The Bookie Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Listened to that Matthias interview earlier. Interesting stuff. He all but came out and said he was completely miserable in Florida. That he wanted (asked for?) a trade at the deadline last year. I don't think it's a stretch to think that had an impact on his mediocre season this year. And we hopefully bought low. I'm excited to see this guy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Listened to that Matthias interview earlier. Interesting stuff. He all but came out and said he was completely miserable in Florida. That he wanted (asked for?) a trade at the deadline last year. I don't think it's a stretch to think that had an impact on his mediocre season this year. And we hopefully bought low. I'm excited to see this guy. He's not the first player to say that Florida is a crap show. They provide their players with little support and guidance. They don't invest into it. He'll be blown away by the facilities and attention his training and physical health will get in Vancouver. That's one thing we do right. All of those who say we can't attract FA forget that this information is shared amongst NHL players. Coming from Florida to Vancouver as a training facility is like leaving the KHL for the NHL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Classic hindsighting - with a blindspot. First of all, JVR was a 6 yr 4.25 millon contract at the time, who was disappointing in Philly, scoring 11 goals in a half season before being dealt. Second, you can't assume that a Schenn deal for JVR would have taken place - so the question is really whether Schenn is a better return than Matthias and Markstrom, and considering that Luke Schenn is likewise a 3.6 million cap hit that isn't quite living up to expectations, I'd have to say that even in hindsight, I'd take this Markstrom, Matthias deal over Schenn, and moreover, the giant elephant in the room that you are selectively ignoring is the question whether Luo would have waived to go to Toronto in the first place. It was reported that he wasn't prepared to waive for Toronto while Florida was a possibility - and his preference was clearly to go where he wound up going. Regardless, Schenn on his own terms is a deal that should have been rejected regardless. Yes it is hindsight after all, it happened in the past but even at the time, JVR was putting up points at better than 0.5 per game as a 22 year old. He has size and was drafted 2nd overall and came off a pretty solid playoff in 2011 and a mediocre playoff in 2012. His cap hit was based on his potential and to be quite honest, he had a lot of potential and with a worst case scenario being a 0.5 pts per game player, the risk was not as bad as you suggest. Moreover his experience playing with Schroeder and the chemistry that they had at world Juniors should have been explored.I personally was stunned when Schenn was traded for JVR and immediately thought about the missed opportunity for us to acquire a big power forward like him. But hey its not your fault, you usually see things a lot later than other people anyway... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coconuts Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'm sad to see Luongo go, but the more I think about it the more I think this deal could really work out for us. It's all up to Markstrom to reach his potential. Matthias isn't a throw in either, I think he'll fit in nicely. Tomorrow should be interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yes it is hindsight after all, it happened in the past but even at the time, JVR was putting up points at better than 0.5 per game as a 22 year old. He has size and was drafted 2nd overall and came off a pretty solid playoff in 2011 and a mediocre playoff in 2012. His cap hit was based on his potential and to be quite honest, he had a lot of potential and with a worst case scenario being a 0.5 pts per game player, the risk was not as bad as you suggest. Moreover his experience playing with Schroeder and the chemistry that they had at world Juniors should have been explored.I personally was stunned when Schenn was traded for JVR and immediately thought about the missed opportunity for us to acquire a big power forward like him. But hey its not your fault, you usually see things a lot later than other people anyway... Anyone in their right mind was shocked CJ - but what you're assuming - and let me clarify your huge blindspot once again - is that a GM like MG, who doesn't in fact have Schenn, would be aware that Philly is making a ridiculous offer like JVR for him. So you have to assume in that position that what you're actually getting is Luke Schenn. But I wouldn't expect you to understand such (not very) advanced logic. Let alone the equally obvious issue whether Luongo would go to Toronto in the first place. So slow down a little, even in hindsight, you're outsmarting yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 What a great way to improve your reputation with the league: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CanucksJay Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Anyone in their right mind was shocked CJ - but what you're assuming - and let me clarify your huge blindspot once again - is that a GM like MG, who doesn't in fact have Schenn, would be aware that Philly is making a ridiculous offer like JVR for him. So you have to assume in that position that what you're actually getting is Luke Schenn. But I wouldn't expect you to understand such (not very) advanced logic. I guess there are no such things as three way trades in the league because all the GMs have blinders on and only know how to deal with one team's demands. Also, I love the way you make up speculation like lu wouldn't waive for Toronto.. Yes, that's why MG stated he was working on a deal until the final moments with Nonis because he loves to waste his time spinning wheels when there is a tight deadline. