire younger prospects, the Wings would be willing to deal other players. I just don't see any way Mantha or Nyquist get moved. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker7 Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Exactly this. It's Mantha or bust for me. Smith, a 1st, Tatar all great options but we need to go all in for some high end prospects. Mantha is that guy. I think a first back with him would be the best option but having Smith in there and Samuelsson makes the CAP exchange more realistic. Mantha, a 1st and Smith would be the top end asking price. I think you guys are better off trying to push him to a contender at the deadline than Detroit. Teams that think they can win now might give up more if they think Edler nets them a cup. I really don't believe Detroit will pay what you mentioned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I think you guys are better off trying to push him to a contender at the deadline than Detroit. Teams that think they can win now might give up more if they think Edler nets them a cup. I really don't believe Detroit will pay what you mentioned. St Louis, Bos, Pitts, and Col all come to mind as teams that could afford the expected asking price and have need of a top 4 d-man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MayRayDown Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I'm not sold that Horvat will be ready for more than a 9-game NHL stint next season. I don't know if Horvat will learn much more with the london knight though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I don't know if Horvat will learn much more with the london knight though Agreed, but why risk destroying a prospect if he's looking overwhelmed in those 9 games? Look at Scheiffle. He got sent back twice and looks the better for it. Now compare that with Nino Niederrieter... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
5minutesinthebox Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 I don't know if Horvat will learn much more with the london knight though Comets could certainly use him....Gaunce, Horvat, Cassels, Subban, Shinkarik, Fox...they could all be on that team next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Millerdraft Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Comets could certainly use him....Gaunce, Horvat, Cassels, Subban, Shinkarik, Fox...they could all be on that team next year. That's the problem though. Horvat's date of birth makes him ineligible for the AHL next season. It's the NHL or the OHL for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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