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 What a great way to improve your reputation with the league: Heffy… have you found your new goat already? He hasn't played a game for us yet. Once Edler is gone you'll need to reinvent your targets of ridiculous ire. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I guess there are no such things as three way trades in the league because all the GMs have blinders on and only know how to deal with one team's demands. Also, I love the way you make up speculation like lu wouldn't waive for Toronto.. Yes, that's why MG stated he was working on a deal until the final moments with Nonis because he loves to waste his time spinning wheels when there is a tight deadline. The speculation that Luo wouldn't waive to Toronto wasn't mine - it was reported by the Province that Luo asked to steer clear of TO in favour of the possibility of a Florida deal. The additional irony here is that you are at a loss why Philly would deal JVR for Schenn - something that probably wouldn't have occured to....well, hardly anyone. That you expect this 3 way in hindsight is really pretty silly, and dependent again, on whether Luo would have accepted that deal - as early as at the draft - something else you are forgetting. In addition, what you are also ignoring are the subsequent cap issues - even with the benefit of your hindsight. You can pretend to know better seasons later, but you're taking a number of thing out of context, and regardless, what hindsighting amounts to is intellectual dishonesty. In your efforts to show that you're smarter than MG, what you're accomplishing is anything but. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Heffy Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Heffy… have you found your new goat already? He hasn't played a game for us yet. Once Edler is gone you'll need to reinvent your targets of ridiculous ire. Never liked him since that dive-fest. That performance made a mockery of the sport on an international stage. Even Edler only makes a mockery of the position of defenseman. Can't wait until that pylon is gone, and not happy to see Markstrom as a Canuck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
viking mama Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Yeah mama, I'm more than pleased with this deal. I'd be interested in hearing what bonafide goal scorer to two you were expecting as a return in a Luongo deal. Btw Matthias had 14 goals in 48 games last year playing tweener minutes - that translates to a 24 goal season over 82. Not bad for a 'fourth liner'. I get that you're pleased with the deal & why. But come on! I'm just sayin'...with this team where it's at presently - we could ALL be much, much happier. that was answered in the Gillis interview - Gallagher asked - Melanson is staying. Yes - I heard the question asked of MG.... & he said that Melanson hadn't signed an extension yet...but that he thinks that Melanson still wants to be here. There had previously been talk & speculation that Melanson would want to return back east. So - this is not a surity. I hope that the op to work with these 2 really young stud goal-tenders...is just too intriguing to pass upon. Even so - I will feel better once his contract extension is announced & done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldnews Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I get that you're pleased with the deal & why. But come on! I'm just sayin'...with this team where it's at presently - we could ALL be much, much happier. That doesn't make a great deal of sense to me - and I'm not talking about the state of this season or the franchise - I'm talking about this particular deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
a Fool Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'm just glad the Luo saga is over. Lu won a gold and goes where he wanted to; Nucks get a younger bottom 6 player, goalie prospect (I still consider a 24 y/o goalie a prospect), and some salary to work with next season. GL Lu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stick-in-Rink Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'll start off by saying it was pretty sad to hear the trade at first, considering Lu was my favourite Canuck and was the reason I started following hockey. But after my emotions subsided and I looked at the trade, I was genuinely happy for Lu, it was the prime place he wanted to be all along, and amidst another brewing goalie controversy I don't know if he would be willing to go through all of that again. And I don't think I could handle seeing him go through another one either.. The fact that not many teams were willing to give up anything last season for Lu, and in the trade we got both Markstrom and Matthias is a pretty fair deal. Obviously no deal was going to really be on par with Lu's value, but his contract severely weighed him down, and we got 2 decent pieces that could end up playing crucial roles. Matthias seems very motivated to thrive in a Canadian market. Sounded like he was not very fond of the coaching in Florida, and felt like he had no one to impress. If he's all for the change then we should see some good progress with him on the Canucks, still relatively young (26 not too bad). Just hearing his comments about how he was bummed he wasn't included in the trade at first, but after was completely ecstatic really excited me as well.... any other player ever been this happy to come to Vancouver? He knows he'll have a large fanbase watching him and he has something to prove. As for Markstrom, he hasn't had the most impressive showing in the NHL, but has impressive numbers in the AHL, and supposedly has all the potential to become that franchise goal-tender, so there's nothing that will really tell us where this goes besides time. Him and Lack know each other, and have the Swedish connections so that will bode well. Lu left a legacy in Van, whether some regarded him as horrid, or others as a god, he's certainly left his mark on this city for a long time and will be remembered for being the best goal-tender in franchise history. You know he'll be happy to be surrounded by his family, encompassed by a care-free media environment and sunshine and beaches, hopefully he has a stressless rest of his career. He's probably lost a couple years off of his life from the drama of the past 2 years. It sucks it had to end on a sour note with being benched for the Heritage Classic (not sure if this trade was heating up by then or not) and the fans chanting "We Want Lu" with him leaving a game after... It's been the trade every Canucks fan (and Luongo) has been waiting for, for 2 years and it's surreal to think it FINALLY happened. Goodbye Lui, most of us will cherish your time with us in Van, and never forget how close we were with you in getting the Cup as well as the goofy guy you were deep down that we all loved. (Jeez, sounds like I'm breaking up with an ex) End of an era. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 I'll start off by saying it was pretty sad to hear the trade at first, considering Lu was my favourite Canuck and was the reason I started following hockey. But after my emotions subsided and I looked at the trade, I was genuinely happy for Lu, it was the prime place he wanted to be all along, and amidst another brewing goalie controversy I don't know if he would be willing to go through all of that again. And I don't think I could handle seeing him go through another one either.. The fact that not many teams were willing to give up anything last season for Lu, and in the trade we got both Markstrom and Matthias is a pretty fair deal. Obviously no deal was going to really be on par with Lu's value, but his contract severely weighed him down, and we got 2 decent pieces that could end up playing crucial roles. Matthias seems very motivated to thrive in a Canadian market. Sounded like he was not very fond of the coaching in Florida, and felt like he had no one to impress. If he's all for the change then we should see some good progress with him on the Canucks, still relatively young (26 not too bad). Just hearing his comments about how he was bummed he wasn't included in the trade at first, but after was completely ecstatic really excited me as well.... any other player ever been this happy to come to Vancouver? He knows he'll have a large fanbase watching him and he has something to prove. As for Markstrom, he hasn't had the most impressive showing in the NHL, but has impressive numbers in the AHL, and supposedly has all the potential to become that franchise goal-tender, so there's nothing that will really tell us where this goes besides time. Him and Lack know each other, and have the Swedish connections so that will bode well. Lu left a legacy in Van, whether some regarded him as horrid, or others as a god, he's certainly left his mark on this city for a long time and will be remembered for being the best goal-tender in franchise history. You know he'll be happy to be surrounded by his family, encompassed by a care-free media environment and sunshine and beaches, hopefully he has a stressless rest of his career. He's probably lost a couple years off of his life from the drama of the past 2 years. It sucks it had to end on a sour note with being benched for the Heritage Classic (not sure if this trade was heating up by then or not) and the fans chanting "We Want Lu" with him leaving a game after... It's been the trade every Canucks fan (and Luongo) has been waiting for, for 2 years and it's surreal to think it FINALLY happened. Goodbye Lui, most of us will cherish your time with us in Van, and never forget how close we were with you in getting the Cup as well as the goofy guy you were deep down that we all loved. (Jeez, sounds like I'm breaking up with an ex) End of an era. Nailed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Very well said Stick in Rink, +1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theminister Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 800+ pages for trade speculation but only 22 for the actual trade. What does this say about us? / Don't bother answering if you don't want to, I don't really care. It was a metaphysical question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Bookie Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 That we like to argue more than agree, like the rest of humanity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
infinitecarnage Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Easton76 Posted March 5, 2014 Share Posted March 5, 2014 Not sure if this has been posted but check out this goal by Matthias! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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